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Will SQ Exercise The 777-300ER Options?  
User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1451 posts, RR: 12
Posted (6 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 7154 times:

In 2004, SQ ordered 18 777-300 ER's with an option of another 13. In 2006, they ordered 20 787-9's with purchase rights of another 20. I believe the delivery of the 18 77W's by Boeing is almost complete. Given the 787 delay, the 744's on-going retirement from SQ's fleet and the well-publicised A380 delays, what are the chances of SQ exercising the 13 77W options?

By the way, how do they like the 77W's despite the 2 IFSD's they've had?


If you're going through hell, keep going
57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21590 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 7129 times:

SQ held on to some of their 777 options for years before finally converting them to 77Ws and optioning more, so who knows? I think with the delays in the 787 and the early status of the A350 being unknown, they may take some if they decide they need more lift. But right now they are still taking their current order and the A380s.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1451 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 7096 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
But right now they are still taking their current order and the A380s.

True, and still continuing to retire the 744. Since the A380 was a couple of years delay, I think they're in a crunch of long-haul aircraft considering they have added a few routes recently (IAH and the 2nd ZRH flight comes to mind). I'd think unless they had over-compensated for the A380 and 787 delays, they'll be running short soon.



If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7007 posts, RR: 63
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 7097 times:



Quoting Norcal773 (Thread starter):
I believe the delivery of the 18 77W's by Boeing is almost complete.

Close. I think they have received 14 so far.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21590 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 7064 times:

According to Boeing it's 19 77Ws that SQ ordered, and as of the end of March they had taken 14. Did they have any delivered in April?


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1451 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 7049 times:



Quoting PM (Reply 3):
Close. I think they have received 14 so far.

What engines do the 77W's have PM?  duck 

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
According to Boeing it's 19 77Ws that SQ ordered, and as of the end of March they had taken 14.

SEATTLE, Dec. 09, 2004 -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] and Singapore Airlines (SIA) have finalized an order for 18 Boeing 777-300ER (Extended Range) jetliners that makes the airline the world's largest 777 customer and ties the record for the largest order of the 777-300ER.

That's what the Boeing website reported back then, there must be a goof-up somewhere.



If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 7033 times:



Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 5):
What engines do the 77W's have

GEs are only ones available for 77W.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7007 posts, RR: 63
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 7026 times:



Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 5):
What engines do the 77W's have PM?

The wrong ones!  Big grin


User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1451 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 7016 times:



Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 6):
GEs are only ones available for 77W.

I know, it was a shot at PM.  biggrin 



If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7007 posts, RR: 63
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 7003 times:



Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 8):
I know, it was a shot at PM.

A cheap one!


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6959 times:

SQ ordered 18 777-300ERs and exercised 1 option from a previous 777 order bringing the total to 19. 9V-SWP was delivered two weeks ago, bringing the active subfleet to 15. SQ's 16th 777-300ER, 9V-SWQ, is due for delivery this week. SQ's 19th 777-300ER is due for delivery in Q3.

Obviously, with each new delay to any of the 787, A350, or WhaleJet programmes, the probability that SQ will exercise 777-300ER options increases. The severe capacity shortage has eased somewhat over the last year, but SQ are still short of aircraft.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6959 times:

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 2):

True, and still continuing to retire the 744. Since the A380 was a couple of years delay, I think they're in a crunch of long-haul aircraft considering they have added a few routes recently (IAH and the 2nd ZRH flight comes to mind). I'd think unless they had over-compensated for the A380 and 787 delays, they'll be running short soon.

A few things...

1)World economy is slowing down (much like the stock of your old company ), which might put a "crimper" on expansion.
2)We don't know (neither does Boeing with a 100% certainty) about production ramp up. SQ might not have their entire tranche of B787's late (if any).



Quoting PM (Reply 9):
Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 8):
I know, it was a shot at PM.

A cheap one!

Given they are the only "game" in town, those monsters probably aren't too cheap (unlike the stock price of NorCal773's old company)..

[Edited 2008-04-29 21:47:05]

[Edited 2008-04-29 21:48:02]


"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineNicholaschee From Australia, joined Oct 2005, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6940 times:



Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 5):
SEATTLE, Dec. 09, 2004 -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] and Singapore Airlines (SIA) have finalized an order for 18 Boeing 777-300ER (Extended Range) jetliners that makes the airline the world's largest 777 customer and ties the record for the largest order of the 777-300ER.

That's what the Boeing website reported back then, there must be a goof-up somewhere.

SQ converted one of its 772 orders to a 77W.


User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1451 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6883 times:



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 11):
much like the stock of your old company

Talk of a cheap shot! lol

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 11):
which might put a "crimper" on expansion.

Even without considering 'expansion', they'll still need some planes if they stick to the 744 and older 772 retirement schedule which is planned to span through 2010.



If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8517 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6284 times:
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Quoting Norcal773 (Thread starter):
In 2004, SQ ordered 18 777-300 ER's with an option of another 13.

19 orders plus 12 options for 31 77W for SINGAPORE AIRLINES.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6231 times:



Quoting Nicholaschee (Reply 12):
SQ converted one of its 772 orders to a 77W.

No, the odd one was not a conversion. It was the exercise of the last remaining option for an unspecific 777 obtained together with an earlier 777-200ER order.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 14):
19 orders plus 12 options for 31 77W for SINGAPORE AIRLINES.

Norcal773 had it right. 18 orders plus 13 options for the 777-300ER, plus the exercise of one earlier option.


User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5553 times:



Quoting Norcal773 (Thread starter):
By the way, how do they like the 77W's despite the 2 IFSD's they've had?

As far as I know, SQ absolutely loves the 77Ws. It's the perfect aircraft for them and the routes they operate it on. And 2 IFSDs isn't that bad considering the amount they have now in their fleet and having had them over a year now.



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2413 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5372 times:



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 16):
And 2 IFSDs isn't that bad considering the amount they have now in their fleet and having had them over a year now.

Also, SQ and AF 777-300ER IFSDs seem to be blown out of proportion by the media. So far, the world's largest operator of 777-300ERs, Emirates, has had no (publicized) IFSDs.

And, to clear up things:

SQ placed an order for 18 777-300ERs with 13 options. At the time of placing the order, they already had an outstanding order/option for 1 777-200ER which was then converted to a 777-300ER, bring firm orders to 19, and options still at 13.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21590 posts, RR: 59
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5366 times:



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 16):
And 2 IFSDs isn't that bad considering the amount they have now in their fleet and having had them over a year now.

2 IFSD's in 18 total months of owning 77Ws (an average of 7 aircraft over that time).

7x14x28x18x2=120k engine hours conservatively calculated. 2 IFSDs is within spec, though not stellar.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1451 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5226 times:



Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 17):
So far, the world's largest operator of 777-300ERs, Emirates, has had no (publicized) IFSDs.

I was under the impression AF is the world's largest 77W operator!



If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21590 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5221 times:



Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 19):
I was under the impression AF is the world's largest 77W operator!

yep. ek has fewer than many carriers.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8467 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5062 times:



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 10):
he severe capacity shortage has eased somewhat over the last year, but SQ are still short of aircraft.

Don't forget that there are 25 A330s coming.


User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13745 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4992 times:



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 16):
As far as I know, SQ absolutely loves the 77Ws

They love the B77Ws. They don't love General Electric and they don't love Boeing given GE exclusivity which now looks even more ridiculous from an airline viewpoint than before.



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4993 posts, RR: 41
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4867 times:
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Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 22):
They love the B77Ws. They don't love General Electric and they don't love Boeing given GE exclusivity which now looks even more ridiculous from an airline viewpoint than before.

I am sure they do. I also "love" them, but fortunately I do not have to pay the bill to acquire them Big grin. About not liking the fact that GE was given the exclusive rights for delivering the engines for this type of plane; I agree. Competition should be there, than customers have a choice of engine. But maybe estimations about the sales success were too low and maybe they did not believe that two or three engine makers could profitably develop and deliver the required (expensive) engine technology. Remember that those engines were ground-braking at the time. And they are still the largest engines around.

To be fair to Boeing and GE I must add that Airbus did the same with the A340-500/600 program. There Rolls Royce was given the exclusive engine rights. (Sorry PM, I like RR a bit better than GE on this too, but fairness required me to state this fact Big grin ).


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4838 times:



Quoting EPA001 (Reply 23):
Rolls Royce was given the exclusive engine rights.

Wasn't that by default (no other engines availble, ie GE did not want to develop an engine for it like RR did). Or am I mistaken?

Of course, the entire a340 line has exclusive engines, either CFM or RR. As does the a350, but that is again by default.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 11):
2)We don't know (neither does Boeing with a 100% certainty) about production ramp up. SQ might not have their entire tranche of B787's late (if any).

Now that Monarch and RJ are talking about a delivery delay of up to 30 months, it's looking more and more that the production ramp up is not going as planned  Sad

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 13):
Even without considering 'expansion', they'll still need some planes if they stick to the 744 and older 772 retirement schedule which is planned to span through 2010.

The 772 will be replaced by the a333's IIRC. What about the 773's? I assume those will be replaced after the 772's (all non ER). What aircraft will replace those. I know they are still pretty new, but by the time the 744's and 772's are replaced, it will be time for those to go too (by SQ standards). Maybe more 77W's?



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
25 EPA001 : I am not informed enough about the history of the development process on the A340-500/600 series to know if GE was not allowed to offer an engine, or
26 Zvezda : SQ have 19, not 25, A330-300s due for delivery starting the end of this year, to be leased for 5-6 years. Most of them will be replacing SQ's earlies
27 Qantas744ER : All of SQ's 772s are ER's but some of them are operated with the Trent 892 engine downrated to the trent 884, this is only a software thrust downgrad
28 RobK : 9V-SWQ will be landing at Singapore in a couple of hours. R
29 PM : PM rolls up his sleeves... Actually, the two programmes ended up with single-source engines by quite different routes. They weren't "given" anything.
30 EPA001 : I agree with you PM. Thanks for rolling up your sleeves and informing us about this topic!
31 FlyingClrs727 : Intstead of developing them as A340's, they should have developed them as A330's. A couple of GE-90's would have given an A330-600 much better perfor
32 EA772LR : I guess in the end, it was a smart move by PW to stay away from the 345/6 as these planes haven't exactly been the hottest sellers, and with more tha
33 YULWinterSkies : Is there a need to replace the 773 to begin with? I am not too familiar with SQ route network but if they use those for short/medium haul routes, the
34 The Coachman : Slightly off topic, but does anyone "in-the-know" at SQ know whether the 744's currently flown 2x daily on the SYD-SIN and vv route are going to be re
35 Singapore_Air : It doesn't look like it at the moment no, but all plans are getting more fluid by the month as Singapore Airlines evaluates and re-evaluates routes d
36 Norcal773 : It's over-kill to replace the 773 with the 77W. Like Zvezda said, the A333's will replace some of he older 773's even though I am not sure which is m
37 Kappel : Thanks for the info, didn't know that. I thought the regional 772's were 77A's. Agreed. One would almost forget about PW (I hope Lightsaber doesn't r
38 PM : Indeed. PW probably don't regret their decision and it handed RR 100% of a not very big market. Had they competed they'd both have lost heavily. Actu
39 Ikramerica : SQ is a bit deceptive on their website, because Q744ER is right. According to Boeing, they delivered 46 77Es to SQ, 12 773s and 14 of 19 77Ws. No 77A
40 PM : How so? Because one airline misused a batch of 77Es? And how high "should" 77A sales have been?
41 Post contains images Imiakhtar : As a side note, RR developed scaled up variants of the Trent 800. RR first demonstrated a scaled up Trent 800 in January 1994 at a world record thrus
42 PM : I'm not sure these two statements sit comfortably together.
43 The Coachman : LOL Cheaper than CX for the itinerary I wanted to fly. Being a QF FF member I normally don't go SQ. I was really hoping for a 77W but SQ's stupid sch
44 Imiakhtar : Apologies, they do seem to contradict each other don't they. I guess the point I was trying to make is that the Trent 500 was relatively easy to deve
45 PM : No problem! And I think we agree. At worst, the Trent 500 will have kept production lines and cash flow moving while bigger and better things (Trent
46 EPA001 : Well you sure are right about that. As yourself, I am happy about these developments . Though I am also happy with the new developments at GE or any
47 OldAeroGuy : Maybe they already have. Boeing has an Unannounced Customer for 10 773ER's placed on 10 March 2008.
48 Zvezda : Do SQ have any history of placing unannounced orders? As far as I can recall, SQ have always announced their orders promptly.
49 Norcal773 : Remain number one??? Isn't GE taking them to school by a mile? As much as I would want them to be SQ's, I highly doubt it because per Zvezda said, SQ
50 Zvezda : I would rather see Airbus order more 787s or A350s (which eventually they will), but the timing of their availability may drive SQ to exercise 777-30
51 Norcal773 : You mean SQ? I gotta agree, they'll need to order something soon since the A330's leave the fleet in 2013 and right now the aircraft they can get the
52 OldAeroGuy : Could be wrong, but I believe the initial SQ 773ER order spend some time as being unannounced.
53 Jacobin777 : Or extend the leases on them for a while longer.
54 Post contains links Zvezda : Yes, thank you. Yes, SQ currently have options for 6 WhaleJets, 13 777-300ERs, 20 787s, and 20 A350s. SQ almost certainly have delivery slots secured
55 Ikramerica : That's what I thought. I thought generally SQ announces and then books soon after, not the other way around…
56 PM : RR are not "No.1" and it was only a cheeky joke on my part. (Though ask me again in about five year's time... ) And, yes, GE are still ahead. But...
57 MotorHussy : Yes, but still got a chuckle out of me as did your answer.
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