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Merger UA & US Airways May Announce Merger Soon #2  
User currently offlineModerators From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 513 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 28144 times:
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As the previous thread, Merger: UA And US Airways May Announce Merger Soon, has hit 280 replies please continue the discussion here in Part 2. Thank you


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171 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 28141 times:

So when we left off we were talking about how the TATL network would be affected. I think that PHL will lose a lot of its TATL network because of the overlap at IAD. IAD has a lot of O&D for Europe and Ireland could be served either on UA metal or via the EI codeshare. CLT could gain some TATL flights as well. I wonder if the new carrier would work with B6?


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User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 28110 times:



Quoting CV880 (Reply 276):
As for Caribbean/Latin American routes, the Hub works now with what LCC has now, so why move it to IAD?

Sure, but if it would work better at IAD, why not move it?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 28056 times:

This would be a nightmare merger. The unions at both these airlines are strongly anti-mangement (sometimes for good reason and I'm anti-union). US Airways is still having a lot of labor strife with its labor groups. And United is starting contract negotiations with most of its groups because contract expire next year. Best of luck with this ill-advised effort.

A combined airline would have to dump hubs at PHX and LAS. The hubs for the west would be SFO, LAX and DEN. PHX and LAS would have a lot of spoke flights but no hub status. CLT is history, IAD is further expanded. DCA becomes a spoke, but not much more (anti-trust/monopoly issues with IAD). PHL becomes another strong spoke but de-emphasized as a hub. LGA continues as a gold mine for UA/US.

Tons of layoffs proposed. Congress and labor objects. Merger is delayed until either (God help us) Clinton or Obama is elected and kills the deal. Why waste your time, United??? Work on cutting costs and improving your airline, not merging.


User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 27941 times:



Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 3):
This would be a nightmare merger. The unions at both these airlines are strongly anti-mangement (sometimes for good reason and I'm anti-union). US Airways is still having a lot of labor strife with its labor groups. And United is starting contract negotiations with most of its groups because contract expire next year. Best of luck with this ill-advised effort.

A combined airline would have to dump hubs at PHX and LAS. The hubs for the west would be SFO, LAX and DEN. PHX and LAS would have a lot of spoke flights but no hub status. CLT is history, IAD is further expanded. DCA becomes a spoke, but not much more (anti-trust/monopoly issues with IAD). PHL becomes another strong spoke but de-emphasized as a hub. LGA continues as a gold mine for UA/US.

Tons of layoffs proposed. Congress and labor objects. Merger is delayed until either (God help us) Clinton or Obama is elected and kills the deal. Why waste your time, United??? Work on cutting costs and improving your airline, not merging.

I'm a little on the fence about the merger but I think your opinion is most realistic (although I disagree with your political views  Smile ). It is going to be interesting to see what happens once DL/NW goes through (if it does).



2013 World Series Champions!
User currently offlineRyeFly From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1396 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 27682 times:

Everyone seems to think that PHX and LAS would be dumped so why not try and sell US-west to a third party and United keeps US-east? If it can't be sold at a decent price, then go through the expense of trying to uproot everyone and integrate it somewhere else in their system. Everyone already knows the west pilots contracts are separate from the east so it shouldn't be too difficult to make a split. I don't know, I am just thinking out loud here.

User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 27561 times:

I didn't read the last thread at all so some of this may be repeat observations. But it's amazing to how close US Airways is to repeating its own fairly disastrous past.

US Airways was originally Allegheny, which purchased Lake Central and Mohawk, became US Air, purchased Pacific Southwest, Trump Shuttle, Piedmont, became US Airways and then merged with America West. All of these mergers arguably weakened the carrier significantly because of a cultural mis-mash and an extremely diverse fleet.

Now, aren't America West pilots still on their old AWA-ALPA contract? Wouldn't this force the new carrier to deal with merging three contracts: US Airways East, US Airways West and United. Doesn't seem like a good idea, especially considering that US Airways pilots were unhappy enough to dump ALPA.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 27517 times:



Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 4):
I'm a little on the fence about the merger but I think your opinion is most realistic (although I disagree with your political views ). It is going to be interesting to see what happens once DL/NW goes through (if it does).

even those who don't like mergers say there is very little doubt that DL/NW will go through. Compared with every other possible combination - even the AA/CO alliance - DL/NW has so little antitrust, regulatory, or political problems that it will almost certainly go through.

What this all means is that DL will move very quickly to take business that UA carries to Asia outside of Japan which will put UA in an even bigger world of hurt. It was said that part of UA's problems in 2001 were because they were so focused on trying to merge with US that they failed to run the business.

It's also interesting thatParker managed to scoop up US (east, the original) when it became apparent that HP was no longer a viable airline. Now he's pushing to merge with UA so he can dump the remnants of the original airline he allowed to become unable to defend itself.

You do have to scratch your head watching the airline business.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25405 posts, RR: 86
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 27432 times:
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Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 3):
This would be a nightmare merger.

For once, you and I agree. It may, however, be inevitable.

Mr. Tilton has backed himself into a corner. He has hitched himself and he airline to the merger star and watched as all other potential candidates melt away.

Now he's left with the one that's been there all along, the only one that might want to merge with United. But I hope Mr. Parker is very, very coy here. The only possibility of it working is with him calling all the shots, with Mr. Tilton (and Mr. Tague) taking their money and running far away.

I hope that Mr. Parker learned a lot from his previous merger attempt, the one that should have happened - US/Delta - before it got snookered by Mr. Grinstein's ego and financial sleight of hand.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 27394 times:



Quoting RyeFly (Reply 5):
Everyone seems to think that PHX and LAS would be dumped so why not try and sell US-west to a third party and United keeps US-east? If it can't be sold at a decent price, then go through the expense of trying to uproot everyone and integrate it somewhere else in their system. Everyone already knows the west pilots contracts are separate from the east so it shouldn't be too difficult to make a split. I don't know, I am just thinking out loud here.

Hmm. WN anyone? They have a large presence at PHX and LAS. The East Coast will cause some problems but I think UA will benefit from it.



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User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 27337 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 8):

I hope that Mr. Parker learned a lot from his previous merger attempt, the one that should have happened - US/Delta - before it got snookered by Mr. Grinstein's ego and financial sleight of hand.

when you make statements like that, it proves you can't possibly see reality. There is no way, Grinstein or not, that US/DL would have been approved because of overlap, layoffs, and the US/HP merger which was even less developed at this point a year ago. You can speculate all you want but US/DL was a business proposition based on testosterone and no viable business plan and it was shot to pieces in very little time. The fact that UA and US are trying to do the same thing that was shot down 7 years ago shows how uncreative their management teams are.

Further, it sure is lookng like Grinstein won anyway since many speculated that he was the one who envisioned a DL/NW merger, guided both airlines through BK, and then picked the executive team in order to make it happen. Grinstein is far smaller than anything UA or US could hope to have. The fact that DL's future seems set as the world's largest airline in an industry with chaos all around seems pretty strong evidence Grinstein knew what he was doing.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 27336 times:



Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 9):
Hmm. WN anyone?

WN has no use for facilities for another 300 flights at PHX or LAS, and aren't LAS gates common-use, anyway?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6002 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 27215 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 11):
WN has no use for facilities for another 300 flights at PHX or LAS, and aren't LAS gates common-use, anyway?
The new terminal might, but I always thought that US had their own concourse(s) and WN had their own....the gates might be CUTE thought.

I'm not so sure that a UA/US combination would want to give up all of PHX, its already a rather large metropolitan area that is growing quickly. I could see them reducing flights but turning PHX into a sort of reliever/O&D hub for DEN/LAX/SFO. I would think that LAS is probably toast as a hub though thought, maybe keeping a few flights to some of the major (non hub cities.)

[Edited 2008-04-30 19:11:33]


Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineWunalaYann From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2839 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 27178 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 10):
he fact that UA and US are trying to do the same thing that was shot down 7 years ago shows how uncreative their management teams are.

Or maybe it shows how much the industry has changed since.

I am not saying they are not uncreative, but the environment plays a big role in the changes (or un-changes) in strategies.

Again, I am not a huge fan of these mega-mergers, and I hope that new, more flexible cooperation agreements will see the light of day (such as CO, AA & BA, if anything goes ahead there). There is plenty of ground to cover between till-death competition and merger.

 Smile


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25405 posts, RR: 86
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 27094 times:
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Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 10):
You can speculate all you want but US/DL was a business proposition based on testosterone and no viable business plan and it was shot to pieces in very little time.

The shooting down of it was certainly based on testosterone - Mr. Grinstein's ego - together with the magic tricks of the market cap.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9555 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 27035 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 8):
I hope that Mr. Parker learned a lot from his previous merger attempt, the one that should have happened - US/Delta - before it got snookered by Mr. Grinstein's ego and financial sleight of hand.

Why should it have happend?
ATL vs. CLT
JFK vs. PHL
PHX/LAS vs. SLC.

What would be the point of a merger? DL was in BK? That was mergeing just to merge. Mariner I mostly agree with what you say but how in the world do you think DL/US was a good idea?

BTW even if he would have got past The great Gerry Grinstein the DOJ would have shot his dumba** down in a heart beat. How was it his ego that stop a merger that was a one way ticket to Chap. 7?

sorry to get OT.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 10):
The fact that DL's future seems set as the world's largest airline in an industry with chaos all around seems pretty strong evidence Grinstein knew what he was doing.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

Quoting Mariner (Reply 8):
Now he's left with the one that's been there all along, the only one that might want to merge with United. But I hope Mr. Parker is very, very coy here. The only possibility of it working is with him calling all the shots, with Mr. Tilton (and Mr. Tague) taking their money and running far away.

If that is what happens then UA's BOD is very stupid. Parker can't even get his sh*t together at US/HP which is half the size of UA. Add them together with him as CEO i would give it 2 or 3 years then they will be back in BK.



yep.
User currently offlineBillReid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 1015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 27011 times:

regardless, both Parker and Tilton want a merger. So the answer is we will get a merger.

whether it will be a good merger or not seams highly irrelevant at this point.

If two people want to get into bed together, then its most likely going to happen. their however is no guaranty for "good sex" though, just sex. so the real question is after this marriage of sorts what the family will look like?
My guess is that if UA and US are going to screw around and mate, I sure hope they use "birth-control" because we could end up with something awful ugly that will probably end up standing in the proverbial welfare line.



Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 26976 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 15):
If that is what happens then UA's BOD is very stupid. Parker can't even get his sh*t together at US/HP which is half the size of UA. Add them together with him as CEO i would give it 2 or 3 years then they will be back in BK.

Amen.

He's already in over his head as it is, and I shudder to think what he would do with United.

He has already largely trashed the premium-/business-oriented East's service and "Tempefied" it as some Easties like to say. It would be disgusting to see him do the same with a once-great name like United, particularly in some of the markets that United serves in Asia.

I completely concur that if they meld these two companies into one gigantic Frankenstein, the combined airline would have a very good shot and re-entering bankruptcy court within a few years, and if Parker is at the helm, I'd say that likelihood increases exponentially. Perhaps it could be avoided, but only time will tell.

Scary, scary thoughts.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25405 posts, RR: 86
Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 26974 times:
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Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 15):
How was it his ego that stop a merger that was a one way ticket to Chap. 7?

I called the shooting down of it the day the offer was announced. No one was looking at the psychology of it - Mr. Grinstein's psychology - which, for me, was the critical factor.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 15):
the DOJ would have shot his dumba** down in a heart beat.

That's a bit revisionist. Certainly, it would have been difficult, but Delta/NWA ain't gonna be easy.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 15):
If that is what happens then UA's BOD is very stupid.

It wouldn't be the first time in history that's happened. Remember the "interim CEO", before Mr. Tilton?

The one who was appointed when he was 69 and had to retire at 70, because United articles dictate that.  Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4643 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 26932 times:

Hmm, I wonder if we strap these two boat anchors together do you think they will float..


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User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9234 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 26882 times:

I read about this in today's Tribune Review, and the article essentially says fat chance of this getting anywhere...


Quote:
A research report from Calyon Securities analyst Ray Neidl called prospects of a United-US Airways merger "a long shot."

The rest of the article is at:
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/business/s_564969.html



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25405 posts, RR: 86
Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 26602 times:
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Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 10):
The fact that DL's future seems set as the world's largest airline in an industry with chaos all around seems pretty strong evidence Grinstein knew what he was doing.

Only if you believe that "biggest" is, by defintion, superior. But "biggest" is not immune to high fuel prices, for example

I have a great affection for non-dominant companies. Even before the iPod came along, I did extremely well out of my Apple shares - and the Mac has never been the biggest seller among computers.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3294 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 26559 times:

Quoting RyeFly (Reply 5):
so why not try and sell US-west to a third party and United keeps US-east? If it can't be sold at a decent price,

What do you mean US-West and US-East? That is impossible since they are ONE airline with ONE operating certificate. With all due respect, the suggestion of US Airways being divied up is simply assinine. Just because there are some yet-to-be integrated workgroups does not mean they are two different airlines. Imagine if Northwest tried to sell of Republic last year! United operates a loss-leader called Ted, but because Ted operates under the UA operating certificate, they can't simply sell them off. Now, enter jetBlue, United could buy them up for their operating certificate and merge Ted into jetBlue and Voila, you have another airline to sell off to the 'third party' you were talking about.

[Edited 2008-04-30 21:08:13]


.......
User currently offlineUSAIRWAYS321 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1848 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 26446 times:



Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 22):
What do you mean US-West and US-East? That is impossible since they are ONE airline with ONE operating certificate.

On paper, but definitely not in reality.


User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2687 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 26446 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 15):
If that is what happens then UA's BOD is very stupid. Parker can't even get his sh*t together at US/HP which is half the size of UA. Add them together with him as CEO i would give it 2 or 3 years then they will be back in BK.

BK? They'll go Chapter 11 if they're lucky. Chapter 7 is more likely IMO. With Dougweiser at the helm, UA will go down faster than the Titanic did. That guy shouldn't run an airline. Just look what he did to US - he took the very few remaining decent attributes East had and destroyed the airline.

[Edited 2008-04-30 21:16:59]

25 Mariner : Yep, just look what he did. US was in Chapter 11 for the second time in two years - and no one wanted it. It is doubtful it would have survived - wit
26 PanAm330 : They survived, sure. But at what cost? US' finer parts (like the entire east coast market, most notably DCA/LGA) could've been picked apart by other
27 Post contains images Mariner : So - you are saying you'd rather they had not survived? That all those people should have lost their jobs? mariner[Edited 2008-04-30 21:29:47]
28 FiveMileFinal : Lol. Seriously. Through some force of sheer will they'll probably repel each other like magnets. This will truly be the marriage of two short-bus air
29 USFlyer MSP : Ok, so if they are going to get rid of CLT, PHL, LAS, and PHX why exactly would they merge with US ? CLT and PHL are much more profitable than UA's h
30 Post contains images Jmc1975 :    Many people don't seem to have a clue where US and HP would be today had Doug Parker not orchestrated the merger. Yes, the merger has had and co
31 Jetjack74 : Well, the separation of the labor groups US-east/west is still alive, and until both sides agree with a contract(which is what NW/DL is trying to do),
32 D328 : They both hate merging so much why not just get it over with, screw them all, if they want a job flying get the hell over it and move on.
33 Malaysia : I am tired of the speculations, the most effective method of this would be Shut down both United and US Airways for 72 hours at the union levels and t
34 Mariner : And the workers in this non-union airline of yours would have all my sympathy. mariner
35 Max Q : There was a chap by the name of Frank Lorenzo that did that a few years ago at Continental 'Malaysia' Worked wonders for morale, I know I was there th
36 Post contains links United1 : Well whatever the outcome of the merger this sure didn't USs image. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndQsNIGMIxs
37 Wdleiser : I have no clue what this merger would bring to united besides a shitty LCC wanna be with long haul service below par. CO was the perfect airline for U
38 MD-90 : United, however, was a step down for Continental.
39 United1 : Yeah but you know thats all fixable, the hard product onboard would be swapped out in any merger if nothing else just to standardise it across the co
40 United1 : Thank you for demonstrating why CO might not have been the best fit for UA if thats the attitude of COs employees, that they are better then everyone
41 Mariner : Things change. I remember when I flew Continental (first class, they called it) trans-Pacific on a DC-10 with something they called "a pub". It put m
42 Rbgso : This is an great idea, but I'm going to modify it a little. Have the current US sell the original US to United, and restore AW to what it was before
43 EMB170 : LOL sounds like watching the Frankenstein monster sing "puttin' on the ritz" in Young Frankenstein and then stumble all over the place trying to tap
44 ORD2PHL : Are they truly now on one operating certicficate? I thought that still wasn't possible due to the labor (mainly pilot) issues going on, and is in fac
45 Sac : I remember what UA did to CO in DEN. What is important, remember where you cam from, and what comes around goes around. No one understands better wha
46 Socalfive : Right on, but fat chance. They aren't "improvement" minded or management qualified. YES, and no, it'll be years worth of misery trying to put this ge
47 Nuggetsyl : WOW you must be a new hire. I guess you were not around for : - one less airline can make a difference button - the screw continental button - the un
48 TWAL1011 : One airline employee group thinking they are better than another? It is all the same thing with a different polyblend uniform. And seriously..Continte
49 Sh0rtybr0wn : i would not want to fly USAirways after all the nightmare stories I've heard over the past year. Id hate to see them take UA down the same path. I'd r
50 RW170 : Yes, they are on one operating certificate. Because of the pilot integration issues, they are still using two callsigns. 'West' is still using Cactus
51 CO767FA : CO employees "want" to be there! They just don't want to turn our thriving careers into sinking careers. Our attitudes toward UA is nothing compared
52 PanAm330 : No, of course not. Perhaps my words were a little jumbled. I meant that other airlines could've picked US' better assets up, including employees, and
53 CV880 : You're ignoring a couple of factors, cost of the hub, and lack of competition (once the hub is moved) in the South.....What would You say if AA were
54 Cubsrule : I'm not saying (nor have I ever said) that they ought to move the hub. I'm saying that there is flying at CLT, mainly to Latin America, that would do
55 Ikramerica : Never had them ever run out of food in F. Ever. So shenanigans on it happening twice to you. Now if they ran out of the "first choice" and you wanted
56 United1 : Sorry guys but thats ancient history, much like COs BKs are or at least that was the excuse why we couldn't talk about it on the UA/CO thread, times
57 Gigneil : CLT is the key part of the deal. NS
58 United1 : Agreed I dont think CLT is going anywhere if anything I could see it being expanded slightly, you may see some capacity getting transferred from PHL
59 Sac : Your right. The employee's of CO are no better than those of UA. But with the past history, CO employee's have always been a tight working group. If
60 Surfrider1978 : I really don't understand the importance of CLT????
61 AgentXE1225 : Well said. Technically, I'm COEX, but I wear the same uniform as mainline employees so most pax don't know that we operate CO flts, and I take great
62 EWRCabincrew : I can rattle off many instances of that. Where do I start? Nothing builds camaraderie like being spit on from other airlines employees (in uniform, I
63 RyeFly : It depends on what a hub means to you. Do you interpret a hub as place for one airline that can connect hundreds of flights together from one central
64 Twa727 : CLT is a smooth-running southern hub, outside of the ATC congestion of the northeast, generally good weather, relatively inexpensive operating costs,
65 United1 : Oh totally agreed, I would say the vast majority of people on this boards don't work for an airline. Actually I don't work for UA, I threw bags for t
66 Gigneil : It is often US' largest hub, gives great coverage of the Southeast US, is the only competitive option to Atlanta. NS
67 Mariner : I didn't say they ran out of food. Nor did I describe the present Continental premium cabin as "first". mariner
68 Flyorski : I I doubt it would survive if US and UA do merge. I for one certainly hope that they don't. Just because they would be bigger, does not mean that they
69 Mariner : While any airline could have snatched the assets, it is doubtful they would have taken the staff. United was in Chapter 11 at the time. Delta was fig
70 Maverick623 : LAS is already being dumped. PHX would stay because it's wayyy more reliable than DEN. Which brings me to: SFO, yes. LAX, yes. DEN? I don't think so.
71 777fan : I thought Reagan passed away a couple of years ago... As was mentioned, CLT would be the closest thing to a southeast hub the carrier could manage. I
72 Hiflyer : While all this merger talk has spun for the last few years Branson managed to get VX up and running taking the rules of foreign ownership right to the
73 Gigneil : It's one of the only things that would survive. NS
74 Avek00 : Lufthansa hasn't tested the USA airline foreign ownership rules at all with its minority holding in jetBlue.
75 CIDflyer : I don't understand how people cannot understand the importance or vitality of the CLT hub. CLT has been a major hub for the past 25 years. It is the
76 WorldTraveler : there is nothing wrong with testosterone if it is your own and it allows you to do things you couldn't do otherwise. Maybe, just maybe, you have had
77 Mariner : Undoubtedly. But testosterone has led to some extraordinary misadventures. As I see it, Mr. Tilton's testosterone is guiding him into misadventure no
78 United1 : My sentiments exactly, messing around with goodwill is rather risky it's actually one of the things that MCI/Woldcom got in some rather hot watter ab
79 Vega : This thing about Hubs is a bit over emotional. Any major city which requires an airline hub to be economically successful is basically in trouble. Ne
80 WorldTraveler : well we do know. DL remained independent and was not forced to prostitute itself to US. Right can be defined many ways but not cutting 10% of capacit
81 United1 : Not likely US has about 622M of goodwill on the books, UA has around 2.28B worth on the books, no where near mind you what DL and NW had (and still h
82 Mariner : You may "know". I don't. I have no way of "knowing" what the future might have been. That's revisionism. We have no idea whether it would have been a
83 Jmc1975 : Ummm, did you read........???? Exactly, like what Frontier is doing!
84 Jmc1975 : The move to one operating certificate was finalized in September 2007. There are still separate labor contracts. Thanks. I'll take note of that.
85 DLPMMM : I have on CI in F class and on KE in J.
86 Mariner : I hope they gave you a "treat" of some kind? It happened to me once on a United flight from HNL. They ran out of first class breakfast choices, so th
87 Malaysia : I just thought it all over again UA and US shut down all operations at all HUBS for 72 hours except all routes and services from CLT and keep the OCC
88 Halls120 : I am as well. US offers the worst flying experience of all the US legacies. Adding the poor performance of US to the problems UA already has will onl
89 Cubsrule : The scary thing is that the hub would probably run better with EN running things... the morale among mainline employees at CLT since the merger is (o
90 Malaysia : How would they have worse morale if there is really no former HP staff at CLT?
91 Cubsrule : If anything, I would expect the ex-US staff to have worse morale; their company is the one that got acquired. Most of the ex-PI people at CLT are del
92 Flyingho : Doug Parker and his cronies have turned the east into one big GHETTO JET . The west was already low cost/low class. The only hope would be that they w
93 Mariner : "screw" the employees? They have jobs - because of Mr. Parker. They get paid - because of Mr. Parker. It looks to me as if some east employees have t
94 Live2fly83 : I have to agree, and since then he has built a much stronger airline for both the former America West and US Air The combined airline now has a much
95 Ikramerica : Really. How many Domestic F flights have you flown on Asian, ME and Australasian carriers? How many even HAVE domestic service, let alone domestic F?
96 FlyBoy84 : Maybe I missed something, but I just don't get what the problem is that people have with US I mean, I've only flown them a few times, but I've NEVER,
97 Mariner : Who's "bitching"? Why is a comment - as a statement of experience - so often regarded as a criticism on a.net? It is what it is. It was what it was.
98 MKE22 : They said this UA-US merger was supposed to be knotted yesterday... What happened, and what is happening?
99 Maverick623 : Who is they? Exactly.... nobodies who hear that airlines actually talk to each other and want to feel important, so they start rumors that they have
100 Post contains links Fanfan : Two links worth looking at http://www.iag-inc.com/content/Current%20cash%20burn.pdf http://iagblog.podomatic.com/entry/2008-05-02T11_05_48-07_00 Both
101 Flyingho : We make money inspite of ourselves. You don't think the 2 billion in cuts the east took make all the difference. We made less than 500 million last y
102 Mariner : Of course, they made a difference. The difference between survival and extinction. And the airline survived and you have a job and you get paid. If t
103 Maverick623 : Because people like you don't know how to grow up and let go of grudges.
104 United1 : Their analysis of all the airlines are wrong, they took the operating loss of each carrier divided it by the number of days in the quarter and assume
105 Jmc1975 : You sound like one of those battered, washed out has-been squeaky wheels that keeps the new US Airways from moving forward. You would be doing yourse
106 DeltaL1011man : And then just give Delta the south? good idea.........CLT is UA's way into the south not IAD.
107 DeltaOwnsAll : i dont understand why people bring up fuel costs so often in these discussions? yes, theyre back-breaking right now, but every single airline (no matt
108 Cubsrule : At least on the frontline, if they're playing "screw the CEO," they apparently like Mr. Parker much less than Mr. Siegel. US East had its problems pr
109 Post contains links Mariner : That's hard to imagine. My memory Mr. Siegel was generally thought to be the Prince of Darkness. There appeared to be a concerted campaign against hi
110 Cubsrule : He was, and I think I may have misunderstood you. I took... ...as a reference to East's generally lousy customer service, but I think you were gettin
111 DTWAGENT : If they US/UA go for this merger. It would mean good bye to both airlines. Either one is in good enough financial situation to do a merger like this.
112 Cubsrule : ...and yet 20 years later, NW is still around. Interesting.
113 Post contains links LAXintl : The links provided are incredibly wrong, an matter of fact a post about them was deleted earlier this week due to their falacy. In the case of United
114 CIDFlyer : anyone have any updates on the speculated UA/US merger? Is a decision getting closer?
115 Jmc1975 : Hold on....let me check the internet to see if there is anything on it.
116 MSYPI7185 : I will quote the words of Rakesh Gangwal from a meeting I attended with him in CLT. " When I was with UA we were definitely interested in USAir's ass
117 United1 : When Gangwal worked for UA they were rather overstaffed, UA employed roughly 80,000+ people during his time, its quite probable that they felt that U
118 WesternA318 : All I remember of of Seigel was what he said in reference to WN moving into PHL... 'They're going to kill us!" But still with a reputation of lousy s
119 1821 : It sounds to me like UA r desperate to survive- no harm intended but ever since they got out of Chapter 11 they have been finding it difficult to keep
120 Post contains links Panamair : From the online WSJ yesterday: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1209...5565667.html?mod=yahoo_hs&ru=yahoo In a nutshell: - identified potential US$1.5
121 Mariner : That is all most people remember of him. But the story of his time there is much, much more interesting than just that one statement. Mr. Siegel was
122 Caspritz78 : Just heard it here in Germany in the news. Let's see what the next 10 days will bring.
123 Post contains links KarlB737 : Apparently there is some stiff resistance to the proposed merger between United and USAirways. Some employee groups have expressed their belief that t
124 Hiflyer : So now the reason for this announcement: CHICAGO (AP) -- United Airlines on Thursday named John Tague chief operating officer as part of a management
125 777fan : There are days where it seems as if UA doesn't want its own employees! *Shocker*! What will happen if either carrier were to announce that, in order
126 DeltaL1011man : =LH and maybe AC
127 GALLEYSTEW : I have yet to find anyone at UNITED who wants this to happen. United can stand alone , just as Continental is choosing to do.
128 MasseyBrown : Correct (as usual). Siegel was fired and then US carried out the exact plan he was fired for proposing.
129 Post contains links Vega : Here is ANOTHER press analysis on the situation: "....The combined carrier would be headquartered in Chicago, United's base and home to its largest ai
130 Post contains links 777fan : Yeah, I posted that link in the other (similar) thread. http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/3975015/ 777fan
131 Laxboeingman : I also heard that US and AA were talking about a merger.
132 IliriBDL : I thought their talks were over and they were discussing only with UA?
133 PHXmd80 : Everybody wants to be told what they want to hear. He was CEO/President at ATA from 1993-2003 IIRC. After he left for United, ATA started to struggle
134 Post contains links Mariner : Not in my business. We dream - avidly - but we want to be told what we need to know. Our income depends on it. Mr. Tague left ATA in 2002. There was
135 Twixer85 : Raising revenue is an instant fix to ride out the storm. Unnecessary costs however, is the actual contributor to losses and merger-dependency. As I re
136 Nuggetsyl : If us and united are going to dance i would think they are going to have to do something soon. This merger is going to have to do alot more convincing
137 AA767400 : By his choice of course. Not one person forced him to take an economy meal. He did not like the choice/choices left on the J class menu, and instead
138 Malaysia : I bet while we are all busy speculating the UA/US merger and the hints of the AA/US talks.... Then suddenly.... Continental merges with US Airways
139 United1 : Naaaa we all know CO is going after WN and US is going to merge with HA..... Aloha Rochester!!!!!
140 Mariner : No one forces either of us to do anything in our world. It is a question of value for money - perceived service for perceived cost. I sit where the a
141 Twixer85 : The AA/TW merger seemed smooth. Eventhough, I am sure they considered how much cash it would cost if it did not materialize.
142 Bobnwa : Seemed smooth? By whose measurement? Surely not by the thousands of TW folks who were let go.
143 United1 : Putting aside the human part of the equation, integrating TW into AA went rather well from migrating the reservation system to painting errrr un-pain
144 Cubsrule : ...which had more to do with 9/11 than with the merger itself. But for 9/11, we could very well still have a fenced in STL operation and lots of happ
145 Post contains links Apodino : This might be worthy of its own thread, but it looks like Parker will be leading the merged carrier. http://www.reuters.com/article/marke...sNews/idIN
146 Panamair : " target=_blank>http://www.reuters.com/article/marke...pc=44 Sorry, but I don't see where the article says anything about Parker leading the merged c
147 EMB170 : True...but from what I gather on this board blood is thicker than water and a great many RC employees exist that are still sore about the way in whic
148 Twixer85 : The airline is only made up of customers, employees and shareholders. I don't see it easy on the shareholders. At least the ones that are on the play
149 Avek00 : ... the integration also cost AA over a billion dollars, which along with the post-9/11 traffic slump, contributed to depleting the airline's cash ba
150 Cubsrule : Ultimately, you have to ask yourself whether it was worth it. Mergers are hardly ever as smooth as management says they are going to be, but here we
151 Maverick623 : And I have some choice words for those folks. Unfortunately, most of them would get me a ban, so I'll leave it to three: GET...OVER....IT. 20 years h
152 United Airline : Still no news........ wonder if this is true
153 Malaysia : I think there will be no merger at all
154 Airborne1 : THank GOD!!! Hopefully Co and UAL Alliance and United just grows itself within the company
155 Crjflyer35 : To be honest, unless you're working at US / HP, I everyone's opinion matters as much as a dead fly....I bust my butt here in PHX and lost 10 lbs ever
156 Airborne1 : People who follow the sector rightly conclude that the status quo is unsustainable for the industry. They also correctly note that weak carriers and t
157 CIDflyer : seems like all's been quiet on the UA/US merger talks. What are the chances that this will really happen? One would have to think we would be hearing
158 SkyGirl : For some reason I thought I heard something on the news last week saying that UA and US can't merge because of US still sorting through things with th
159 777fan : Nice post. I've added you to my RU list. 777fan
160 UA_727 : ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, This, and the rest of your aforementioned post is ripped almost entirely from Glenn Tilton's call to employees last week... I
161 777fan : Settle down, Francis, the information was insightful and since Airborne1 apparently works for United, the "we" pronoun is applicable. I'm sure that i
162 United1 : No he didn't its literally 90% of the text from Glens message to employees, and about the only part that he left out was... "thats all for now, i wil
163 Jmc1975 : Sounds like you're complaining and not thankful for your job that allows you to lose weight, keep fit, and pay your mortgage...and you are jealous to
164 Jmc1975 : Sounds like Tilton likes to quote Jerry Springer!
165 UA_727 : It's true - 100% from the Glenn Tilton call. Again, it's simply about acknowledging the source of the content, especially when it's in oratory form..
166 United1 : lol....well Springer does tape rather close to UAs HQ
167 JohnClipper : No offence, but I've flown CO now transpacific instead of UA, and I like UA better. Major issues at EWR both times (worse than ORD and the weather wa
168 NwaLAS : How about PIT ??? Is it time to "turn out the lights" in PIT???
169 Greasemonkey : Well, just to break the news if it already hasn't happened considering this is A.net, a company letter from none other than Dougie P. was just release
170 Scoobyd75 : Not going to happen I work for US Parker shot it down today.
171 Sparkingwave : Both UA and US have called off the merger. Now it's time to shut down this thread.
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