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Austrian Airlines Losses-the Cheik Is Not Amused  
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Posted (6 years 4 months 6 days ago) and read 6080 times:

Cheik Mohamed Bin Issa Al Jaber ,ment to invest 150M € into lossmaking AUA ,is not amused !
The recently anounced loss of more than 60 M€ for the first quarter is much steeper than anticipated -responsible for the heavy drop in AUA's share-price to under 4 € ( 3.7 € last tradings ). Al Jaber had agreed to purchase 20% of AUA et a staggering rate of 150 M €- currently the value of the whole AUA is a mere 320 M € -...so theoretically for 150 M€ he could buy half of the company but the deal ties him into a 20% participation.
Now the deal seems in jeopardy...
Austrian media report about meeting after meeting and even Austria's chancellor gets involved.
The showdown is set on the 7th of may ...



http://www.oe24.at/zeitung/wirtschaft/article300205.ece


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMaskeer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5875 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
The recently anounced loss of more than 60 M€ for the first quarter is much steeper than anticipated -responsible for the heavy drop in AUA's share-price to under 4 € ( 3.7 € last tradings ).



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
Now the deal seems in jeopardy...

If he likes loss-making carriers, Alitalia is up for sale  Smile


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5532 times:

As I expected it -the Cheik is not amused and said "no" to his 150 M € investments in AUA..

http://derstandard.at/?url=/?id=3324567



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7131 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5510 times:

Oh Dear - looks like the Fokker 100s with the vile lime green seats are around for a few decades longer. Will the skylink be a dead duck before it opens?


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineFiatstilojtd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5483 times:

I wonder if they will now revoke his Austrian Citizenship which he got two days after he signed the contract with OS    . No joke aside, I can fully understand why the owner of a few BIG luxury Hotels in Vienna is now pissed off when it comes to OS, and investing money into them.

[Edited 2008-05-03 05:06:13]

User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5204 times:

Financial Times Germany reporting the deal is officially off- so now AUA is in deep,deep sh.. !

http://www.ftd.de/unternehmen/handel...ian%20Airlines%20Stich/351362.html



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4396 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5185 times:

Already made the call to Cologne?

User currently offlineFiatstilojtd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5167 times:

Kurier.at talks about a team-up with Emirates....now that would be interesting.  Wink

http://www.kurier.at/geldundwirtschaft/156927.php


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5155 times:

"...Sehr wohl aber betont Gross grundsätzlich Interesse an regionalen Kooperationen, auch mit der AUA. Emirates und AUA würden sich wegen der Stärke der AUA in Osteuropa "sinnvoll ergänzen". Eine Kapitalbeteiligung allerdings sei für Emirates "generell kein Thema".

That means there is no question about any financial involvement of EK in AUA -just some lukewarm code-share - eventually..
What AUA needs now and urgently is cash-injection and no code-shares !



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineFiatstilojtd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5125 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 8):
What AUA needs now and urgently is cash-injection and no code-shares !

Yeah, because Code-share agreement with an airline that no longer exists are pretty useless. But it is no secret that EK wanted to team-up with OS in the past but the political highly influenced management was too arrogant....now they can finally see the result of their arrogant behaviour.


User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4987 times:

I have always thought AUA was ill-run. It's the only European airline I know that can run various aircraft on the same route. A tightly run airline should have all its aircraft pre-planned to do specific routes. There should be nothing idle except those in maintenance.

It also sends a F-70 all the way to north Africa. Surely not the best route suited to that tiny aircraft or the type of pax it carries, which are mostly business men.

I guess that's another one to bite the dust  Yeah sure


User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3900 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4981 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 10):
It's the only European airline I know that can run various aircraft on the same route

Lots of them do this! For example, some days BA sends A319s, A320s and 767-300s on the LHR - DUS route!


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4396 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4972 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 10):
I guess that's another one to bite the dust

Never. I think the document "How to save Swiss" is already copied to the clipboard, just needs a ctrl v to be executed.


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4935 times:

The Austrians are at least as proud and possessive about AUA than the Italians with Alitalia..
Most Austrians refuse the idea to attach financially AUA to Lufthansa-there is a viceral hate-love between Austrians and Germans.It's a little bit like between Belgium and the Netherlands- they are neighbours but very attached to their national pride and symbols...



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineCaspritz78 From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4935 times:



Quoting Burkhard (Reply 6):
Already made the call to Cologne?

Wonder if the Anti-Trust Agency in Brussels would allow LH to take over OS. LH would then be the dominating carrier in the German speaking countries.

Maybe OS has to take the same steps EI had to take in order to survive.


User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4897 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 13):
The Austrians are at least as proud and possessive about AUA than the Italians with Alitalia..
Most Austrians refuse the idea to attach financially AUA to Lufthansa-there is a viceral hate-love between Austrians and Germans.

true... but what about AF?



300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4396 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4879 times:

Even with BD,SN and OS LH is smaller than AFR-KLM-AZ. So no anti-trust issue. Just be realistic, the now alliances in Europe will join to 3 full service providing airlines, one called AF, one called LH, and one called BA.

User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3168 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4853 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 10):
I have always thought AUA was ill-run. It's the only European airline I know that can run various aircraft on the same route. A tightly run airline should have all its aircraft pre-planned to do specific routes.

Care to elaborate?

IMHO, there is no single advantage to pre-planning aircraft to specific routes. KLM for example, does not pre-assign aircraft to routes. Instead, on a daily basis, the best aircraft - route matches are determined. For example, capacity can be matched to expected demand.

It is very valuable to have the freedom to vary the tail-to-flight assignments frequently. You will need sophisticated software to be able to do so, but once you have it, it is great.

Pre-assigning and sticking to that plan, to me, seems like having a lack of proper IT systems.

Quoting Babybus (Reply 10):
There should be nothing idle except those in maintenance.

What about spare aircraft?

And don't forget that air travel demand has a large variety. During winter, demand is way less than during summer. Many airlines lower aircraft utilisation during winter (including the likes of Ryanair), as it is cheaper to keep them on the ground than to fly them around empty.

Quoting Babybus (Reply 10):
It also sends a F-70 all the way to north Africa. Surely not the best route suited to that tiny aircraft or the type of pax it carries, which are mostly business men.

Why not? You mean to Tripoli, I assume? Why wouldn't you fly a F70 there? When you have 50 or 60 seats booked, it seems a perfect aircraft to the route? What's your suggestion, sending an A320 there with 65% of the seats empty? VIE-TIP is not event that far (under 3 houts).


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7131 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4814 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 10):
It also sends a F-70 all the way to north Africa. Surely not the best route suited to that tiny aircraft or the type of pax it carries, which are mostly business men.

And to Asia - Ankara is frequently served by a Fokker



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2499 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4804 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 13):
The Austrians are at least as proud and possessive about AUA than the Italians with Alitalia..
Most Austrians refuse the idea to attach financially AUA to Lufthansa-there is a viceral hate-love between Austrians and Germans.

It could be a good option for BA and OW. They lack presence in Central Europe (Malev is too small).
OS can add better East European and CIS routes to OW and put OW as a viable alliance in central Europe.



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4786 times:



Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 15):
true... but what about AF?

Air France have recently never officially considered or looked at AUA - their focus remains on the Alitalia situation.
It is my understanding that some years ago there were timid talks between Paris and Vienna,but in those days the AUA management seemed excessively arrogant- so the Frenchies went home.
It takes just a couple of retarded "Hofräte" to offend down to earth airline-managers...



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4732 times:



Quoting Caspritz78 (Reply 14):

Wonder if the Anti-Trust Agency in Brussels would allow LH to take over OS. LH would then be the dominating carrier in the German speaking countries.

LH and OS already have a joint venture for the traffic between both countries with profit sharing etc. So if taken over, there would not really be a new situation to traffic between both countries and on routes where they a monopole. A take over would certainly reduce competition to eastern Europe, but since there are still a lo of other carriers in the market, I don"t expect too much concerns from the EU.


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day ago) and read 4484 times:

it seems LH are back on the scene - provided the Austrians would "..send the right signals.."
Ötsch doen't have much time left,if he wants to avoid an AZ-style situation !
AUA carry a one billion € debt in their bridal chest...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...100&sid=aDTAF5ZBV3Xk&refer=germany



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 23 hours ago) and read 4463 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 22):
AUA carry a one billion € debt in their bridal chest...

What a beauty... Wink


User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1384 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 14 hours ago) and read 4314 times:

C'mon LH, just buy OS and pull us out of that trouble!

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 22):
it seems LH are back on the scene - provided the Austrians would "..send the right signals.."

Hopefully, this time our politicians aren't that narrow-minded and actually allow LH to buy OS. As Niki Lauda said: "Look at the swiss guys. They also still fly around with the Swiss cross on their tail despite being owned by Lufthansa."

I just hope, if that sale materializes, that OS will keep their current level of service, especially on EU routes!



WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
25 Beaucaire : Well Oetsch does not sound like it... original statement of him this afternoon : "Unabhängig von einem möglichen Ausstieg von Sheikh Al Jaber, gibt
26 AustrianZRH : Yes, we've all seen that during the press conference announcing Q1 numbers Stupid him...
27 Fiatstilojtd : Sad, but now we can see why the political influenced ÖIAG "installed" one of their man as CEO...Ötsch. They really want to try it alone - with Al Ja
28 Burkhard : So, to bring it to the point, how many million Euros is OS still allowed to loose until the LH friendly takeover?
29 Fiatstilojtd : When you look at this question from an economical point.....not many anymore, but from a political - unlimited...the taxpayer will pay the debt at th
30 Post contains links Beaucaire : In German : the cheik seems to have agreed finally to join the company ,represented by two board-members in his name. http://www.kurier.at/geldundwirt
31 Burkhard : Looks like a typical Austrian solution, some more highly paid managers...
32 Post contains links Beaucaire : It's not over yet- one of the major banks that were supposed to participate in the financial deal refuses to grant some part of the funds the CheikAL
33 Fiatstilojtd : Hi Beaucaire, yeah, now we will see what the so called ‚Comfort letter’ (Bankauskunft) from the South African "Standard Bank Plc" is worth in rea
34 AustrianZRH : Well, our dear social democratic fellow Gruselbauer also said that a sale would put xxx jobs in peril. And of course, he follows the Kreisky-doctrine
35 ZRH : I think the good guy did not understand what happened with Swissair. They tried to stand alone, had a catastrophic strategy and went bankrupt. BTW I
36 Burkhard : Not more to add.
37 Fiatstilojtd : Well there is this Quasi Modo joke with the mirror and who is the most ugliest person in the whole world...but that is off topic. Exactly Maybe he di
38 Post contains links AustrianZRH : Austrian media now reports that OS probably will have to look for a "strategic partner" and may even give up its independence. Link only in German, so
39 A350XWB : " target=_blank>http://orf.at/080509-24875/index.html Very interesting, mainly the last two sentences: "Environment for AUA changed dramatically. Öt
40 Fiatstilojtd : Ötsch should also start to imagine to lose his job at OS, but the ÖVP will find a nice, well paid place for him, no doubt about that.
41 Qazar : LH is now looking at BMI... 1) The turbulent world economic environment, and its future unpredictibality, will prevent LH's business savvy management
42 JoFMO : Erbil (Iraq) EBL Damascus DAM Krasnodar KRR Sochi/Adler AER Kharkov HRK Dnepropetrovs DNM Odessa ODS Lviv LWO Varna VAR Bourgas BOJ Thessaloniki SKG
43 Qazar : Risk analysis doesn't just involve operations and networks. There is the entire integration of 2 corporate cultures into one - albeit that LH allows
44 ZRH : Thessaloniki is served by SWISS.
45 Post contains links Beaucaire : An interesting fact-recalled in an article of " Der Kurier" -some years ago, Air France was offering 1 Billion € for 25% of AUA plus a loan of 500 M
46 Post contains links Beaucaire : Interesting article (in German ) explaining Sheik Al Jabers's intention to link AUA and Iraqi airways.. The AUA boss did not approve-hence the failure
47 Post contains links AustrianZRH : Now Ötsch fulfilled his 180° turn. He now endorses the sale of the majority in OS's stake. As possible buyers he mentions SU, LH, AF/KL, EK. His con
48 BestWestern : strategic partner = bending over for Lufthansa. oh Dear.
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