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FlyBE Selling Slots And Trouble Rumours  
User currently offlineSpeedmarque From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 684 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8356 times:

Hi,

Sincerely hope this comes to nothing however, rumours are strong at LGW of FlyBE having troubles. They are frantically trying to sell slots.

Two seperate sources from different companies have told me this?

Any truth?

[Edited 2008-05-01 07:24:09]

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAcelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 814 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8356 times:

How many slots does FlyBe have at LGW?

I guess buying all these new Dash 8's must be costing something too?



from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11572 posts, RR: 61
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8018 times:

They are embarking on massive expansion currently, opening up routes left right and centre. Perhaps somebody has official load factors to hand, because as a passenger who's flown them a few times recently and watched a lot of their flights boarding/deplaning etc, I've only seen half full at best - 12 people on an EMB are hardly going to be making that flight profitable, surely?


Dan  Smile



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12321 posts, RR: 35
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7905 times:

I've seen a lot of 195 flights which are only half full; that said, BA owns about 15% of them and there are continuing rumours that BA will scrap some of its short haul 737 flights and codeshare with BA.

User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4914 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7741 times:

They've only recently been buying new LGW slots and starting ABZ/NCL-LGW


Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2053 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7645 times:

All those ex-BA planes and the costs of merging them and their crews in probably didn't help. Emb-145s are hardly designed for LCC ops.
The sooner they become all-Q400 and E-195 the better though they had probably planned to recoup the above costs now sans 'credit crunch' and fuel squeeze..



` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineSignol From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2007, 2984 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7093 times:

I recently flew them NWI - EDI and the plane was full.
Flybe have also recently cancelled their sponsorship of Norwich City FC, and are apparently reducing other football club sponsorship deals.
I hope nothing happens, as they are the main carrier at NWI  Sad

signol



Flights booked: none :(
User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7042 times:



Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 2):
and watched a lot of their flights boarding/deplaning etc, I've only seen half full at best - 12 people on an EMB are hardly going to be making that flight profitable, surely?

I saw the same thing the other week at MAN. I don't know where the inbound was from but about 10 people got off. The outbound to EXT went out with only 6 people! That's a lot of empty seats.

Even though I'm close to LGW I have never once thought about checking out their fares.


User currently offlineVinnieWinnie From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 770 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6911 times:

Have a look at this report: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airline...ation_Individual_Airlines_2007.pdf


From this report I calculated the Average Load Factor:

Type of Plane Seat KM -Used Seat KM provided Load Factor Average Daily utilisation per AC
bae 146-200 44170 70501 62.65% 0.7
bae 146-300 446804 745823 59.91% 4.2
bombardier dash 8 q400 1359676 2262348 60.10% 5.3
de havilland dasj 8 q30 13302 24396 54.53% 0.7
embrear erj 195 534775 796582 67.13% 6.8
embrear rj 145 538956 889699 60.58% 4.2
Average: 2937683 4789349 61.34% 4.3


So in summary Load factors are quite poor (81.84% for EZE 737's for example) , Average Daily utilisation is appaling (10.2H EZE 737) and can't imagine Yields to be amazing either!

No wonder they are having a difficult time!


User currently offlineJobsagoodun From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6838 times:

My god, I'd love to know where these rumours have sprung from. All I can say is 'what a load of rubbish!!'

Why would Flybe want to get rid of LGW slots. They have recently increased the JER from 4 to 6 rotations daily whilst buying slots for the new ABZ and NCL routes. Hardly smacks of desperation to sell up?!?!?!?!

Flybe also carry a much much higher proportion of business travellers so whilst their load factors will not be the same as EZY, their business model doesn't need them to be. Don't count pax, count suits!

Flybe are in a far better place to ride out any short term 'credit crunch' too. With FR and EZY more predominantly focussed on those who might fancy a short weekend break to Latvia, Romania, Italy or Spain etc, it is those airlines who target the leisure traveller that can no longer afford such discretionary trips who will suffer first. FR are already increasing thier check-in and baggage charges and EZY are beginning to ramp up retirements in their fleet so as to reduce total numbers.

Whilst BAConnect may have been a poorly performing business, this was not due to the routes, this was through poor management and the need do everything the 'BA' way. The routes were always strong but underperforming and not realising potential. The pax volumes are much higher now, than under Connect. Why else would BHXDUS go from 4 ER4's under BAConnect to 2 DH4's + 2 ER4's now under Flybe with the E195 due on the route towards the end of the summer according to the GDS?

Yes Flybe have an expanding fleet but they have the luxury of knowing that pretty much all deliveries are aircraft subsitutions DH4 for ER4. With every substitution, Flybe just get stronger and theres is an envious position to be in when you consider those like, Eastern, BMIBaby. JET2 etc who are far more likely to suffer first.


User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7199 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6351 times:

I hear what you are saying but Silverjet also have 60% yields, look at the problems that they are having.

Perhaps they need to park some planes.


User currently offlineJobsagoodun From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5903 times:

The difference would appear to be that Flybe can still make profit based on these loadfactors. The reality is that they are often not as cheap as U2/FR but this means that they also don't need the loadfactors.

I don't think you'll see Flybe parking aircraft anytime soon!


User currently offlineEXTspotter From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5779 times:

I know that it is only one flight, however, when I flew to Manchester last August from Exeter on the friday morning flight (6.55 departure), there were 17 people on the Q400 (something like 70 seats). 11 suits and 6 casuals, 5 of those were me and my family connecting onto DP. For a route in a regional setting, even with the business friendly timing, 11 obvious businessmen is a lot. However it must be said that 30%ish LF is no way to make money, especially in this enviornment of high fuel prices and slowdown in the global economy.


AF BE BY FR MV PD SZ U2 VZ DHC6, 8-3/4Q, 732/8, 763ER, A319, A380
User currently offlineEgmcman From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 898 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5714 times:



Quoting Signol (Reply 6):
Flybe have also recently cancelled their sponsorship of Norwich City FC, and are apparently reducing other football club sponsorship deals.
I hope nothing happens, as they are the main carrier at NWI

I hope relations between them and NWI management after the number of passengers flying on DUB route wich was made the national and local both on tv and in the newspapers news in Anglia Tonight and Look East.


User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8426 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5665 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Load factors aside, Flybe are not the cheapest LCC in the market place.

Given the price I've paid for tickets lately, I'd say they were making money despite less than stellar loads.

M



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333,342
User currently offlineLukebaker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5552 times:

I do hope Flybe go bust. They are a ghastly airline and the world would be better off with BA Regional.

P.S. Do you actually buy slots at LGW or just apply for them?


User currently offlineCOEI2007 From Vanuatu, joined Jan 2007, 1912 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5446 times:



Quoting Lukebaker (Reply 15):
do hope Flybe go bust. They are a ghastly airline and the world would be better off with BA Regional.

P.S. Do you actually buy slots at LGW or just apply for them?

Well the staff and airports that have large amounts of BE flights arent going to agree with you. A lot of their routes wouldnt be taken over by BA regional, so the likes of EXT and SOU would be left pretty empty. Even if you dont like them, its pretty immature to hope they fail


User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8426 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5441 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Lukebaker (Reply 15):
I do hope Flybe go bust. They are a ghastly airline

- I disgaree, would rather fly them than FR & EZY.

M



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333,342
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11572 posts, RR: 61
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5394 times:

There is no 'BA regional' - they were taken over by FlyBe. I agree, it's not right to wish thousands of people were unemployed, down right selfish if you ask me.

I wonder perhaps if they have been a little too ambitious with their ordering, and now are having issues finding routes to put their fleet on. But, if that is the case, then I'd just expect them to park the 145s straight away, and replace them with the Q400s.


Dan  Smile



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineBmiBaby737 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1784 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5376 times:

Quoting Lukebaker (Reply 15):
I do hope Flybe go bust.

Grow up.

Quoting COEI2007 (Reply 16):
immature


[Edited 2008-05-05 13:17:29]

User currently offlineJobsagoodun From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5222 times:



Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 18):
I wonder perhaps if they have been a little too ambitious with their ordering, and now are having issues finding routes to put their fleet on.

I think that it is important to understand that the vast majority of aircraft coming to Flybe between now and the end of 2009 are being used simply as fleet substitution for E145's. You have to hand it to Flybe, they either seemed to see precisely this situation coming regarding the credit crunch, or and most probable, they were extremely fortunate to be able to time the acquisition of BACon at just thre right time.

Had the BACon deal not happened, Flybe would be left having to find new routes for all the Q400's that they have on order. Remember, Flybe have not increased its order book for Q400's as a result of the BACon aquisitioin. As it stands, with BACon, the business is at far less risk as all new Q400's are being placed on already established and mostly profitable routes.

The same cannot be said for FR for example who have a larger number of new 737's on order and are constantly having to find new routes for them.


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11572 posts, RR: 61
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5174 times:



Quoting Jobsagoodun (Reply 20):
I think that it is important to understand that the vast majority of aircraft coming to Flybe between now and the end of 2009 are being used simply as fleet substitution for E145's.

Yes I do understand that. My point is that things are surely not so bad, as are not accelerating the withdrawal of the 145s like Easyjet is doing with their 737s; if they had cut routes and parked the entire ex BA fleet early, then I would be really worried about them.


Dan  Smile



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineVinnieWinnie From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 770 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4969 times:



Quoting Jobsagoodun (Reply 20):
The same cannot be said for FR for example who have a larger number of new 737's on order and are constantly having to find new routes for them.

Well no they just retire their oldest planes and substitute them with the new ones! In most cases anyway! I agree that it is never a 1 to 1 replacement process!


User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4916 times:



Quoting Lukebaker (Reply 15):
I do hope Flybe go bust

ehhhhhh what!!!!.... some people......  banghead   banghead 

I think BE are in a better position than the larger locos Like FR and EZY. The majority of there fleet are DH8-400's this is a very fuel efficient aircraft also to fill 78 seats compared to FR's 189 Is easier. I flew with Jet2 regularly when they operated the NCL/LGW route and it was ok but they could only half fill a 737-300. Also BA tried to operate a 110 seat 737-500 on the route but they could only fill it Monday am and Friday pm. Otherwise they managed to get on average 60-70 pax per flight. Flew with BE on the first day and a mid week daytime flight a week or so ago and the flights must have been 85% full. BE buy onboard is also better to that of FR where alcohol is served in a packet that ends up over the tray table rather than in a glass and not to mention all the crew on BE are British and speak english where on Ryanair that is a different story.

You want to try flying STN/DUB with Ryanair and not understanding a word the crew said because they where polish and Italian with bare minimum english in there vocabularly.

I do think BE should move though from that horrible South Terminal to the North. All the ex BACON aircraft have been sold. The BACON Bae146 and DH8 aircraft have gone. They have had 8-10 Embraers leave for other carriers already.

FR have said they will have to park up 20 aircraft this winter and they are going to speed up the program of aircraft exiting the fleet.

Before 2001 when BE was JY and it looked like it was gonna go under. However the chief exec and his staff have turned it around into a very good loco operation. BA have a 15% stake in them. If something was wrong at BE BA are not stupid they would sell there stake sharpish.

BA will only give up there domestics ex LGW if they are gonna get some benefit. LGW/EDI, DUB and MAN earn alot of money for BA. I could see JER/NQY/GLA all going to BE however BA would proberly say they would have to do the ground handling and also BE would need to move to the Nth Terminal.


User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2462 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4879 times:



Quoting BALHRWWCC (Reply 23):
BA will only give up there domestics ex LGW if they are gonna get some benefit. LGW/EDI, DUB and MAN earn alot of money for BA. I could see JER/NQY/GLA all going to BE however BA would proberly say they would have to do the ground handling and also BE would need to move to the Nth Terminal.

I don't see JER going to BE. BA offers Club product on those flights and it seems that the route is a money maker. BA and BE should work more closely together and offer joint ticketing while staying independant (no franchise). They could reduce duplicated routes from LGW and start new ones. BA could even place its codes on routes to ABZ and NCL.



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 25, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4864 times:

It is reluctant to do that out of LGW in the regions it was different but LGW is BA hometurf and they won't want to enter into codesharing ex LGW as it is buy on board on BE and not on BA.

BA has had it's fingures burn't by this with IB before. They won't make that mistake again lightly


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