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Why No Tatl Flights From UK To LaGuardia NYC  
User currently offlineJwb2 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 20 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10982 times:

Why are there no flights to LaGuardia from the UK? I am aware of the night flying ban but are there any other reasons? Surely it would make sense for US to operate as they have a major base there. LaGuardia is also closer to Manhattan itself. Could we also see airlines such as EOS or Silverjet fying there.

85 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11983 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10994 times:

LaGuardia has a perimeter rule in effect every day of the week except Saturday. London, or any other place in the U.K., is definitely way way outside that perimeter.

User currently offlineAcelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 857 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10971 times:

EOS have finished

Anyway I don't think there is any customs etc at LGA is there?

Plus the runway is not that long and I guess ramp space is in demand.



from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10974 times:

...and LGA also lacks customs/immigration facilities (for commercial flights), so even on Saturday, it would not work.


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineLoggat From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10971 times:

LGA is slot controlled. FIS facilities are minimal (if not non-existant). There is a perimeter rule (hence why there are no LAX-LGA flights [rule does not apply on saturdays]). Others will chime on with more reasons.


There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10946 times:



Quoting Loggat (Reply 4):
LGA is slot controlled.

Are slots in effect on Saturdays? It might seem like a stupid question, but in light of the perimeter rule being different, I feel like it's at least worth asking.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8517 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10914 times:
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No CUSTOMS, a 1500 miles limit and weight limit on the runways. NO fully loaded 767 could take off from LGA to the UK. AND why would any body want to operate such a service ? IF you were, as BA is doing, going to operate from London City to New York there is no equivalent in New York, so JFK or EWR are the only options. The inconvenience of landing at JFK is far less then the journey from the Docklands to LHR.

User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10913 times:

Flights on Sat outside the perimeter rule dont seem to have worked real well. I think DL flew LGA-SLC for ski season a few years ago, but did it come back?

User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4298 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10913 times:



Quoting Jwb2 (Thread starter):
Why are there no flights to LaGuardia from the UK? I am aware of the night flying ban but are there any other reasons? Surely it would make sense for US to operate as they have a major base there. LaGuardia is also closer to Manhattan itself. Could we also see airlines such as EOS or Silverjet fying there.

Well, Eos shut down so that's out.

I'm guessing you have never been to LGA have you? It's a small, very overcrowded airport with lots of flights and not a lot of runway space. In fact, the two intersecting runways jut out into the East River. As it is, perimeter rule notwithstanding, I doubt the runways could support an aircraft large enough (with enough fuel) to handle a hop across the pond. DL uses the 767 into LGA, but that is only to ATL, a far cry from Europe.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11983 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10913 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
Are slots in effect on Saturdays? It might seem like a stupid question, but in light of the perimeter rule being different, I feel like it's at least worth asking.

Yes, I believe so.

However, of course, because of LaGuardia's heavy business travel orientation, air traffic in and out in significantly less on Saturdays, so there isn't as much of a capacity issue on that day. Now, Monday and Friday, and to a lesser extent Sunday ... that's another story.  Smile


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20368 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10912 times:

LGA is a mess. It's already *way* overstretched. There are no public transport facilities of any kind serving the airport other than the M61 bus, which is slower than molasses falling uphill in January.

I can only imagine a few 777/747 flights in there every day would make the place start to look like the Running of the Bulls at Pamplona run through a busy Bazaar in Baghdad. Not a pretty sight.


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4138 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10857 times:



Quoting Jwb2 (Thread starter):
Why are there no flights to LaGuardia from the UK? I am aware of the night flying ban but are there any other reasons? Surely it would make sense for US to operate as they have a major base there. LaGuardia is also closer to Manhattan itself. Could we also see airlines such as EOS or Silverjet fying there.

Besides the perimeter rule and FIS facilities described above, LGA is in such demand as you put it since it is the closest airport in NYC to midtown Manhattan. Getting there to JFK or EWR is much more problematic, so hence the reason for slot controls. The only foreign airports that have airlines with slots into LGA are YYZ and YUL so far as I'm aware of.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9755 posts, RR: 31
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10770 times:

The largest aircraft that have operated in and out of LGA was the L1011 in the domestic version and the DC10-10. I lived in Forest Hills in the 70s and they came over my house quite freqeuently.

It's an intersting point although and funny that no one came up with it, the fact that BA will operate 319s out of LCY at least theoretically means, that they could actually fly these in and out of LGA. Technicdally it would work, they would need to set up customs/immigration and get the 2- in and 2 outbound daily slots needed.

The Marine Air Terminal would be an ideal place, away from the hustle and the rush at the main terminals and a dedicated limo service would take care of speedy transfer to the city, Whoever is in rush can take the Helicopter.

The idea has some charme and NYC/LON is THE city pair that can make it "woik".

.
 Wink  Wink



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7545 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10726 times:



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 12):
The largest aircraft that have operated in and out of LGA was the L1011 in the domestic version and the DC10-10. I lived in Forest Hills in the 70s and they came over my house quite freqeuently.

I'm pretty sure DL put a 764 in there ...



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineDoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3443 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10707 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
M61 bus

I believe it is the M60, and the Q33 is also of some use, serving the Jackson Heights station. That said, its not nearly aa shiny or nice as the Airtrain (though it is much cheaper).



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10694 times:



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 11):
The only foreign airports that have airlines with slots into LGA are YYZ and YUL so far as I'm aware of.

Air Canada flies to YYZ, YUL, YHZ and YOW.
Continental flies to Aruba (Saturday only due to Perimeter rule) - they use a 737-800 for it
American flies to YYZ (combination of mainline/Eagle) and YHZ, YUL (Eagle)
Delta flies to NAS
US Airways flies to AUA, FPO, NAS and STT all seasonally.


User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10691 times:

You could fly a transatlantic flight to LaGuardia, it would just have to stop somewhere. Like what BA is doing with LCY-JFK via SNN, an airline could fly Europe - Halifax (IIRC Halifax has US FIS) - LaGuardia.

International flights to LaGuardia are permitted so long as they are precleared, so in theory, you could also see a saturday only flight to Shannon, Dublin (whenever they complete the facilities to do so in both cities) or Vancouver, BC.


User currently offlineAircellist From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1735 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10632 times:



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 12):
It's an intersting point although and funny that no one came up with it, the fact that BA will operate 319s out of LCY at least theoretically means, that they could actually fly these in and out of LGA. Technicdally it would work, they would need to set up customs/immigration and get the 2- in and 2 outbound daily slots needed.

The Marine Air Terminal would be an ideal place, away from the hustle and the rush at the main terminals and a dedicated limo service would take care of speedy transfer to the city, Whoever is in rush can take the Helicopter.

The idea has some charme and NYC/LON is THE city pair that can make it "woik".

On top of everything, it would give the potential users a feeling of exclusivity comparable to when they were flying Concorde...


User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10618 times:

LGA did have tatl flights operated by Pan Am Clippers from 1939-1941 unitl the outbreak of WWII


Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineMANisnumber1 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2007, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10538 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 6):
IF you were, as BA is doing, going to operate from London City to New York

BA is going to operate form london city to new york?? wow



U2 MAN-ALC-MAN, BA MAN-LHR-SFO, BA SEA-LHR-MAN...Summer 2010!
User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7545 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10439 times:



Quoting MANisnumber1 (Reply 19):
BA is going to operate form london city to new york?? wow

Not n/s west-bound...



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineAviateur From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1360 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10394 times:

Not only would its short runways make such operations very challenging (or impossible), La Guardia is subject to stage-length restricitons. Flights into/out of LGA cannot exceed 1,500 miles duration, with the exception of flights to Denver, which have special permission.

Washington-National has a similar, 1,250-mile rule.

Because of limited customs and immigration facilities, international traffic at both LGA or DCA, is limited mostly to flights to and from Canada.

PS



Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9755 posts, RR: 31
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10384 times:



Quoting United_Fan (Reply 13):
I'm pretty sure DL put a 764 in there .

I was talking about the 70s and three hole wide bodies.

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 17):
On top of everything, it would give the potential users a feeling of exclusivity comparable to when they were flying Concorde..

Exactly . FIS inspection for the 40/50 people twice a day could take place there as well, no big deal.

.

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 18):
LGA did have tatl flights operated by Pan Am Clippers from 1939-1941 unitl the outbreak of WWII

From the very place. Marine Air Terminal.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineEXTspotter From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10250 times:

BA LCY flights are A318, not A319. 2 A318s are on order and should arrive within the next year.


AF BE BY FR MV PD SZ U2 VZ DHC6, 8-3/4Q, 732/8, 763ER, A319, A380
User currently offlineGCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1452 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10168 times:

So, is the conclusion that it is ONLY the perimeter rule that is stopping BA flying LCY-SNN-LGA and LGA-LCY?
If it is, it is a shame that the application of an artificial rule is stopping the operation of a useful service.
Throwing the cat amongst the pigeons, could BA use Open Skies as an argument to open up LGA access?



Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A388,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,B462,(..51 types..),VC10,WESX
25 Cubsrule : I don't know; the stop at SNN would be decidedly unattractive. You might as well fly to another NYC airport and spend the time that the stop takes ge
26 Nycbjr : I think boeing had LGA in mind when designing the 767.. tho I could be wrong.
27 GCT64 : Except that the upcoming LCY-JFK service is already stopping anyway in SNN fo refuel and undergo pre-clearance, so that bit is already decided. So I
28 Viscount724 : Also Nassau (US Airways Saturday only) and Aruba (CO Saturday only). Like the 3 Canadian cities with service to LGA (YUL/YYZ/YOW), NAS and AUA have U
29 N104UA : Is the stop in SNN going to save more time than flying LHR or LGW-JFK?
30 Viscount724 : Total elapsed time will be longer but passengers will save a lot of time by being able to use LCY which has very short check-in times, fast baggage-c
31 YULWinterSkies : Technically yes. I don't think runway length is an issue for an A318 to take off with full load.
32 KPHXFlyer : Not only that but isn't the BA A318s intended for the JFK-LCY service to be all Club World Travleler (Business class lie-flat) and only about 50 pass
33 DiscoverCSG : Legally, yes. Does anybody know how much runway a 50J A318 would need to take off NYC-LON?
34 AussieItaliano : That would create an uproar among US airlines who actually sued the Port Authority of NY/NJ (I forget exactly when) regarding the rule. The Federal C
35 Zoom530 : Just as an aside... Since the Port Authority of NY/NJ has authorized the development of Stewart International (KSWF) as the 4th major jetport serving
36 Xtoler : Yes, seen F9 out there quite a bit, and never thought anything of it. But that is such a crowded airport, and the airspace around it is pretty conges
37 DocLightning : Typo. It is the M60, of course. "This is 125th st. Transfer is available to the 4 and 5 trains. Connection is available to the M60 Bus to LaGuardia A
38 QFA380 : Except during that stop passengers can pre-clear immigration into the US. So as soon as they get off the plane in New York they can leave, I'm sure B
39 Cubsrule : If BA is so intent on making this as quick as possible a trip from downtown to downtown, why in the world aren't they flying to EWR? There's somethin
40 Viscount724 : Yes, all J class and just 32 seats on the BA A318s.
41 Cslusarc : I thought that "Club World" and "World Traveller" were two distinct classes of service. KPHXFlyer I think you got this wrong.
42 DocLightning : They do fly to EWR. In fact, when I went to Spain, I chose EWR as my departure/arrival point from NYC over JFK precisely because I didn't want to spe
43 Post contains links KPHXFlyer : Quite possible. According to BA's website, they offer four classes of service: "First" is first class, "Club World" is business class, "World Travele
44 DiscoverCSG : Well, that was a national election year, so it's entirely possible President Bush flew up on the 757 for a fundraiser or campaign stop. Come to think
45 FlyingClrs727 : But they didn't use the runways at LGA either.
46 FlyingClrs727 : Well when you consider each A318 will only have 32 business class seats, there should be plenty of room in the overhead bins.
47 Analog : That would still allow a redeye leaving at 12:01AM Saturday and returning later that day, plus a return leaving on Saturday evening (would a Sunday L
48 Cubsrule : Yes. Not for the LCY service, and that's weird if they really are looking to save as much time as possible, as as you point out, JFK can be VERY unpl
49 EXTspotter : St. Pierre and Miquelon?
50 Burkhard : One thing that could help the NYC air space is a really good, fast ground transport between JFK and LGA. This is an outstanding problem since 30 years
51 STT757 : BA has been serving EWR for 20 years, VS has been serving EWR for 24 years. EWR-LGW was VS's first route.
52 Richierich : I believe this is accurate, just as Douglas did with the DC-10 and Lockheed with the L-1011. However, I don't think Boeing anticipated trans-Atlantic
53 Milesrich : For the reasons stated above, no LON-LGA service will be allowed. Historically, LGA had transatlantic service after the flying boat era. From 1946 to
54 Cubsrule : Once again (for the third time), I was talking about the LCY service, which is to JFK.
55 Viscount724 : And various foreign carriers including Air France, KLM, Swissair, BOAC and probably a few others that had started service to NYC before IDL opened.
56 OzarkD9S : OK. So in theory: LCY-SNN-LGA-YHZ-LCY is possible.
57 Analog : Spoil sport; I was hoping to confuse a few more people. No (except on Saturdays). SNN is over 1500mi from LGA. What about LCY-YYT-LGA or LCY-YQX-LGA?
58 Cubsrule : I wonder whether LGA's FIS facility has space to park a 318... I don't know where on the airport it is (and, obviously, the Port Authority and CBP wo
59 N1120A : That, and the tiny FIS would be the main issues. Yes there are. There are customs. Just not a large facility. The short runways wouldn't be an issue
60 Viscount724 : I doubt it, and what would the point be even if it could? It wouldn't be able to operate nonstop LGA-LCY on the eastbound trip due to the LGA permite
61 Mir : There is, but it's a GA customs facility and can't handle airliners in its current state. Since there's a wingspan limit, you couldn't fly a 777 or 7
62 Cubsrule : BA's 318 will hardly hold more people than a couple of large biz jets, though.
63 Mir : But one large bizjet arriving at LGA internationally is a rarity. Several at the same time would overwhelm the facility. -Mir
64 Cubsrule : How small of a facility are we talking about?
65 Mir : Small enough that it's not regularly staffed. LGA is a "landing rights airport", meaning that you can land there, but you have to call ahead and get
66 Cubsrule : JFK is also a "landing rights airport." I'm confused.
67 Pnwtraveler : There isn't room for BA because Trump parks his 727 there and since he is the King of New York no one is going to make him move. :P Seriously there ar
68 Analog : The point? A flight between the Business Traveler's Favorite Airport and the Business Traveller's Favourite Airport. Does the UK have the same crazy
69 Pellegrine : Wow I didn't even know bizjets could operate internationally out of LGA. Very Interesting.
70 N1120A : Which is still enough to completely clog up the works.
71 Pnwtraveler : With so many less clogged business airports around there isn't much demand for business traffic to LGA. Why fly into an airport that is so slot restri
72 Viscount724 : But another eastbound fuel stop would increase costs significantly, and in my experience any fuel stop, even if you're only on the ground for half an
73 Analog : I was assuming it would add an hour to the flight time: "An hour spent in a C seat is a lot nicer than 30-45 minutes extra travel time to the airport
74 Viscount724 : Just the fuel stop alone increases fuel consumption compared to a nonstop. And there would be extra crew costs as part of crew salaries is normally p
75 Analog : The important thing is what's the percentage increase in overall costs? How much higher would the fares have to be?
76 Viscount724 : With current economic issues and high fuel prices, BA will no doubt want to avoid any unnecessary costs. And companies will start tigthening up on tr
77 TransIsland : Last time I flew from LHR to the US (don't remember whether MIA or JFK... looong time ago), LHR had US preclearance, in other words flights into dome
78 DiscoverCSG : When was "a looong time ago?" Can someone confirm or refute this?
79 TransIsland : If I had to guess, I would say 1990-92... if I remember correctly, I had only one baby brother instead of two. [edited to correct years][Edited 2008-
80 Richierich : I've been travelling trans-Atlantic flights, periodically, for years and I've never heard of this. I can only guess that you are either mistaken or i
81 DocLightning : Guys, really, LGA is not so great. Yes, it's closer to Manhattan than either JFK or EWR. However, it is a smaller airport than either of the others. I
82 Flighty : You're really a New Yorker, and you're really going to say that so casually?
83 DocLightning : 1) Depends on when you're going. It can take 1.5 hours to LGA if you decide you really need to go at 5:15 PM on a Tuesday. 2) I live on the UES. Howe
84 Post contains links TransIsland : I suppose I could be mistaken, but now that you mention it, I have a vague memory of hearing that LHR preclearance was stopped after only a short tim
85 Viscount724 : To the best of my memory that is not correct. With such massive traffic from LHR to the U.S. they would require so many staff that I doubt they could
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No Direct Flights From Pakistan To USA posted Sat Aug 12 2006 23:23:16 by LAXDESI
Flights From UK To Florida posted Tue Aug 16 2005 15:48:19 by Laddb
Why No AH Flights From London To Oran? posted Wed Mar 2 2005 14:22:57 by Orion737
Why So Few Flights From CCU To Mid East? posted Tue May 20 2003 18:20:16 by Pe@rson
Flights From UK To Skiathos And Santorini posted Tue Jul 9 2002 13:52:05 by GKirk
Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC? posted Thu Jun 21 2007 03:01:39 by Impacto
WHY NO Flights From PWM To Canada? posted Tue Mar 20 2007 02:54:48 by RoyalAtlantis
Why No Direct Flights From Hawaii To Tahiti? posted Mon Jan 12 2004 18:58:26 by Mirrodie
Why No Direct Flights From LGW/LHR/MAN To HNL? posted Wed Apr 12 2006 23:20:08 by Ba757gla
No More Flights From Russia To Spitzbergen? posted Wed May 30 2007 21:44:44 by Mozart
No Direct Flights From Pakistan To USA posted Sat Aug 12 2006 23:23:16 by LAXDESI
Flights From UK To Florida posted Tue Aug 16 2005 15:48:19 by Laddb
Why No AH Flights From London To Oran? posted Wed Mar 2 2005 14:22:57 by Orion737
Why So Few Flights From CCU To Mid East? posted Tue May 20 2003 18:20:16 by Pe@rson
Flights From UK To Skiathos And Santorini posted Tue Jul 9 2002 13:52:05 by GKirk
Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC? posted Thu Jun 21 2007 03:01:39 by Impacto
WHY NO Flights From PWM To Canada? posted Tue Mar 20 2007 02:54:48 by RoyalAtlantis