Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
AC Dropping YYZ-FCO And YVR-KIX In October  
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25871 posts, RR: 22
Posted (6 years 7 months 12 hours ago) and read 5695 times:

AC has announced that they are dropping YYZ-FCO and YVR-KIX with the start of the winter schedule on October 25 since the routes will be uneconomic with expected high fuel prices. They say that current plans are to resume YYZ-FCO for the summer 2009 period but plans for reinstating YVR-KIX sound less definite. They say the aircraft used on these routes will be redeployed to more profitable opportunities elsewhere.

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1568 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 12 hours ago) and read 5687 times:

Another city KIX loses service to...:-(

What other routes have a chance of being axed?



The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineDYK From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 407 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 12 hours ago) and read 5665 times:

I have a feeling that SQ will take over the route KIX-YVR. SQ is cuurently negotiating with the Canadian Government for another intermediate stop other than ICN. Would seem logical as AC could possible code share in this sector?


AC,CP,PW,WD,ND,UA,AA,NW,CO,DL,WA,AS,QX,PR,SQ,AI,TG,MH,JL,9W,IC,UL,PG,BW,NZ,QF,DJ,BA,LH,KL,OA,OS,ME,RJ,HA,AQ
User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 12 hours ago) and read 5632 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Thread starter):
AC has announced that they are dropping YYZ-FCO and YVR-KIX with the start of the winter schedule on October 25 since the routes will be uneconomic with expected high fuel prices.

Not surprising at all! Air Canada is well known for struggling in Italy. As for KIX, I'd say it was overdue!!! What's next ICN?


User currently offlineUPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 12 hours ago) and read 5601 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Thread starter):
They say the aircraft used on these routes will be redeployed to more profitable opportunities elsewhere.

Is YYZ-MAD an option? it has been rumoured for quite some time now



744,742,741,772,773,762,732,735,738,752,727,717,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,319,320,321,343,346,L1011,CRJ2,CRJ9,E190,ATR42,DSH8,
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25871 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 11 hours ago) and read 5556 times:



Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 4):
Quoting Viscount724 (Thread starter):
They say the aircraft used on these routes will be redeployed to more profitable opportunities elsewhere.

Is YYZ-MAD an option? it has been rumoured for quite some time now

It's more than a rumour. AC announced daily YYZ-MAD-YYZ service using 767-300ER starting June 15, 2008 about six months ago and it has been bookable for quite a while. It was intended to operate year round with reduced frequency during the winter but I suppose economic factors, especially the fuel price situation, could affect those plans although I have not seen anything official changing the original AC announcement below.
http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi...y=1510102222&view=13213-0&Start=50


User currently offlineRafabozzolla From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 1236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 11 hours ago) and read 5555 times:

Does AC currently operate YUL-FCO? If so, are they keeping it?

User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8457 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 11 hours ago) and read 5455 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Air Canada operated Vancouver to Osaka as their first route to Japan, Canadian was the big airline to ASia at the time. For AC this gave them presence in Japan not necesarily a profitable one. When Canadian was taken over by AC then they finally got to Tokyo, they flew both YYZ & YVR to NRT nonstop. Today after the 744 are long gone, the new 777 fly this wonderful routes.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25871 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 10 hours ago) and read 5412 times:



Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 6):
Does AC currently operate YUL-FCO? If so, are they keeping it?

No, AC does not operate YUL-FCO. They had seasonal summer-only service YUL-FCO for a couple of years not too long ago. I forget whether that service operated last summer or not.

Canada-Italy has always been a difficult route (AC inherited that route from Canadian Airlines/CP Air) since there's little high yield business traffic and the rest of the tourist and visit friends/relatives traffic is very seasonal, and much of it connects to points in southern Italy where many Italian emigrants to Canada originated. AC is better to use codeshare alliance connections with LH who serve almost every significant city in Italy. At one time LH carried more traffic between Canada and Italy than any other carrier including the national carriers. That may still be the case today.


User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 10 hours ago) and read 5343 times:



Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 3):
Not surprising at all! Air Canada is well known for struggling in Italy

What about the Alitalia effect? That could have in impact on AC, now that AZ's YYZ flights are from FCO instead of MXP.


User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 10 hours ago) and read 5287 times:

Interesting that the same cities - KIX and FCO - are the same cities that are difficult to make work as part of the AC network, as they for Qantas out of Australia. Part of the Qantas solution has been to turn Jetstar into a Long Haul Low Cost Carrier, with A330-200s, to be followed with 787s. The lower cost product will eventually be offered on flights between Australia and Southern Europe - a one stop service.

Perhaps if AC gave a couple of A332s to a low cost subsidiary (revive Tango) that would be one way of serving low yield markets. I think it was a bit harder for Qantas in Japan, because the Japanese wholesalers thought that Jetstar looked like a second class product.

There are some other Canadian carriers who go to Italy, are there not?


User currently offlineYegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1732 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 9 hours ago) and read 5158 times:

where would the aircraft be deplyed??? especially at the start of the fall/winter season

User currently offlineMarcoPoloWorld From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 649 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 8 hours ago) and read 5055 times:

Surprising to some extent, I guess.... I much prefer KIX over NRT for transfers between North America and Asia. KIX is modern and uncongested, and perfect for both O/D and xfer pax..... I just avoid Tokyo....

User currently offlineDC10sRULE From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 8 hours ago) and read 5018 times:



Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 1):
Another city KIX loses service to...:-(

Who else has stopped serving KIX or is planning to??

Also, with AC switching GRU and either EZE or SCL (Not sure which one or both??) to B777, + canceling KIX and FCO that frees up approx 5 B763s. Lot's of potential there I'm sure.

Take Care!

JA



Giggity-Giggity..!
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3728 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 6 hours ago) and read 4890 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Thread starter):
They say the aircraft used on these routes will be redeployed to more profitable opportunities elsewhere.

Please, let it be YYZ-GIG...  crossfingers 


User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2648 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 6 hours ago) and read 4889 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):
No, AC does not operate YUL-FCO. They had seasonal summer-only service YUL-FCO for a couple of years not too long ago. I forget whether that service operated last summer or not.

AC started YUL-FCO last year, on a summer seasonal basis, and it will not be back this year for the obvious reasons. As far as i know, 2007 was the only year AC operated to FCO from YUL after Canadian's demise.



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2648 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 6 hours ago) and read 4880 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):
No, AC does not operate YUL-FCO. They had seasonal summer-only service YUL-FCO for a couple of years not too long ago. I forget whether that service operated last summer or not.

AC started YUL-FCO last year, on a summer seasonal basis, and it will not be back this year for the obvious reasons. As far as i know, 2007 was the only year AC operated to FCO from YUL after Canadian's demise.



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months ago) and read 4646 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 14):
Please, let it be YYZ-GIG...

Keep whishing!! Under the current market situations (oil prices) I don't see a lot of potential for AC in long haul service. They can't even make their YVR pacific hub work! Europe is getting close to saturation. What's left??? Latin American???


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4441 times:

KIX is just too expensive to land at, and with the fuel prices today, not much airlines must be finding it profitable to fly there.

About the 5 freed up 767s, BOG service has been rumoured to be upgraded to daily soon (though i think they have to change the bilateral).


User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1666 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4430 times:

The scenario being contemplated for this winter is for AC to reduce 767-200 flying, possibly even phase out that aircraft type if it can find a few A321s to augment its narrowbody fleet.

User currently offlineBrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4389 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4414 times:

Would AC not code share this flight with ANA and thus feed pax between the two airlines?


Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineRicardofg From Spain, joined Feb 2005, 677 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4342 times:

Not to mention today Zoom Airlines starts YYZ-FCO, Air Transat is talking about starting the same route, plus Alitalia, and Air One is talking about starting YYZ service next year...the route is saturated!

User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3728 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4303 times:



Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 17):
Keep whishing!! Under the current market situations (oil prices) I don't see a lot of potential for AC in long haul service. They can't even make their YVR pacific hub work! Europe is getting close to saturation. What's left??? Latin American???

I will, but they have to either fly elsewhere or store the planes.


User currently offlinePnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2280 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4269 times:

Yes exactly they want to park the 762ER and the 763 is a little too big for the route into Italy. The cheaper fares on the charters like Zoom will be attractive to those who are flying to Italy to visit family. One travel agent told me that increasingly people are getting tired of the strikes at Italian airports and are beginning to fly into other cities and using the train more. The point that business seat sales are soft is an important one. If AC is getting low yields from the route then they are better booking people into Frankfurt and flying into Italy from there.

User currently offlineChinook747 From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4249 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):


Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 4):
Quoting Viscount724 (Thread starter):
They say the aircraft used on these routes will be redeployed to more profitable opportunities elsewhere.

Is YYZ-MAD an option? it has been rumoured for quite some time now

It's more than a rumour. AC announced daily YYZ-MAD-YYZ service using 767-300ER starting June 15, 2008 about six months ago and it has been bookable for quite a while. It was intended to operate year round with reduced frequency during the winter but I suppose economic factors, especially the fuel price situation, could affect those plans although I have not seen anything official changing the original AC announcement below.

I have clients flying this route this summer..and I booked it for them back in January


25 Chinook747 : I agree...everyday I have clients who want more direct South America options without having to transit vis the USA
26 9252fly : It's going to be a challenge finding A321's. What you state makes sense,it's no surprise that AC intends to eventually park the B762 fleet especially
27 LIPZ : According to Air Canada's webiste it looks like the carrier will operate YYZ-FCO as from 21th February 2009, initially three times per week. Then it w
28 AF086 : That would be a good idea but would require a new bilateral unless AC chooses to make a tag-on to GIG on their GRU flight.
29 BrisseDK : How about AC came back to CPH. They had great loads from here last time they tried, unfortunately I think the yields weren't quite where they should b
30 C010T3 : I don't think JJ would have anything against AC expanding, since they haven't shown any signs of wanting to fly to Canada anytime soon. They would on
31 GuyBetsy1 : AC should open up a permemant flight from YVR direct to FRA and CDG without having a codeshare with LH.
32 Ktachiya : WOW!!! Embarassing for KIX. They are not in the middle of anywhere in terms of pax numbers, and they just expanded the second rwy to make it the first
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Why Is AC's 777 No Longer Flying YVR-NRT In Oct? posted Sun Jun 3 2007 08:56:21 by CA228
LY Charters To KIX In October posted Tue Sep 5 2006 17:50:04 by Amirs
DL Increases JFK-FCO And JFK-ATH In Aug/Sep posted Fri May 5 2006 19:06:32 by Panamair
Did AC Split YYZ CCS And YYZ POS posted Fri Oct 7 2005 07:17:16 by CayMan
AC DEL-YYZ;now Making Tech Stops In CDG posted Fri Nov 7 2003 23:31:28 by FLYYUL
AC Suspends YYZ-FCO/MAD posted Thu Aug 14 2003 21:11:40 by MAH4546
What Are The Antonovs Doing In YYZ And Yvr? posted Fri Jul 19 2002 14:48:56 by Airbus Lover
AC YYZ-CCS And YYZ-POS posted Thu Mar 6 2008 15:57:07 by CayMan
AC YYZ-TLV-YYZ Weight And Balance? posted Tue Feb 5 2008 15:55:04 by ZBBYLW
AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008! posted Fri Nov 23 2007 14:22:38 by Ghost77
AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008! posted Fri Nov 23 2007 14:22:38 by Ghost77
LY Charters To KIX In October posted Tue Sep 5 2006 17:50:04 by Amirs
DL Increases JFK-FCO And JFK-ATH In Aug/Sep posted Fri May 5 2006 19:06:32 by Panamair
Did AC Split YYZ CCS And YYZ POS posted Fri Oct 7 2005 07:17:16 by CayMan
AC DEL-YYZ;now Making Tech Stops In CDG posted Fri Nov 7 2003 23:31:28 by FLYYUL
AC Suspends YYZ-FCO/MAD posted Thu Aug 14 2003 21:11:40 by MAH4546
What Are The Antonovs Doing In YYZ And Yvr? posted Fri Jul 19 2002 14:48:56 by Airbus Lover
AC YYZ-CCS And YYZ-POS posted Thu Mar 6 2008 15:57:07 by CayMan
AC YYZ-TLV-YYZ Weight And Balance? posted Tue Feb 5 2008 15:55:04 by ZBBYLW
AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008! posted Fri Nov 23 2007 14:22:38 by Ghost77