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Delta Gives 3 Percent Raises To Nonunion Employees  
User currently offlineMCOAviationFan From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 247 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5950 times:

DL announced today a 3% raise for non-union employees effective July 1. Interesting development being that fuel is so high and they just reported earnings for a very difficult 1st quarter.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080502/delta_raises.html?.v=5

102 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAloha73G From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2354 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5925 times:

Incentive to vote "No" to a union....

"they just gave us a RAISE!!"

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineCatIII From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3029 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5892 times:



Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 1):

 checkmark 

Exactly. AFA elections coming up. Coincidence? I think not...


User currently offlineCpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 38
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5846 times:

Disgusting and dirty tricks.  Sad

User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1555 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5799 times:



Quoting Cpd (Reply 3):
Disgusting and dirty tricks. Sad

It's only a disgusting and dirty trick if they take the raise away after the vote.



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13508 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5801 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Cpd (Reply 3):
Disgusting and dirty tricks.

I know! How DARE they give their employees more money? What's next - improved flight benefits on NW?  Wink



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineAloha73G From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2354 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5764 times:



Quoting Cpd (Reply 3):
Disgusting and dirty tricks.

How so?

I would rather work for a non-union company in a unionized industry.

The threat of unions keeps DL honest. They give their workers raises frequently, pay them above industry average and generally treat them fairly well.

When was the last time a unionized carrier (or any kind of unionized company) gave their workers a raise "just because"???? It has probably never happened.

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7801 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5699 times:



Quoting Cpd (Reply 3):
Disgusting and dirty tricks.

I've concluded that no matter what Delta does, somebody won't like it. They could of lowered everyone else 3% instead, would that be better?



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineUSAFDO From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5680 times:

Now that DL has purchased NW, and they are merged...already acting as one company (i.e. expending pass travel to all DL employees), do the NW F/A's also get this pay raise also since they are now part of DL?

User currently offlineARGinLON From Vatican City, joined Jun 2005, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5671 times:



Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 6):
The threat of unions keeps DL honest. They give their workers raises frequently, pay them above industry average and generally treat them fairly well

Any ideas how much they pay in Scheduling/Planning jobs with a master degree? At least low 70s??


User currently offline611ATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5668 times:

It's just the flight attendants who are in the midst of a vote for unionization right now. These pay increases cover all scale employees and have been in the works for quite some time. They wouldn't give the whole company a raise just to keep 14,000 of us from organizing! Since DL emerged from Chapter 11 the executive leadership has stated time and time again that all DL employees deserve to be paid at or above industry standard and has stuck to their published timelines for the pay reviews. If DL couldn't afford the raise they wouldn't have announced it. Besides, we took some pretty deep cuts and labor is currently very "efficient" and low-cost for Delta. Had our quarterly earnings been better, we may have gotten a 5-8% increase...who knows?!

User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5664 times:



Quoting Cpd (Reply 3):
Disgusting and dirty tricks.

Not hardly! I wish they would do that at my work!!!!! LOL!!!!



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5645 times:

Great job Delta - that's why you're #1 in my book. You do all you can to take care of the employees that are taking care of me - your customer.

Anyone that lashes out at this move is just lashing for lashing's sake.



Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineAndyinPIT From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 320 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5629 times:



Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 6):
When was the last time a unionized carrier (or any kind of unionized company) gave their workers a raise "just because"???? It has probably never happened.

IAM employees at UA just got a 2% raise instead of the quarterly sucess sharing checks...


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9289 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5597 times:



Quoting Cpd (Reply 3):
Disgusting and dirty tricks.

Yea dam them for give them pay raises I vote we just take Anderson out back and shoot him and then give them all a 50-60% pay cut.  Yeah sure  banghead 

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):
I've concluded that no matter what Delta does, somebody won't like it. They could of lowered everyone else 3% instead, would that be better?

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

Quoting USAFDO (Reply 8):
Now that DL has purchased NW, and they are merged...already acting as one company (i.e. expending pass travel to all DL employees), do the NW F/A's also get this pay raise also since they are now part of DL?

1) merger not done yet got to pass DOJ
2) Only NON-Union which would leave all of NW and the DALPA out.



yep.
User currently offlineLono From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1335 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5556 times:

Does this bring the DL employees back up to where they were before they took the last paycuts???


Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
User currently offlineUSAFDO From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5521 times:

If the DL F/A get unionized, do they still get to keep the rate increase?

User currently offline611ATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5521 times:



Quoting Lono (Reply 16):
Does this bring the DL employees back up to where they were before they took the last paycuts???

I'm not sure as each employee group varies. A lot of the cuts in In-Flight (F/As) were changes to the work rules, premiums for health insurance (it was SWEET when it was entirely free), reduction in sick time (which they recently enhanced but we still have very few days at full pay), etc. So it's hard to gauge as our whole "benefits package" has been altered completely. As far as actual hourly pay rates go, it brings us pretty close to where we were a few years ago. Still not as high as before 9/11, but who is? Well, besides WN!  Smile


User currently offline611ATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5505 times:



Quoting USAFDO (Reply 17):
If the DL F/A get unionized, do they still get to keep the rate increase?

Yes. The F/As will continue to work under their current work rules and pay until a contract is negotiated and ratified (could take a while). The only down side is if DL dishes out pay increases during negotiations, the F/As won't automatically get them (since we'd be operating in our "status quo" state).


User currently offlineUSAFDO From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5470 times:

If the DL F/A's don't get their raises because they brought in the union, that would probably mean the company lied to them.... given that the company has implied their wages right now are below standard, and they want to bring them back up.

User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5460 times:



Quoting USAFDO (Reply 17):
If the DL F/A get unionized, do they still get to keep the rate increase?

contrary to above, very doubtful - at least once a contract is implemented. There is no assurance that anything DL flight attendants have today will remain in a contract - and there is no requirement that DL would keep anything.

This pay raise really has nothing to do with the flight attendants. DL has said since they came out of bankruptcy that they would be giving pay raises as often as they could until their employees reached industry average pay. They stated their intentions of having a pay raise this year long before the election was certified.

There is no doubt that DL uses its compensation policies to do what is in its best interests which include keeping unions away. But remember that unionized companies also sit on pay increases just to frustrate their unions so I'm not sure why this should be viewed as anything more sinister. Delta, like every airline, is a business and will act in its own best interests.


User currently offlineUSAFDO From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5401 times:

Just think of all the money they could have given to the DL F/A instead of the millions and millions of dollars of company money they have squandered & wasted away by hiring their union busting company to combat the union trying to come in to make everything "fair & equitable".

I hope the DL F/A's realize their only hope for any type of protection is to vote that union in.....


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5400 times:



Quoting 611ATL (Reply 10):
Since DL emerged from Chapter 11 the executive leadership has stated time and time again that all DL employees deserve to be paid at or above industry standard

...as well as the CEO Anderson.. stirthepot  duck 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineDL1011 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 386 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5376 times:



Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 6):
How so?

I would rather work for a non-union company in a unionized industry.

The threat of unions keeps DL honest. They give their workers raises frequently, pay them above industry average and generally treat them fairly well.

The AMT pay is close to the bottom of the industry and the 18% paycut has hardly been restored even with last years 3.5% raise and now a 3% (I wonder if that will only be on the base rate again). Many AMT's are still heading out the door, finding better jobs and not looking back. As far as delta being honest...  biggrin 
How a company that sets up protected pensions for the management and then whacks the employee's pension plan be called honest is way beyond me.


User currently offlinePhaetonFell From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5375 times:



Quoting USAFDO (Reply 22):
I hope the DL F/A's realize their only hope for any type of protection is to vote that union in.....

Yeah, because they've been so mistreated and maligned. And now on top of it, management has the gall to force a 3% increase down their throat; with barely any advance notice and totally without their consent at that!

Listen, DL has been largely non-union as long as they have because they strategically care about their employees. Strategically; meaning that they take care of their employees not because they are a bunch of nice executives who's secret mission is to bring joy to people's lives, but because it is in their own best interest to do so, i.e. they are a business and it makes good business sense to be non-union.

There is a reason that unionization efforts have failed there in the past and it's largely because the majority (an important number in this case) do NOT feel that they need to pay someone else to communicate with mgmt. Mgmt has done a pretty good job of keeping lines of communication open, and they have largely stuck by their words when possible.

Example: they said they would raise pay and, by golly, those sinister devils have the audacity to follow through. This is obviously meant as a slap in the face to the employee.


25 USAFDO : PatetonFell........you are so out of touch with reality.... It's so amusing. There are thousands & thousands of DL F/A's that would beg to differ with
26 PhaetonFell : Glad I could brighten your day. But I would appreciate if you would enlighten me and point out where I'm off? Is there another reason DL hasn't been m
27 PhaetonFell : Also, USAFDO, if you could extend me the basic courtesy of addressing me by my actual handle I would consider it a personal favor.
28 Post contains links USAFDO : Read all about it............ http://www.deltaafa.org/
29 PhaetonFell : Thanks for the effort, but a union run website is not something I put a lot of stock in the veracity of. We can agree on this: on midnight of the 23rd
30 611ATL : There are also a large number of F/As who don't care for the AFA and aren't voting (it's the only way to vote 'no'). The pro-AFA ones are just a bit
31 WorldTraveler : it is also likely that just based on the numbers of FAs at both DL and NW that there will be another union election in a couple of years. Even if DL's
32 Tu154m : Nope......with the 3% last year and this 3% most are still 13% below what they were at and still near the bottom of the industry.
33 Cpd : It's a dirty trick because it is discriminatory based on the status of one being a union member or not. All workers should get equal rights, there sh
34 611ATL : The only group being left-out are the pilots (and I believe some dispatchers). For the most part, DL is a non-union company. It's not discriminatory
35 SkyguyB727 : Back in the mid-90s, the AAirline I worked for gave an average of 6% merit raises. It sure was nice to go from $5.50 per hour to $5.85 per hour after
36 RampGuy : Would someone tell me if this raise includes Delta's subsidiary companies like Delta Global (DGS) and Delta Technology? Do those employees get a raise
37 FlyPNS1 : Historically, the South has not been fond of unionization. This benefits DL as a disproportionate number of DL employees are Southerners. Why's that?
38 NWAESC : There's also a drive right now to organize the ramp and agents. I know you know the answer, but for everyone else, that would be a big "no."
39 Mayor : Ahem, excuse me?? The ONLY unions at DL at this time is ALPA and the small group of dispatchers....that's it. How can this be discriminatory?
40 Mayor : It would be interesting to see the figures on this, if any were available. I think you might be surprised to see that Southerners aren't as large a m
41 EXAAUADL : Im not anti-union, but really what have private sector unions accomplished for their members since say 1980??
42 NWAESC : ...As well as all of the DL fanboys....
43 Mayor : Only because I worked there.
44 FlyPNS1 : I'm sure there aren't as many as there was in the past, but the Southern contingent is still quite large. They are a large enough block to still have
45 NWAESC : I know... And while I was responding to your post, I wasn't counting you in the "fanboy" mix.
46 EXAAUADL : probably not
47 Mayor : They are not considered "Frontline" employees. Thank you. I doubt that. Their retirement benefits weren't as good so it's unlikely that many of them
48 PhaetonFell : Unless you've got demographics to support this, I don't think that's a point worth discussing. Given the spread of crew bases and the amount of FAs t
49 CatIII : Can you share with us the the rates and work rules that AFA negotiated for the NW F/A's that are superior to DL's?
50 Dl757md : It was announced earlier this year that AMT license premiums would be restored to $2.00/hr/license effective July 1. DL757Md
51 DocLightning : Unions are a mixed blessing. On the one hand, they lead to better pay for employees, better benefits, and stronger regulations for working conditions.
52 MCOAviationFan : Hardly discriminatory. A union works under a contract and pay raises or cuts will be according to what is in the contract. Now if you say the raise o
53 DL1011 : Thanks for the update!
54 NWAESC : Then they're not trying hard enough-or are afraid of a lawsuit. (and that's coming from someone that's militantly pro-union)
55 SNCntry32 : While generally yes, DL seems to treat thier employees well, it is always a good idea to have a strong voice to management when things start to go sou
56 Lono : Thanks for the info.... Based upon the response from Tu154m... I do know now... but I early outed back in 1995 and many of my former WA friends are i
57 CatIII : It is? Why? What did the DL f/a's miss out on during Chapter 11 that AFA would have gotten for them? Having a union for the sake of having a union do
58 PhaetonFell : When I was a ramp agent for PSA the only thing my union did for me was to take dues out of my already small paycheck. They were totally useless in try
59 WorldTraveler : good point Phaeton. It has been said that some of the most vocal anti-union people at DL are the former EA and PA employees that DL has hired. I think
60 CMHARJ : Explain this one to me anti-union fans. I used to work for an airline company that was unionized with their pilots, FAs, dispatchers and mechanics. Th
61 RDUDDJI : Once a contract is in place, they can't just "give" a raise. It has to be negotiated. Absolutely nothing for the honest employee, except steal a perc
62 CMHARJ : First off, I am not making any of this up. This is coming from working in a non-union airline department. I've called OSHA and my state's Department
63 Mayor : I used to work for a non-union airline, DL and we bid for shifts and vacations by seniority....no funny stuff, there. This was also at a small statio
64 CMHARJ : I meant to say non-union
65 DL1011 : Interesting stories. Here is one of mine. One of the delta stations that I worked at had a Manager that demanded that the Leads start work 1 hour befo
66 WorldTraveler : because there are laws to address all of the issues you say happened (even if they did). the story above shows that there are indeed managers of comp
67 NWAESC : Good post. Sad how common your story is/was... No problem there... and once it's negotiated, it can't be given or taken away on a whim. Except at NWA
68 BinMonster : I would have no issue with a union if the relationship of labor and management were more like the relationship at company like Toyota. Like you said y
69 Rwy04LGA : They must've driven past LGA without stopping. We're not merged yet and the FAs are not yet part of Delta But pass benefits for you and you family be
70 CatIII : Ok, so this whole posting is about what used to go on at a previous company? I don't know. Where do you work now? Are you a Delta F/A? Are your pay r
71 SCCutler : "Union Busting Company"? Huh? In order to comment about unions and their tactics, and the process of union elections, you have to have some basic und
72 Aloha73G : Delta's hourly rates are higher than Northwest's. NW AFA will argue, however, that their total package is worth more (sick leave, vacation, work rule
73 DL1011 : It might not have been their policy BUT when people complained to higher ups outside the station, Delta did NOTHING about it so that makes it Delta.[
74 RDUDDJI : I'm rational. I'd recommend trying it. I have no agenda, I've been on both sides. And currently I'm on neither (left the airline biz). No, actually t
75 DeltaGuy : If that's true, why are the pilots pulling such shitty pay? That's right, Jerry gouged every penny he could get. Nearly forgot. DeltaGuy
76 DL1011 : Yes it was fixed AFTER a very long time and after the State was called in because the company wouldn't deal with it. I really didn't want to get into
77 CMHARJ : You might want to know your research before opening your mouth. First off, our wonderful management who deeply cares about all their employees asked
78 NWAESC : Wrong. If you'd actually read it, you'd see that DL was unwilling to fix it, and the state had to get involved. I'd say that solidifies *my* argument
79 NWAESC : My guess would be that they're focusing on ATL, with SLC a close second. Doesn't make skipping the line stations right... I'm just sayin'. Absolutely
80 RDUDDJI : Your missing the point, the Union went along with this, willingly or not. The Union tells you that they "saved" your job, but in actuality, they nego
81 CatIII : Wait a second, you don't even work for Delta and you're on here ranting about how you're going to vote to unionize at Delta?
82 NWAESC : That'd be unwillingly, with Plan "B" being the complete aborgation (sp?) of the CBA, allowing NW to impose in full their terms. See the AMFA CBA for
83 Mayor : I never made more than about $40k a year at Delta and I doubt my benefits were worth $60k a year so this statement is just wrong. Unfortunately, I th
84 CatIII : But I thought NW was unionized already...?
85 Ocracoke : ] Because none of this is guaranteed. You might have it now, but will you have it after the next contract talks? Maybe yes, maybe no. But, in a sense,
86 RDUDDJI : Here's some "education" for ya on how CBA negotiations work. I've been involved with them in the past. Say airline XX has 80 mainline handled station
87 Mayor : Overtime is not a guaranteed thing so that doesn't count. Since the badges are good for about 5 years, that's not much of a cost and considering how
88 CMHARJ : I work for NW's red headed stepchild company. I perform the exact same duties as what NW's former 4 hour rule stations used to do. (cross utilized).
89 RDUDDJI : You quoted me, but I didn't say that. someone else did. You may not work overtime, but others do. It's an average for all FT emps. I worked at an air
90 Nwaesc : Actually, vis a vis the non-union guy, I have more in my pocket. At NW, non-union pay $295/mo. for insurance. I pay $177. That's just one single item
91 CatIII : Ok, so then, you'll be casting this vote at Delta when?
92 Mayor : Some of those cities never DID have DL people in them, either above or below wing. AZO/CID/DSM/SBN,LSE did not....they were handled by DL connection
93 Mayor : But it's NOT considered when figuring up your total wage and benefits package.....neither is training, lost time injuries,managers wages, HR people,
94 Lono : Excellent Mayor.... I agree 100 percent.. I heard DL fired DGS in SEA and they are trying to get their old rampies back... which is a move in the rig
95 Rwy04LGA : I'll take that bet. I beg to differ. Please list the 14 stations. Thanks.
96 Nwaesc : The ones I have are: ATL, JFK, SLC, CVG, LAX, LGA, BOS, MCO, EWR, DCA, FLL, TPA, HNL, & MSY. Did I miss any? If so, please let me know....
97 DL1011 : True and that's why I tried to disclose that they are related (both deal with large a/c) but are different. My main point was that the non-union comp
98 Ocracoke : I had to get some help on this one, for I don't know the situation at some of these cities. I do know that SMF and DAY are DL mainline above wing. My
99 RDUDDJI : Employees *are* a cost of doing business. I don't understand what you are saying. It doesn't matter whether you or I recognize healthcare, or trainin
100 Mayor : Of course it costs the company, but to say that Rampers are overpaid because the total expense to the company, per person meets or exceeds $100k a ye
101 NWAESC : Were you involved in the talks at NWA? If you actually participated in what you described in post 86, then you are at worst guilty of conspiracy and/
102 M404 : I'd put this "pre-planned" increase said to have been known from the exit from BK as another Timing planned long before that by both carriers either d
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