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AA Bans Boston Skycap Tipping  
User currently offlineAJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 733 posts, RR: 15
Posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6766 times:

Ouch! This is hitting the little guy where it hurts.

I know for certian that the $2 fee has cut into tips. How could it not? It would be more fair if a percentage of the two dollars went to the skycaps, but it does not. And to make matters worse if a passenger gives the skycap less than $2 per bag they have to make the difference up out of their own pockets. AJMIA

--- AA Bans Boston Skycap Tipping ---

BOSTON (AP 5/2/2008) --- American Airlines said Thursday it will no longer allow skycaps to accept tips from passengers at Logan International Airport, following a jury's award of $325,000 to nine skycaps who said the airline's $2-per-bag curbside check-in fee deeply cut into their tips and violated Massachusetts' tips law.

American said it banned tipping in light of the jury verdict, as well as a new amendment to state laws that will make triple damages automatic for companies who do not pay full wages or overtime. The policy does not apply to skycaps at other airports around the country.

The airline also said it would ask the federal court to throw out the jury's April 7 verdict.

The company American contracts with to provide curbside check-in, G2 Services, will raise the hourly wages of skycaps to $12 to $15 per hour, which is well above the state's $8-per-hour minimum wage. Most skycaps now earn $5.15 per hour, and say they have traditionally made most of their money through tips.

Shannon Liss-Riordan, a lawyer for the skycaps, called the no-tips policy "retaliatory" and said she would seek a court injunction to stop it.


Tim Wagner, a spokesman for American, said the airline decided to prohibit tips altogether to ensure it does not violate the state's wage and tips law


Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1730 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6720 times:

Right, and I'm sure that because its now a rule and wages have been raised, skycaps will politely refuse to accept a tip.  Yeah sure

[Edited 2008-05-02 20:21:39]

User currently offline1821 From Greece, joined Jul 2007, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6709 times:

How on earth is anyone suppose to make a decent living? Tipping is relied upon heavylly in any insustry especially in the aviation industry. This is really disturbing. I say if they tip u don't report it simple!!!!


734 , 737 , 738 , 742 , 744 , 757 , 767 , A320 , AVRO RJ 100 , ATR 72 . ATH , ZTH , RHO , EFL , LHR , MAN , DUB , AMS ,
User currently offlineSoxfan From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 865 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6645 times:

Let me get this straight: They're going to ban tipping but not increase the wage? I agree with 1821, how do they expect the Skycaps to make a living? I posted a thread last month about how the Skycaps won the $325,000 award and I had a feeling that AA would appeal, but I certainly didn't expect them to take this step.

I know that airlines are trying to save money any way they can, but I think this is somewhat ridiculous.



Pilot: "Request push, which way should we face?" JFK Ground: "You better face the front, sir, or you'll scare the pax!"
User currently offlineRW170 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 430 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6636 times:



Quoting Soxfan (Reply 3):
Let me get this straight: They're going to ban tipping but not increase the wage?

...

Quoting AJMIA (Thread starter):
The company American contracts with to provide curbside check-in, G2 Services, will raise the hourly wages of skycaps to $12 to $15 per hour, which is well above the state's $8-per-hour minimum wage. Most skycaps now earn $5.15 per hour, and say they have traditionally made most of their money through tips.




319/320/321/712/733/734/735/73G/738/752/753/763/CR2/CR9/DH8/135/145/170/175/190/D9S/D94/D95/M82/M83/M88
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19701 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6624 times:

And I liked AA.

Now I can't fly them.

Darnit. That was really rotten of them.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25369 posts, RR: 49
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6536 times:



Quoting 1821 (Reply 2):
Tipping is relied upon heavylly in any insustry especially in the aviation industry.

What are you talking about??
Who in the aviation industry relies heavily on tips? Pilots, gate agents, rampers, caterers. mechanics, dispatchers, fuelers, FAs etc???...

Quoting Soxfan (Reply 3):
I know that airlines are trying to save money any way they can, but I think this is somewhat ridiculous.

Hey the skycaps got what they deserved after their bs lawsuit.

AA smartly decided to change things around and reclassify the employees. Actually I was expecting AA just to eliminate the positions totally.

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 1):
I'm sure that because its now a rule and wages have been raised, skycaps will politely refuse to accept a tip.

Sure why not? If its company policy and I'm sure employees can be disciplined for taking money. Many HR handbooks clearly state employees cannot except tips and must refuse them.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineTsaord From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6518 times:

I read in the paper two weeks ago that AA lost a judgment against the Skycaps. But they would appeal. This is going to cause a new rift with them!

User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1730 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6433 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
Sure why not? If its company policy and I'm sure employees can be disciplined for taking money. Many HR handbooks clearly state employees cannot except tips and must refuse them.

Would you turn down a tip if it was offered to you? If you reply "yes", good on you. However, I can guarantee 99% of people (in the US at least, and wherever else tipping is a custom) would accept it, unless their supervisor was looming over them- regardless of company policy. The problem is enforcement, and unless these employees are being supervised, I doubt AA or the contractor will be able to realistically enforce the directive. A raise to $17 an hour is great, but so is an extra $50-100 in tips...


User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1961 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6392 times:



Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 8):
Would you turn down a tip if it was offered to you? If you reply "yes", good on you. However, I can guarantee 99% of people (in the US at least, and wherever else tipping is a custom) would accept it

I'm doubtful of your estimation. I know many positions (outside of aviation) where you would be terminated for accepting tips against company policy.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21529 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6350 times:

Unintended consequences. Whenever do good politicians pass laws, there are unintended consequences. It'll be interesting to see if the skycaps make more or less than they did before the change in status.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6274 times:



Quoting AJMIA (Thread starter):
The company American contracts with to provide curbside check-in, G2 Services, will raise the hourly wages of skycaps to $12 to $15 per hour, which is well above the state's $8-per-hour minimum wage.

If i am not mistaken, tipping is going to be banned but the wages will increase to 12 -15 dollars an hour, I think that is some pretty decent compensation, considering that most now make 5.15 an hour. This according to the article.

So better we take all factors into consideration when making a judgment.



There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6218 times:

If the skycaps aren't AA employees, why does AA charge for the service? That's my question. I can see G2 charging -- they are the servicing company. But why is AA charging and then pocketing the $$? Aren't they saving money by having someone else do the check in for them?

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7703 posts, RR: 21
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6206 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
Hey the skycaps got what they deserved after their bs lawsuit.

Agree with that, you can't have it both ways. They must have known there'd be consequences.

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 8):
Would you turn down a tip if it was offered to you?

If it was company policy, and I knew there was a very good chance of being fired if I didn't, then most certainly I would turn it down.

Quoting Davescj (Reply 12):
If the skycaps aren't AA employees, why does AA charge for the service?

It's called subcontracting - and there's plenty of it in the aviation industry.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6198 times:



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 13):
It's called subcontracting - and there's plenty of it in the aviation industry.

The sub-contracting part I understand. Regional airlines are sub contractors (basically). But in the case of the skycaps, they aren't AA. Therefore, AA should not be charging for the service, or in the alternative, paying the skycaps for their labor.

Does anyone know the Mass. tip law? What was the basis of the suit under it?

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineSkyguyB727 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6138 times:

I have never understood why someone should be tipped simply for doing the job they were hired to do. Is it the customer's duty to subsidize someone's salary just because the employer chooses to pay a substandard wage? It's embarrassing when I see skycaps stand there with their hand out and tell people to tip them. They remind me of the panhandlers I see downtown.

I had an interesting situation a few years ago as a gate agent. There were two wheelchair requests (husband and wife) on an inbound flight. I pushed one wheelchair, and the skycap pushed the other. When we got to the baggage hall, the person I pushed offered me a tip, and the person the skycap pushed offered him a tip. I was obligated by my company's policy to politely decline the tip even though I was doing something above and beyond the normal duties of my job. The skycap, on the other hand, gleefully accepted the tip even though he was just doing the job he was hired to do. The people were very confused. They couldn't understand why the skycap could accept a tip and I could not.


User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6117 times:



Quoting SkyguyB727 (Reply 15):
I have never understood why someone should be tipped simply for doing the job they were hired to do. Is it the customer's duty to subsidize someone's salary just because the employer chooses to pay a substandard wage?

I would personally prefer a system where salaries didn't require tips. But some industries (such as waiting tables) are exempt from wage requirement, because the presumption is that tips make the difference. With skycaps, I'd like to see them get a wage that is realistic, charging for the service if necessary, and abandon tipping.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineLHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6095 times:



Quoting Davescj (Reply 14):
The sub-contracting part I understand. Regional airlines are sub contractors (basically). But in the case of the skycaps, they aren't AA. Therefore, AA should not be charging for the service, or in the alternative, paying the skycaps for their labor.

Right, but the Skycaps, regardless of who they work for, accept baggage on behalf of American. AA charges a $2.00 fee per bag at most airports that offer Skycaps service, so they charge at BOS. Consistency, I suppose. Either that, or nickel-and-diming the customer.


User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6092 times:



Quoting LHR777 (Reply 17):
Either that, or nickel-and-diming the customer.

Sadly, I think it is the later.



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineUshermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2965 posts, RR: 16
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6058 times:



Quoting AJMIA (Thread starter):
The company American contracts with to provide curbside check-in, G2 Services, will raise the hourly wages of skycaps to $12 to $15 per hour, which is well above the state's $8-per-hour minimum wage.

Pretty sweet for unskilled labor, if you ask me...



Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlineLuv2cattlecall From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6054 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

You know...$54,000/yr. for a job that requires ZERO education and minimal skill (I mean no disrespect to Skycaps...but reality is reality) will not be so bad. Heck, that's more than many pilots make!

This, if anything, could be costing AA more, since it is more money from their pockets.

I, for one, am happy to see this change. I have no problem giving tips at restaurants, but in my experience, Skycaps are the worst at having an attitude if you tip less than $1 a bag (a few times when I'm traveling with others and we only have a $5 in cash in small bills, etc). They, rightfully so at $5.15/hr I suppose, more or less demand a tip. Hopefully this trend picks up and somehow results in counter-service places (Starbucks, Moe's SW Grill, etc) getting rid of those tip jars as well.

Slightly OT, but I'm starting to get aggravated by the skycaps that stand guard by the Smartcarte and grunt when you politely refuse their service and continue to rent a cart.



When you have to breaststroke to your connecting flight...it's a crash!
User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6010 times:

OK, found a bit more on the net.

Apologizes for not being able to find this sooner.

http://www.masslaw.com/opinions0419.cfm Text published on the net below.

Preemption - Tips

Where plaintiffs allege that the defendant airline has violated the Massachusetts Tips Law, a motion by the defendant to dismiss the complaint must be denied on the ground that the plaintiffs' claim is not preempted by federal law.

"Airline passengers generally tip skycaps who help them with their baggage. In 2005, American Airlines instituted a service charge of $2 per bag on bags handled at the curbside. Skycaps collect, but American retains, the resulting revenues. Few passengers have tipped in addition to paying the new fee. The skycaps accuse American of diverting tip revenue to itself in violation of the Massachusetts Tips Law, Mass. Gen. Laws ch. 149, §152A. American's ripost is that the skycaps' claims are preempted by the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978, Pub. L. No. 95-504, 92 Stat. 1705 (codified as amended at 49 U.S.C. §40101 et seq.). ...

"... The Massachusetts Tips Law is, at its core, a wage law. The statute provides generally that tips belong to employees.... Tips are, after all, meant only for employees and not the employer. If consumers knew that tips were for employers, then presumably consumers would not give tips in the first instance. In this way, a law that states that voluntary tips are for employees has only a very attenuated relationship, if at all, to airline prices, routes, or services. Accordingly, this Court holds that the Airline Deregulation Act does not expressly preempt the skycaps' claim under the Massachusetts Tips Law. Since the common law claims are based on the same theory that American expropriated tips, this Court also holds that those claims are not expressly preempted. ...

"... Federal law does not so thoroughly occupy the field of airline employment 'as to make reasonable the inference that Congress left no room for the states to supplement [federal law].' ..."

DiFiore, et al. v. American Airlines, Inc. (Lawyers Weekly No. 02-091-07) (13 pages) (Young, J.) (USDC) (Civil Action No. 07-10070-WGY) (April 12, 2007).

To order the full text of this opinion, please call 800-933-5594.

It will be interesting to see where this finally goes.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4116 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6002 times:

Didn't someone at AA look at this plan and say, "You know, the PR backlash here might not be worth it."

Or maybe AA has no one who thinks along those lines?


User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5467 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5995 times:



Quoting Luv2cattlecall (Reply 20):
You know...$54,000/yr. for a job that requires ZERO education and minimal skill (I mean no disrespect to Skycaps...but reality is reality) will not be so bad. Heck, that's more than many pilots make!

Where are you getting $54,000? $12 to $15 an hour, assuming 40 hours a week, is roughly $25,000-$31,000.


User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1730 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5941 times:



Quoting SeaBosDca (Reply 23):

Where are you getting $54,000? $12 to $15 an hour, assuming 40 hours a week, is roughly $25,000-$31,000.

Which is why I said...

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 8):
A raise to $17 an hour is great, but so is an extra $50-100 in tips...



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 13):
If it was company policy, and I knew there was a very good chance of being fired if I didn't, then most certainly I would turn it down.



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 9):
I'm doubtful of your estimation. I know many positions (outside of aviation) where you would be terminated for accepting tips against company policy.

I'll ask it again... how do you enforce this? With a supervisor watching over every interaction between skycap and customer? Technically, flight attendants could be terminated for giving away buy-on-board meals to off duty crew members traveling in Y, and yet they still do it.... There are so many rules and regulations stipulating termination of employment and yet very few are enforced. I still don't see how you can enforce this and how accepting tips leads to termination will prevent staff from accepting tips. As long as they're careful, you can be assured that they will still do it.


25 ImperialEagle : Imagine some kind of "retalitory" act being used by a business in America to threaten employees! If I need some kind of service above and beyond the c
26 DocLightning : Look, before, a skycap would load...what, 30 bags an hour? At, say, $1.50 per bag, he could make $45 an hour doing it. And now... $12-18/hour? And all
27 QQflyboy : The bigger reason behind the tip ban is to ensure AA doesn't have to worry about Mass. tip laws. The tip laws are changing, again, and any violation w
28 1821 : LAXintl i was actually referring to Kurbside assistance , trolley handlers and some interpreters. Over here in SYD were i am living we have these type
29 Airbazar : If it is against the rules and wold get me fired, absolutely. Me neither. Not my problem.
30 EXAAUADL : Now the skycaps will have t oreport 100% of their income as taxable, rather than fudge their earnings like you can do when tips are a large portion of
31 AJMIA : This would be the smartest idea of all. Provide a living wage with some benefits and do away with tipping. I discussed the situation yesterday with s
32 EXAAUADL : I disagree. Having lived in both Australia where minimum wage is $10+ but there is no tipping and US/Canada where minimum wage is lower for restuaran
33 Davescj : What exactly am I paying AA 2 bucks for if I check curbside? I can seeing (barely) paying skycap. But what on earth does AA (or other carrier) need th
34 AJMIA : Although you make some valid points... pull up to the curb in an old pickup truck full of kids and bags or with a wheelchair that needs a push inside
35 EXAAUADL : the exception to the rule......
36 Cubsrule : No more callers, we have a winner. It seems like a perfectly logical move on AA's part. If you don't like it, whine about the Massachusetts legislatu
37 DocLightning : I just sent AA an E-mail informing them that they will not have my business until they fix this policy. Perhaps enough such communications will ensure
38 Cubsrule : You must be one of those people who never, ever buys a discounted fare. A full-Y guy all the way, then?
39 LAXintl : Every job in the world has a market price. Whether its a janitor, police office, doctor or CEO. What do you expect AA, or society to pay a skycap? $5
40 Splitz : Skycaps Making $15/hour? Damn, I'm getting screwed! I'm a Shop Supervisor in a $30million+/year in sales/repairs Part 145 Repair Station and I'm only
41 Incitatus : You attitude is comical. Somebody making $45 an hour just can't be classified as "the little guy".
42 DocLightning : Non-sequiturs make me eat lampshades. (filler....filler...filler...filler)
43 Stratosphere : I think this might be a win win situation for the skycaps...I for sure if I was checking in my bag at the curb would not take a chance..I would ensure
44 Cubsrule : I'm genuinely curious. It's almost impossible to avoid those who employ low-wage workers (especially if you fly...). Do you actually do it?
45 SFOQQAA : How long before the other airlines do the same thing at Boston? AA is not the only one charging $2 for curbside check-in. If they are trying to avoid
46 Flighty : Sky craps are criminals. There is a whole criminal underground structure that supports them. The money becomes dirty and flows all over the airport. I
47 Lightsaber : AA almost tripled their hourly pay. Instead of being like a waitress with most of the take home the tips, they are a reclassified positions that works
48 UA772IAD : I believe that depends on the industry. As for the airlines, I completely agree with you. However there are certain industries (hotels, restaurants)
49 Luv2cattlecall : No disrespect to Skycaps...but since when were they professionals?
50 Bobnwa : Would you please elaborate on what other group in the airlines industry gets tips? Did you not read the part about AA raising their pay to $12 to $15
51 DocLightning : Yes, but if they were getting tipped $40 an hour (which is probably what they were making) then this is a huge paycut. Especially since those tips we
52 SHUPirate1 : Don't forget the fact that when Wal-Mart was taken to binding arbitration by one of the stores' unions in Canada, Wal-Mart closed the store in retrib
53 Cubsrule : IIRC Wal-Mart won but decided that she did not need to pay.
54 Bobnwa : I don't remember asking a question of you. Did I ?
55 Lightsaber : I didn't type well. I was answering another question. AA is raising their wages. Personally, I'd just like to see more self service check in as the o
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