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Worlds Best Performing Route?  
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17147 posts, RR: 10
Posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12621 times:

Just wonder if anyone here knows which route in the world that performs best. Can one really answer that question??


Work Hard, Fly Right
79 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGeorgebush From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 679 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12622 times:

SYD-LAX

for a starting guess



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User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12615 times:

Performong how??? LF, Yield. Profit Margin? I dont think anyone knows which routes id the best performer margin wise

User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17147 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12609 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 2):
Performong how???

In term of earning money. BTW what is LF???



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User currently offlineGeorgebush From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 679 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12611 times:



Quoting B747forever (Reply 3):
BTW what is LF???

LF stands for Load Factor, the amount of butts in the seats.



Al Gore invented global warming.
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17147 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12596 times:



Quoting Georgebush (Reply 4):
LF stands for Load Factor, the amount of butts in the seats.

Okay, thank you.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 1):
SYD-LAX

Why that route??



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1296 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12562 times:



Quoting B747forever (Reply 5):
Why that route??

Creates 13% of UA's revenue.

But still it is not the route with the most $$$

By far LHR-JFK-LHR



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User currently offlineSandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 1133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12556 times:
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Locally to me at least I reckon it's London (all airports) - Edinburgh. Aircraft always full and over 50 return flights a day according to BAA.

Sandyb123



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User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17147 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12523 times:



Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 6):
Creates 13% of UA's revenue.

Jeez, didnt know that.

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 6):
By far LHR-JFK-LHR

Thought also about that. There are so many flights to NYC from LON.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4659 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12524 times:



Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 6):
Creates 13% of UA's revenue.

... and a similar amount at QF - between 10 and 15%.

Quoting Sandyb123 (Reply 7):
Locally to me at least I reckon it's London (all airports) - Edinburgh. Aircraft always full and over 50 return flights a day according to BAA.

Yeah, but is it high yield traffic?

I'd vote for all London airports to all New York City airports.



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12499 times:

See in many countries load factor might be publically available as is revenue data. At least in the USA, you have to pay for it though. Costs can be estimated from Form 41. Thus is it posssbile to come up with a proxy PROFIT MARGIN per route for any US carrier. For foreign carriers this is probably impossible as this data is as extensive as it is for US carriers.

So it is probably impossible to know which route make 1) the most money and 2) has the highest profit margin

The highest profit margin routes is probably something short and in the middle east or east asia.

I would bet the answer to both most profitable and highest margin is something Emirates or Ethiad flies.


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12467 times:



Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 6):
Creates 13% of UA's revenue.

But still it is not the route with the most $$$

By far LHR-JFK-LHR

I dont believe that one daily LAX-SYD and an occasional seasonal second roundtrip create over ONE BILLION in revenue annually for UAL.


as for JFK-LHR, it isnt. It is infact it is AA's poorest performing LON market. ORD-LHR and DFW-LGW/LHR are the best.


User currently offlineGeorgebush From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 679 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12464 times:



Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 9):
Yeah, but is it high yield traffic?

I was thinking the same thing. As the OP stated the 'best preforming' route would have less competition and higher yeild factors.

What about HND-KIX-ITM?? And all the other japaneese domestic 747's that fly several times a day with 100% load factors.



Al Gore invented global warming.
User currently offlineGeorgebush From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 679 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12452 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 11):

I dont believe that one daily LAX-SYD and an occasional seasonal second roundtrip create over ONE BILLION in revenue annually for UAL.

Don't they usually fly 2 now?? Have you seen the price of a C class ticket on UA from LAX to SYD??



Al Gore invented global warming.
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 12335 times:



Quoting Georgebush (Reply 13):
Don't they usually fly 2 now?? Have you seen the price of a C class ticket on UA from LAX to SYD??

There is no way UA grosses over $1B in revenue annually on this route.


LAX-SYD

So well say 730 trips annually plus 180 more for 3 months of a second daily flight = 910 annual rounrtrips.

This means each segment grosses over $1m per trip, divided by an average of 300 passengers comes out to $3333, ONEWAY FARE average....Impossible. And that is still nearly $100m short of ONE BILLION.


User currently offlineGeorgebush From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 679 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 12303 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 14):
So well say 730 trips annually plus 180 more for 3 months of a second daily flight = 910 annual rounrtrips.

This means each segment grosses over $1m per trip, divided by an average of 300 passengers comes out to $3333, ONEWAY FARE average....Impossible. And that is still nearly $100m short of ONE BILLION.

Dont forget the most important into all your calculations, cargo. They will bump revenue pax on this leg ALL the time because the goods underneath are paying more. Also note I did not make the comment about revenue, it was only stated that the SYD route is 13% of UA's annual revenue. I am no expert in the science of accounting but I believe cash inflow (ticket sales) is a lot differnt to total revenue.



Al Gore invented global warming.
User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 12277 times:

My money is on Sydney-Los Angeles too, but for UA and QF it generates 15% of their profit, not revenue.

Fares are slightly higher than on SYD-LHR, but the flight is 30% shorter and non-stop, so only one crew is needed compared with two to London. Yields, therefore, are at least 35% higher than on the Kangaroo Route to London.

And look how hard the two airlines have lobbied to keep SQ and AC off the route - that shows how much they value it.


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 12217 times:



Quoting Georgebush (Reply 15):
Dont forget the most important into all your calculations, cargo

so youre accepting my assertion that fares have to be $3333? If not, no amount of cargo can get you to $1m per flight each and every day..It would require an additional $100,000 per flight of cargo plus every passener paying $3333 one way.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 16):
My money is on Sydney-Los Angeles too, but for UA and QF it generates 15% of their profit, not revenue.

It is more belivable for QF than for UA given the QF frequency in LAX and overall smaller size of QF versus UA.


User currently offlineRam025 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 12150 times:

Would'nt an intra japanese flight have higher loads, like Tokyo to Osaka. Trust me thoses 777 are always full with business men in the morning.


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User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13534 posts, RR: 100
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 11961 times:
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Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 6):

Creates 13% of UA's revenue.

But still it is not the route with the most $$$

By far LHR-JFK-LHR

I doubt the 13% for UA, but I would guess that SYD-LAX is a gold mine. With only two airlines in friendly competition and a large amount of premium passangers... it should be a money maker.

Overall, LHR-JFK should have the most money, but due to the variety of service and available substitutions, I doubt the yield is in the same range.

Normally, emerging markets pay the best yield. I would think routes to/from China or India would be incredibly profitable. I know my friends traveling the West Coast US to India have a tough time getting J class seats. So the new BLR-SFO route by IT should be well received!  hyper 

Lightsaber



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User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 11914 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 17):
so youre accepting my assertion that fares have to be $3333?

Try more than that. I just punched in LAX-SYD in Biz-Class for a random week in July: $19,188 round trip. So $9600 each way.
First class round trip is $24,150 so $12,75 each way per ticket.
The cheapest economy seat (non-refundable) was still $2700 round trip, or $1350 each way. So maybe it's not that unreasonable after all.


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 11755 times:



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 20):
Try more than that. I just punched in LAX-SYD in Biz-Class for a random week in July: $19,188 round trip. So $9600 each way.
First class round trip is $24,150 so $12,75 each way per ticket.
The cheapest economy seat (non-refundable) was still $2700 round trip, or $1350 each way. So maybe it's not that unreasonable after all.

I can tell you the avergage segment fare for LAX-SYD is NOT $3333, this would be close to 45 cents per mile yield...NO WAY. You need to check harder if all you can find is a Y RT for $2700.


User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 11673 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 21):
I can tell you the avergage segment fare for LAX-SYD is NOT $3333, this would be close to 45 cents per mile yield...NO WAY. You need to check harder if all you can find is a Y RT for $2700.

I'm telling what UA said when I punched in the dates, and I used the same flights and dates for Y, J, and F class. Sure if you play with dates you can find cheaper fares FOR YOURSELF if your dates and plans are flexible, but that doesn't mean every person on the plane is paying the same cheap fare. If you want to do your own research and rebute, more power to you.

However, "average fare" means that there are some fares $3333 while there are some fares above $3333.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 21):
You need to check harder if all you can find is a Y RT for $2700

Full Y on the same dates is $8900 round trip, or $4450 each way, so even some of the Y-fares are more than the $3333 each way you state.

I don't think the route is 10-15% of UA's revenue but to hear it is 10-15% of UA's route profits would not surprise me at all.


User currently offlineJetSetter629 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 461 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 11136 times:



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 19):
Overall, LHR-JFK should have the most money, but due to the variety of service and available substitutions, I doubt the yield is in the same range.

Its simple...more seats available/more competition on a route means the prices will be reduced to attract customers.

With only a few hundred seats a day between LAX and SYD, fares are more at a premium. A C fare is around $12,000 and F is $16,000...will never find that on a JFK/LON route.


User currently offlineDC8FanJet From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 10789 times:



Quoting Georgebush (Reply 15):
Dont forget the most important into all your calculations, cargo. They will bump revenue pax on this leg ALL the time because the goods underneath are paying more. Also note I did not make the comment about revenue, it was only

Uh, No. Passengers and bags go before cargo..If revenue passengers are bumped it is to carry required fuel.

Also, don't forget ORD-HKG.


25 JetJeanes : actually more revenue is generated between atl and mco daily than anywhere else. Im going to assume that disnyworld has something to do with it
26 FlyDeltaJets87 : It must be in excess baggage fees because I doubt it's in the airfares.
27 Phishphan70 : Where's SFO-HKG come in? i thought that was the biggest money maker for SQ or something like that. we're ready for our A380 soon hopefully!!!
28 JFK69 : I am going to throw out JFK-TLV. I know CO they would love to throw 10 more flights on that route....
29 Lono : I would say AS JNU-ANC and JNU-SEA.... full flights every day... monopoly for a city with no roads in or out...
30 Aruba : What about JNB-CPT-JNB? Quite a few flight I suppose? Will O.
31 VHVXB : QFs SYD-JNB service is by far its most profitable service Wheres your proof that QF persauded the government not allow AC service the LAX-SYD route?
32 Qantas744ER : I stand corrected! Profit is what i meant. UA has a revenue of $3.3 Billion a year on the Pacific network and LAX-SYD creates 13% of its profits. AFA
33 A380US : Not like that really means any thing
34 PDXBJV : My vote would go for LON-NYC all routes, has to make a killing no matter what. That said, I think that there are more international flights to LON tha
35 Flylku : I don't know about the 15% of Revenue figure for UA but I have been told that there are some routes that can make money on the freight alone. Also, i
36 EVILTHETURTLE : LAX-MEX-LAX does pretty damn well for UA and MX.
37 A380US : I know it definatley makes tons of money (NYC-TLV) with now 4 carriers non-stop and even the europeans love it because they too get alot off of it. B
38 Speedbird0125 : Probably JFK-LHR, LAX-NRT, NRT-ICN??
39 KennyK : I'm not sure about best performing but I've been on one of the worst, It was me and the pilot on the second to last ever Loganair Islander flight from
40 Spacecadet : Tokyo-Osaka is definitely up there in terms of loads, but Tokyo-Sapporo is busier. I believe it's the busiest city pair in the world. I haven't check
41 Georgebush : Do you work in load control for an airline?? I assume not, or else you would know that the flight leaves with the highest bidder, and in most cases c
42 Airbuster : anyone got numbers of routes like BCN-MAD and AMS-LON? And we are talking routes right? so why not combine the figures of all the airlines flying a sp
43 B747forever : True, I dont mean a specific carrier. As you say it would be best to combine the figures on all the airlines that flies a specific route.
44 Dangould2000 : my money is on either LON-DUB or LON-PAR very highly profitable markets, and before the days of low cost airlines, Aerlingus, Air France and BOAC/BA o
45 NQYGuy : I thought you'd left the forums. Oh wait, I'm giving you an excuse to make another post in this topic again. Money: London to East Coast USA? Bums on
46 LHR777 : I'll take a wild bet on LHR-LOS on BA.
47 DC8Fanjet : Don't know what airline your work with, but I've been in the business nearly 40 years, I do load control, and our "order of accom." takes psgrs/bags
48 Gokmengs : I think the OP means one route for a certain airline that creates largest dollar amount of profits. So in that sense I'm gonna guess a BA flight from
49 VV701 : LON-AMS-LON (2007) 3,311,056 bums on 3,311,056 seats LON-PAR-LON (2007) 2,235,853 bums on 2,235,853 seats LON-EDI-LON (2007) 3,096,472 bums on 3,096,
50 Justloveplanes : EK's new Dubai-Houston Flight seems to filling up it's 77L and apparently both cabin and cargo is pretty full. Probably lots of premium passengers fr
51 VV701 : As an aside compare with total population of Republic of Ireland (2006 census) of 4,239,848. (But remember the 'bums on seats' figure is for passenge
52 LHR777 : I totally agree. At BA, our order of accomodate was Pax, Bags, Express Cargo, Courier, Mail, Cargo. Cargo never bumps pax. I'd take cargo off to acco
53 Amirs : i also think NYC - TLV is one of the strongest CO has 2 daily flight, reported to be adding a 3 next year.777 LY has 4 daily flight and upto 6/7 in th
54 JFK787NYC : The route is very profitable and the more carriers come on board the more money is made. I hate EL AL, I just dont fly them. But, they are flying 4 f
55 VV701 : The BA cost equates to that of DL and CO. To fly BA174 d. 1930 hrs local from JFK on 26 May and BA165 a. TLV on 27 May at 1535 hrs local is priced at
56 Viscount724 : Don't know where you got that data but I would be quite certain that those routes did not all have a 100% load factor on every flight for the entire
57 VV701 : Please read the last line of my original post. CAA is, of course, the British Civil Aviation Authority, a government body responsible for controlling
58 Viscount724 : Thanks. Looks like some faulty CAA data then if they're showing those routes with 100% load factors.
59 Swatpamike : Hello All No, LHR777 its business. At WN it's AOG Aircraft Parts NFG Cargo Next Flight Guaranteed Bags Rush Cargo Company Material Regular Freight And
60 VV701 : Ah! Now I see where my communications are failing. Yes. I am quite sure that there were many more (empty) seats without bums on them. But because the
61 2travel2know : There are several routes in The Caribbean that might be worth mention those are routes to PAP, HAV, CCS and MAR.
62 LHR777 : No, it's still poor service to the fare-paying customer, without whom we'd be just cargo airlines, or not in business at all. Still, it's interesting
63 Anetter123 : I'd have to say EZE is up there as well. Not the top, but certainly up there with the top few best performing routes, especially MIA-EZE flights.
64 Post contains images WunalaYann : I remember reading that MAD-BCN and SYD-MEL were some of the best performing routes (load factors and yields) in the world... Mostly due to very limit
65 Caymanair : O my.....I had an amazing laugh hearing that one. Routes to the Caribbean couldn't win out in any of the categories mentioned. Relative to routes to,
66 2travel2know : In the Caribbean, Check CM fares, availability yields and loads to/fr PAP, HAV, MAR and CCS and then laugh. What criteria are we using here? by % or
67 Post contains links ClassicLover : In Australia, for the 12 months ended June 2006 - Flights between Sydney and Melbourne - 6,237,000 passengers. Flights between Sydney and Brisbane - 3
68 KLMCedric : I'd say that one of the routes with the highest profit margin's is the handful of eurocarriers that are allowed to fly to Luanda a few times a week. T
69 MEA-707 : Indeed we must first decide what exactly we are looking at. There are many short international flights with monopoly or national airlines which cost a
70 Yellowtail : IAH-DXB is definitely up there...lots of very HIGH yield F&J..lots of high yield Y, as much cargo as they can carry. CO only wish they had the eqp to
71 Jbernie : I had heard/read sometime ago that SYD-MEL was one of the busiest routes. And surely with Ansett's demine and the rise of Virgin & Jet* and cheaper f
72 OzGlobal : My recollection is that in 2007, SYD-MEL was the third business city pair in the world, behind only two Japanese domestic city pairs. As for Paris -
73 N770WD : The key metrics for profitability on a given international route are: - Amount of premium passengers and business/leisure mix (more business is bette
74 Zkpilot : I'd say more like 13% of profit. It probably only accounts for less than 5% of revenue.
75 FlyDeltaJets : The best money making flights are anything US-Asia That's because the flight is full of people and cargo. DL made over a million US dollars in the fir
76 Coolfish1103 : For international flights, I think it could be TPE-HKG. I had to say "international" as there are monopolies between domestic flights such as HND-CTS.
77 Kl591 : My guess would be anywhere in Europe to Nigeria, ( AMS-LOS, AMS-ABV, CDG-LOS, LHR-LOS, LHR-ABV, LGW-LOS)Flights always full and oversold and tickets c
78 JFK787NYC : Security costs are very high in Nigeria. I would not be surprised if security costs in Nigerian airports are more expensive then in Israel.
79 Mats : My understanding is that African routes are the highest yield. Air France's services from CDG to Africa rely on oil business (Petroleum Club), last-mi
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