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Is Iberia Starting DFW?  
User currently offlineCopa737DFW From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 80 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5347 times:

I just saw on wikipedia that they are starting service to DFW in 2009.

Is this true?!?!  Confused  Confused


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62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineShamrock321 From Ireland, joined May 2008, 1598 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5251 times:

Alot of things you read on Wikepedia should be taken with a pinch of salt!
It was discussed only here last week, the pros and cons of IB serving DFW with alot of people saying that IB were quite happy to feed traffic via ORD.

As far as Im aware there are not definite plans to serve DFW yet, I think IB are still concentrating on building their name in IAD and BOS their 2 newest North American routes.


User currently offlineUPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5170 times:



Quoting Copa737DFW (Thread starter):
I just saw on wikipedia that they are starting service to DFW in 2009.

Is this true?!?!

Next IB station in the US, not sure about timing, current lack of long haul a/c might delay it, AA metal might be an option after ATI



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User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5140 times:



Quoting Shamrock321 (Reply 1):
As far as Im aware there are not definite plans to serve DFW yet, I think IB are still concentrating on building their name in IAD and BOS their 2 newest North American routes.

And these are key, since they are the two of the largest TATL markets in America. DFW has AA connections, but only to so many places since Mexico is covered by Mexicana. If they can't make BOS or IAD work, I doubt they can make anywhere else work.



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User currently offlineAlbird87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5124 times:



Quoting Shamrock321 (Reply 1):
alot of people saying that IB were quite happy to feed traffic via ORD

I would of thought that MIA would of been more of feeder traffic on to DFW for IB. They have 2 flights in a day to MIA and plenty of AA flights then up to DFW.

I may be well off the mark here, but didnt AA use to fly into MAD from DFW? I am probably making this up but i feel that they may have done this before a while back?

With IB and AA trying to get ATI i can see that this route probably wont start up. Same with CX and QF probably from the Asia side into DFW (AA connecting into DFW from LAX)


User currently offlineUPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4897 times:



Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 3):
And these are key, since they are the two of the largest TATL markets in America

IAD & BOS are O&D stations for IB, so harder to establish than DFW.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 3):
DFW has AA connections, but only to so many places since Mexico is covered by Mexicana.

Keep in mind that there are several cities in Mexico (North and West) for which DFW might be more convenient than MEX to connect out of MAD (MTYis an example).

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 4):
I may be well off the mark here, but didnt AA use to fly into MAD from DFW? I am probably making this up but i feel that they may have done this before a while back?

Lasted very short,dropped after 9/11, lot of things have changed since..........



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User currently offlineQantasHeavy From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 379 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4894 times:

DFW can work well for any OneWorld carrier if AA wants to play nice on their home turf. Of course, you would not think BA and AA were even in the same alliance at any of their hubs (if you were local O&D).

I think AA could make CX, IB and QF work at DFW.

Having some other OW metal at DFW would also alleviate some of AA's longhaul fleet shortage (relative to their expansion plans).

Would be great to get JL back or CX in but that is unlikely I'm afraid. QF seems to be a sure thing one day... but that keeps seeming just over the horizon -- where it has been since 2000!


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7599 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4772 times:

Its a possibility. Given that the economy in Europe is stronger, the European carriers are probably having an eaiser time here. DFW-MAD is a route that will be flown eventually, but I dont know when or who.


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User currently offlineUPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4711 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 7):
Its a possibility. Given that the economy in Europe is stronger, the European carriers are probably having an eaiser time here. DFW-MAD is a route that will be flown eventually, but I dont know when or who.

Will be interesting to see if CO opens IAH-MAD upon joining OW (if it actually happens), IMO MAD can't sustain 2 non-stops to Texas



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User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7599 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4626 times:



Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 8):
Will be interesting to see if CO opens IAH-MAD upon joining OW (if it actually happens), IMO MAD can't sustain 2 non-stops to Texas

Its 6 one way half a dozen the other. Either airport could serve the purpose. It depends on to what degree CO gets in. Whether they just have a codesharing relationship with AA and BA or if they join OW. I agree that Texas cant support 2 nonstops to MAD. My money would be on DFW since the hub itself is much bigger. Local traffic is minimal from both cities.



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User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32776 posts, RR: 72
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4611 times:



Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 5):
Lasted very short,dropped after 9/11, lot of things have changed since..........

9/11 as in 9/11/91.

The route was dropped in 1991, not 2001.



a.
User currently offlineJCS17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 38
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4575 times:

I read in an aviation management textbook that AA's average load factors when they served DFW-MAD was 90%+, however the very low yields made the route unsustainable.


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User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4438 times:

Yeah, CO already flies EWR-MAD, and while DFW and IAH are far apart they don't differ much in the way of connections. They both would serve Northern Mexico and the Southwestern USA. I wonder how much O&D cities like PHX, LAS, and MTY have for MAD to make connecting through DFW vs. ORD reasonable.


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User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4379 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
The route was dropped in 1991, not 2001.

No, I remember the MAD flight in the late 1990's. It was definitely NOT dropped in 1991. Or, if it was, it was reinstated sometime in the mid-late 90's.

UAL


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32776 posts, RR: 72
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4375 times:



Quoting UAL747 (Reply 13):

No, I remember the MAD flight in the late 1990's. It was definitely NOT dropped in 1991. Or, if it was, it was reinstated sometime in the mid-late 90's.

No, it was never re-instated.

I was wrong with 1991, though, it was dropped in 1993:

August 4, 1993; New York Times
American Airlines plans to suspend service on three routes between the United States and Europe this autumn, predicting even worse performance from the weak routes once summer ends.

The carrier will discontinue service on Nov. 1 between Dallas-Fort Worth and Madrid, a route that has operated since May 1988. Nonstop service between Dallas and Brussels, which started in April, and the year-old nonstop flight between Chicago and Berlin will be suspended on Oct. 1.

"These routes weren't contributing to the company as strongly as they could have," an American Airlines spokesman, Al Becker, said on Monday. "This is consistent with our transition plan to downsize the airline and use our resources more productively."

The flights may resume in the spring, when trans-Atlantic traffic picks up. Meanwhile, American Airlines will serve all three European destinations from other United States cities.

The airline reported a $36 million operating loss on its trans-Atlantic routes for the first quarter of 1993, said Samuel C. Buttrick, an airline analyst with Kidder, Peabody & Company. Delta Air Lines, the No. 1 American carrier to Europe, lost $181 million.

In June, American Airlines said that its traffic to Europe had been particularly weak.



a.
User currently offlineAnetter123 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4330 times:

IB will fly to LAX before they fly to DFW

AA will fly DFW-MAD if the route were to ever get reinstated, not IB.


User currently offlineToxtethogrady From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4298 times:



Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 6):
DFW can work well for any OneWorld carrier if AA wants to play nice on their home turf.

Sounds like CO and Houston.

But DFW's problem is that their international numbers have been flat, which does not favor new service.

Sabena was a OneWorld partner, but they couldn't make service to DFW work.

If the KLM service turns out to be a winner, Iberia may be more likely to jump in...


User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3953 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4282 times:



Quoting Toxtethogrady (Reply 16):
Sounds like CO and Houston.

You know, save for Latin America, which CO dominates from IAH, CO is not near as protective of IAH as AA is with DFW, at least that is how it appears to me. That said, CO could not really offer anything in the way of competition to EK, SQ and QR (in Nov) due to a lack of equipment. Still I believe that CO is and will always be far more protective of EWR than IAH when it comes to int'l service.

Thomas



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User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7599 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4207 times:



Quoting Toxtethogrady (Reply 16):
But DFW's problem is that their international numbers have been flat

Not true. AA's international network out of DFW is profitable and doing very well. Per flight its comparable to IAH, however IAH has more International flights so IAH's international network as a whole is more profitable.



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User currently offlineBartond From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 790 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4168 times:



Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 17):
CO is not near as protective of IAH as AA is with DFW, at least that is how it appears to me

Yeah it would seem that way. Why else wouldn't CO start up a flight to FRA? Meanwhile, it's nice for you spotters as LH has free reign and has upped service with their metal with no CO to fight against.


User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3953 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4081 times:



Quoting Bartond (Reply 19):
Meanwhile, it's nice for you spotters as LH has free reign and has upped service with their metal with no CO to fight against.

Yep, had CO started a FRA service as rumors suggested (going back to the DC-10 days), I suspect that LH's IAH service would have remained an A343.

Thomas



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11600 posts, RR: 61
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4075 times:



Quoting UAL747 (Reply 13):
No, I remember the MAD flight in the late 1990's. It was definitely NOT dropped in 1991. Or, if it was, it was reinstated sometime in the mid-late 90's.

MAH4546 is correct. DFW has not had a nonstop flight to MAD since 1993. After the route was discontinued it was never relaunched again.


User currently offlineUPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3926 times:



Quoting Anetter123 (Reply 15):
IB will fly to LAX before they fly to DFW

Do you think so?

LAX-Europe is overcrowded, J/Y fares have been going down over the last 2 years specially in the low season.

LAX-MAD would be mostly O&D at both ends.



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User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3892 times:

I discussed this topic a few weeks ago with several people, I think on the March 30th DFW-LHR/AMS thread but got blasted because I suggested that IB could take advantage of AA's Mexico and Latin America connections from DFW. But, I did see the reason. IB flies to most major Latin America destinations, more than any other European carrier I believe. However, I wonder if the Mexican market, especially the 2nd and 3rd tier cities that AA flys to would be enough to sustain and A340-300 on the route? (As well as the South Central and South Western US).

Just out of curiosity, I wonder what the No. 1 Major European destination is from Mexico? I tend to think Madrid, as it's like The US to London = Mexico to Madrid. (God, that sounded like an answer to an SAT question).

As far as AA being protective, they are predators when it comes to defending the Dallas area, even taking on WN and LLC's. They've killed a few airlines in the Dallas area in their days. However, I would really love to be at a board meeting when AA is talking to DFWAirport about international flights in and out of DFW. That would be an interesting fight to watch.

But, sadly, I agree. It's more likely that AA would start up DFW-MAD in their own 767-300's again than IB flying to DFW, but I hope I'm wrong. That international terminal is way too cool to not have tons of colors parked at its gates.

UAL


User currently offlineGsosbee From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3865 times:



Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 6):
DFW can work well for any OneWorld carrier if AA wants to play nice on their home turf. Of course, you would not think BA and AA were even in the same alliance at any of their hubs (if you were local O&D).

I think AA could make CX, IB and QF work at DFW.

Having some other OW metal at DFW would also alleviate some of AA's longhaul fleet shortage (relative to their expansion plans).

Would be great to get JL back or CX in but that is unlikely I'm afraid. QF seems to be a sure thing one day... but that keeps seeming just over the horizon -- where it has been since 2000!

The issue is AA is DFW's own worse enemy. The airport has let AA have everything they want so we are now saddled with a hub so strong that everyone, including AA's alliance partners, want nothing to do with DFW.


25 MAH4546 : Flight won't work on O&D outside of July.
26 Anetter123 : Anything is possible. I'd start service to LAX before DFW if I were IB. They already serve ORD (already an AA hub) and the O & D is certainly there f
27 UAL747 : IF only AA would codeshare with BA on their LHR flights, I think you'd see a big change with BA, probably multiple 777's a day, or perhaps 1 or 2 744
28 UPPERDECKFAN : My company flies MAD-LAX I'd say 20-30 times a year (mostly BA through LHR) but sometimes AF or KL, and I can tell you that J/Y fares have been going
29 Gsosbee : DOJ prohibition against this.
30 MAH4546 : It's attracting Europeans to NYC, Boston, and Florida.
31 BOStonsox : Why here, versus other places in the US? I guess there is a bit of an upside to having a weak dollar: boost to tourism in BOS. Anyone know what the O
32 UPPERDECKFAN : Don't you think is because east coast is closer to Europe than the rest of the US?
33 B752OS : Shopping, lots of things to see in Boston and the area. A ton of people from England, Ireland and Scotland coming to visit friends and family. Colleg
34 MAH4546 : Shopping and proximity. Shopping in Boston is no NYC, LA, or Miami, but it's very good nonetheless, and very close. NYC, Boston, and Miami have seen
35 Anetter123 : [quote=UPPERDECKFAN,reply=28]My company flies MAD-LAX I'd say 20-30 times a year (mostly BA through LHR) but sometimes AF or KL, and I can tell you th
36 BOStonsox : I figured proximity had something to do with why BOS and JFK are popular, but Florida is just as far as, say, ORD. Well, it's good to hear that, since
37 MAH4546 : Miami has better shopping than Boston, and many European and Latin fashionhouses have been taking advantage of Miami's cheaper rent and consumer fash
38 Post contains links B752OS : http://www.roadandtravel.com/traveladvice/2006/bestshoppingcities.htm Forget shopping. Miami is most attractive thanks to the huge foreclosure market
39 Post contains links MAH4546 : Not really. As nice as the bargains are, most Europeans aren't flocking to Miami to buy condos. The super-wealthy ones are, for sure. Heavy exaggerat
40 Post contains links 102IAHexpress : Miami's economy is hurting right now, but it will improve. It may take a few years but it will get better. In the mean time, It looks like even the ba
41 MAH4546 : Not may...it will happen, regardless of mergers. Dallas and Madrid, two of the largest oneWorld hubs, will be connected in due time. My guess is 18-2
42 UPPERDECKFAN : When taking about spanish tourism to US, one element that favours Florida is that spanish is spoken everywhere (as well as in NYC) and that is a big
43 B752OS : See the funny thing is, your had to go around do research on a select few of Boston's project that are not doing so well. In Miami's case, all one ha
44 102IAHexpress : If CO joins oneWorld, DFW-MAD probably will not happen. CO has already stated that they plan to start IAH-MAD, and if they join oneWorld, that will n
45 B752OS : That makes sense if CO does join OW. Would IAH-MAD be 787 route?
46 LAXdude1023 : Out of curiosity, what makes you think IAH-MAD would fare better than DFW-MAD? Last time you said it was because of business ties because the Spanish
47 MAH4546 : I never denied the problem, you just seem to deny it's a nationwide problem. Of course Miami is the one featured on news stories and the like. Miami
48 Post contains links 102IAHexpress : Well, he's right. It's not a nationwide problem. Things are fine down here in Texas. In fact, from today's Chronicle. New Houston home sales outpacin
49 Post contains links MAH4546 : Boston does cater to top tier students, but it caters to plenty of non-top tier students as well. There's most likely more students at the dozens of
50 102IAHexpress : Dude you don't get it. It's not a nationwide problem, it's only a problem where home prices were overpriced to begin with; Florida, California, Arizo
51 B752OS : Or you are just not looking at the simple facts. What I said is a valid point. Miami and South Florida is one of the hardest hit areas and a lot of t
52 MAH4546 : Michigan is seeing benefits to off-set their losses, because car companies are consolidating manufacturing in Michigan. They are "benefiting" as in "
53 B752OS : It sure could be (worse that is), this is price an area pays when their entire economy is pretty much based on one industry. Michigan is part of the
54 Post contains links Tismfu : Curious why you think the glut of condos and over-speculation 'in the end will benefit Miami'. Many economists seem to think that this overzealous bu
55 Commavia : Well, not to get too far off topic here (too late), but in the long-run, market bubbles bursting ultimately can have very positive effects because th
56 MAH4546 : Long-term benefits, not short-term benefits. The housing will be much welcomed in the future when things turn around again, which they will, as they
57 Tismfu : Thanks for the explanation(s) and yes, sorry for the off-topic posting. I'm anything but an economist, so I'm likely far off here, but I still feel th
58 MAH4546 : Eh...it's still a risk. The short-term effects, as we are seeing, are anything but pretty. Are they really that worth the potential long-term benefit
59 Dallasnewark : Actually it is not exactly Miami, but South Florida as a whole, Ft. Lauderdale has seen the biggest decrease in property values, but once again this
60 Dallasnewark : Mark, banking is extremely small compared to tourism when it comes to the economy of South Florida. Just because a foreign entity opens a branch in M
61 Post contains links MAH4546 : To South Florida as a whole, no. To the City of Miami, yes. Banking is, IIRC, the largest private industry employer in the City of Miami, larger than
62 Post contains links B752OS : No doubt Miami, thanks to its proximity to Latin America, is a solid financial city. #21 on this important and respected list. http://www.citymayors.c
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