Kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 11208 posts, RR: 41 Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8856 times:
Is the word "overshoot" really appropriate here; I know I'm being a bit finnicky, but the correct term should be "overran"; "overshoot" is a go around.
ABQopsHP From United States of America, joined May 2006, 723 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8689 times:
The FNL rwy is 8500ft long. Im wondering if density altitude played a factor. The temps are in the 70s.
JD
Xjet....going...going...gone/A lover of airliners from the 70s/80s
EWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5439 posts, RR: 60 Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8663 times:
Quoting Kaitak (Reply 1): Is the word "overshoot" really appropriate here; I know I'm being a bit finnicky, but the correct term should be "overran"; "overshoot" is a go around.
They seem to be synonymous. Kind of the 'to-may-to', 'to-mah-to' thing.
Radarbeam From Canada, joined Mar 2002, 1309 posts, RR: 6 Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8310 times:
Quoting Kaitak (Reply 1): Is the word "overshoot" really appropriate here; I know I'm being a bit finnicky, but the correct term should be "overran"; "overshoot" is a go around.
I agree with you. I was always taught that "overshooting" the runway meant going around.
G4LASRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 170 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7926 times:
Remember, that line was written by some ink-stained wretch, not someone versed in aviation terminology.
As far as the overrun is concerned, G4 has had some experience with that at FNL. Obviously the approach and landing weren't performed to the numbers and conditions on the landing data cards. I imagine someone's going to get some remedial simulator time over it.
"A pig that doesn't fly is just a pig." - Porco Rosso
FlyUSCG From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7377 times:
Quoting Kaitak (Reply 1): "overshoot" is a go around.
Quoting Radarbeam (Reply 5): I was always taught that "overshooting" the runway meant going around
Wrong, overshooting is going past something. In the most common, everyday usage for us, you "overshoot" final. ie: your in left traffic and your turning base to final, turn too late and fly through final so you have to turn back to the left to re-intercept. Or you overshoot the touchdown zone and land long, stuff like that. A "go around" is the wrong term because a go-around is completely breaking off an approach and climbing away from the airport in a calculated manner.
Geekydude From China, joined Apr 2004, 393 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7194 times:
Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 7): Did it go off the end of the runway, or did it just go off to the side because of the narrow runway?
It went off the end of the runway. The nose gear went off the pavement. But the same MD-80 loaded another batch of passengers and took off for Vegas the same afternoon.
Quoting Kaitak (Reply 1):
"overshoot" is a go around.
Quoting Radarbeam (Reply 5):
I was always taught that "overshooting" the runway meant going around
Wrong, overshooting is going past something. In the most common, everyday usage for us, you "overshoot" final. ie: your in left traffic and your turning base to final, turn too late and fly through final so you have to turn back to the left to re-intercept. Or you overshoot the touchdown zone and land long, stuff like that. A "go around" is the wrong term because a go-around is completely breaking off an approach and climbing away from the airport in a calculated manner.
ADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 905 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1807 times:
Leading story on the newscasts last night.
It looked like it overran the end of the runway about 10 feet.
There was a report that passengers were stuck on the plane for about an hour waiting for buses to take them to the terminal.
MD88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1258 posts, RR: 24 Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1683 times:
Actually guys, "overshoot" means go around in the UK. If the UK tower guys tells you to overshoot, he is using phraseology that means "go around" to an American. So a little confusion is normal on these boards. Overran is the word I'd use for this incident. Or "screwed up".
EXAAUADL From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 4083 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1624 times:
Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 2): The FNL rwy is 8500ft long. Im wondering if density altitude played a factor. The temps are in the 70s.
JD
In thin air and warm temps do aircraft require longer stopping distances?
G4LASRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 170 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1374 times:
True airspeed (TAS) goes up with density altitude. So yes, in thin air and warm temps (density altitude above a standard day) an aircraft travels faster through the air. So for a given headwind component, the aircraft will touch down at a correspondingly greater speed and will have a longer stopping distance.
The landing data cards or FMS will indicate the correct numbers to fly for a given aircraft weight, configuration, wind, temperature and runway condition. Under part 121 operations a flight cannot be released to a destination unless the planning data show that the aircraft can stop within the distance available and in the expected conditions at the expected time of arrival. The captain and the dispatcher both have to review and sign off on this.
An overrun indicates something was not as planned per the data cards or FMS. Some easy gotchas that come to mind:
Headwind component not as planned (gusty winds, wind shift during the flare, etc)
Aircraft configuration not as planned
Vref flown faster than planned (gusty winds)
Touchdown beyond the planned point (floating)
Brakes not as effective as planned (worn, low hydraulic pressure, etc)
Runway conditions not as planned (length due to NOTAMs, water, snow, ice, braking action, etc)
Real landing weight higher than planned (low fuel burn, cargo or pax weights heavier than manifest, etc)
"A pig that doesn't fly is just a pig." - Porco Rosso
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