Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Another Cirrus, Another Crash - Strange  
User currently offlineType-Rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5540 times:

Read this NTSB report:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20080502X00582&key=1

What could possibly have happened? All three persons on board fell asleep? That's a long nap.... Maybe a carbon monoxide leak?
At 10,000 supplemental O2 isn't needed, weather was fine.

The circumstances certainly aren't run of the mill. RIP to all onboard.

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJpax From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5469 times:

How redundant are the electrical systems on the Cirrus? I.E., if all the electrical systems have failed, communications are lost, which in VMC under an IFR flight plan would have them land as soon as practical at an airport. Are the Cirri FADEC? If so, wouldn't a full electrical failure (all redundancies failed) compose an engine out? Even then, they still would have full control of the aircraft.

Eitherway, strike another one up on the list for Cirrus.

"Moments later they observed the accident airplane descending nose down and impacting into the reservoir. " Aren't they notorious for poor spin recovery, or just no recovery whatsoever? Perhaps these poor fellows got into a spin and were SOL on the recovery, although that doesn't explain why the parachute wasn't deployed. Can't it be deployed in a spin?


User currently offlineNucsh From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 238 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5432 times:



Quoting Jpax (Reply 1):
Can't it be deployed in a spin?

Unless there's something physically wrong with the chute and/or deployment system, it will deploy if the pilot wants it too.

The issue in a lot of cases is the pilot failing to deploying it (be it pride, forgetfulness, or inability)



If landing is about "kissing" the ground, you just about raped it.
User currently offlineJpax From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5406 times:



Quoting Nucsh (Reply 2):

Unless there's something physically wrong with the chute and/or deployment system, it will deploy if the pilot wants it too.

That's what I figured.

Interesting reading on this review: http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/cirrus-sr20

Under the parachute section:

"On February 6, 2005, an SR22 pilot crossing the Sierra reported having trouble with ice (NTSB ID: LAX05FA088), despite the fact that his plane was equipped with the TKS ice protection option. He pulled the parachute, but was apparently going too fast at the time, which resulted in the cords ripping out of the airplane and the plane and pilot slamming into a mountainside."

Also,

"Canadian pilot Albert Kolk forgot to switch fuel tanks while flying along on autopilot. Eventually the autopilot couldn't hold enough aileron trim to keep the plane level and kicked off. The plane went into a steep spiral. Most pilots have trouble initially determining whether they are in a steep spiral or a spin (the airspeed indicator is key here; low airspeed = spin, high airspeed = spiral)."

And to conclude: "Because the only demonstrated way to recover a Cirrus from a spin is to pull the parachute"

Even though the NTSB report claims "No evidence has been located to suggest the ballistic parachute had been deployed. The wreckage recovery is ongoing." I would be quite interested to see if it was actually deployed, and was torn off, plummeting towards earth in spiral. There are also parts of the review stating how the ailerons have ripped off, entering the plane into a spiral.


User currently offlineType-Rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5316 times:

My suspicion based on the evidence provided was that the aircraft just flew a straight line at 10,000 ft until it ran out of fuel and crashed into the gulf. If there was nobody concious onboard, there would have been nobody to attempt spin recovery or a landing.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21590 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5297 times:

Sounds like what happened with Payne Stewart's jet.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineType-Rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5273 times:

Hauntingly similar...but with no pressurization problems. That's why I was thinking carbon monoxide. But Cirrus' planes are really too new to be dealing with leaky exhausts just yet?

User currently offlineJpax From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5225 times:



Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 6):
But Cirrus' planes are really too new to be dealing with leaky exhausts just yet?

Do they have the traditional exhaust shroud type heater? I'd be interested to know the statistics on the occurrence of leakages on these types of heaters. I've only heard of one experience with the carbon monoxide detector getting its lovely black spot, and I was told it was one hell of a scary spot.  Wink


User currently offlineType-Rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5105 times:

Here's the flight track....

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N729SR


User currently offlinePhatty3374 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5090 times:

Hi all,

Unfortunately my college roommate's good friend was aboard this plane  Sad . As of right now, he says they believe it was a gradual CO leak which caused the loss of consciousness of the pilot and both passengers, fuel exhaustion, and the subsequent crash. Horrible news, RIP.

Regards


User currently offlineXJETFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 327 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5004 times:

I have been considering getting my pilots license and doing a co-ownership on one of these babies. Seeing this does not make me feel good about buying one. My wife is already freaked out about the other crash. I had sold her on the parachute and how safe they were. This will only bring more doubt.

User currently offlineJpax From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4974 times:



Quoting XJETFlyer (Reply 10):
My wife is already freaked out about the other crash.

If only there was the other crash.  Wink


User currently offlineAPFPilot1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4947 times:



Quoting XJETFlyer (Reply 10):
I have been considering getting my pilots license and doing a co-ownership on one of these babies. Seeing this does not make me feel good about buying one. My wife is already freaked out about the other crash. I had sold her on the parachute and how safe they were. This will only bring more doubt.

Cirrus makes a very very safe airplane. I have quite a few hours in them now and I work with them on a daily basis. If you are considering, owning/traning in or just plan interested in Cirrui I would recommend joining COPA (www.cirruspilots.org) the amount of analysis they do of Cirrus flying and accidents is amazing. I have and I will continue to put my loved ones in an SR without any doubts of their safety. If you ever want to talk about the airplanes please feel free to send me an email or PM.


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4930 times:



Quoting XJETFlyer (Reply 10):
Seeing this does not make me feel good about buying one

You should look into the multitudes of other Cirrus crashes first.


User currently offlineFlywithken From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 223 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4871 times:

I guess Im kinda confused; They had not yet reached the destination, but yet people are speculating about fuel exhaustion?...Would that elude to poor fuel planning. i.e. Does that mean there was not enough fuel aboard to get to the destination anyway?

Ken


User currently offlineJpax From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4860 times:



Quoting Flywithken (Reply 14):
n, but yet people are speculating about fuel exhaustion?...Would that elude to poor fuel planning. i.e. Does that mean there was not enough fuel aboard to get to the destination anyway?

Max fuel with IFR reserves is more than enough (more than twice) for the 430mile flight from TUP-DWH. Unless they took off with what was just barely needed to meet their reserves, they shouldn't have ran out. Cirrus' website advertises 925miles cruise at 75% or 1000 at 55% power with full tanks and reserves.


User currently offlineXJETFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 327 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4462 times:



Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 12):
Cirrus makes a very very safe airplane. I have quite a few hours in them now and I work with them on a daily basis. If you are considering, owning/traning in or just plan interested in Cirrui I would recommend joining COPA (www.cirruspilots.org) the amount of analysis they do of Cirrus flying and accidents is amazing. I have and I will continue to put my loved ones in an SR without any doubts of their safety. If you ever want to talk about the airplanes please feel free to send me an email or PM.

Thanks


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4435 times:

Already been discussed (somewhat). We know more now:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/3953551/



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4321 times:



Quoting Type-Rated (Thread starter):
At 10,000 supplemental O2 isn't needed, weather was fine.

Several studies have shown decreased mental efficiency and decision making at altitudes as low as 4,000 ft. At 10,000ft altitude almost all people suffer some measurable decreased efficiency. And test subjects show improved mental efficiency with supplemental O2 at 10,000 or below.

10,000 ft is a dangerous altitude for people with reduced lung capacity, such as smokers and elderly. I have not clue if that might be a factor in this crash - but the preliminary report sounds a lot like the Lear when Payne Stewart was killed.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 13):
You should look into the multitudes of other Cirrus crashes first.

Since this crash was reported there have been the following fatal crashes in the US

EXP - 3
BE35 - 1
C172 - 1
LNC4 - 1
MO20 - 1
PA25 - 1
YAK5 - 1

There have been 32 non-fatal Cessna incidents, 8 Beech and 17 Piper. Of the 30 other reported incidents in different models of small single engined prop aircraft - only 1 was a Cirrus - a blown tire on landing at TEB.

Cirrus doesn't have a substantially higher, or lower, accident rate than other similar design / purpose aircraft.


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5130 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4202 times:



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 18):
Since this crash was reported there have been the following fatal crashes in the US

EXP - 3
BE35 - 1
C172 - 1
LNC4 - 1
MO20 - 1
PA25 - 1
YAK5 - 1

There have been 32 non-fatal Cessna incidents, 8 Beech and 17 Piper. Of the 30 other reported incidents in different models of small single engined prop aircraft - only 1 was a Cirrus - a blown tire on landing at TEB.

Cirrus doesn't have a substantially higher, or lower, accident rate than other similar design / purpose aircraft.

Great information there. I certainly would not be afraid to fly in one. They are also very nice looking birds.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3937 times:

Just seen this thread. ...Actually I have flown 12 Cirrus SR20/ SR22's from the USA to Europe. ...That was 11 new one's out of the factory in Duluth and one second hand SR20 that I flew from Los Angeles to the Czech Republic. ...Been thinking for some time whether or not I should go for my "13th" Atlantic crossing in the type or quit while I am ahead.

Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Another FedEx Crash In Texas posted Thu Oct 20 2005 01:48:32 by Slashd0t
Another Mu-2 Crash At Denver Centennial posted Thu Aug 4 2005 15:07:52 by DLKAPA
Another Helicopter Crash In Norway. posted Sun Nov 21 2004 15:08:40 by Thom@s
Another Plane Crash posted Sun Oct 24 2004 03:04:11 by 777ER
Another Fatal Crash CL415 posted Wed Mar 17 2004 22:44:25 by PW100
Another Air Crash In Pakistan posted Mon Feb 24 2003 16:50:56 by Thud
Another Plane Crash Claims 2 Lives In Texas posted Fri Oct 5 2001 02:35:15 by The747Man
Another Air Crash In Angola posted Thu Nov 16 2000 00:34:03 by Trvlr
Another Crash In Congo posted Sat Sep 10 2005 11:45:33 by NA
Another Crash In Congo-An26 posted Mon Sep 5 2005 20:21:50 by TKRULES
Another Antonov Crash In Africa? posted Fri Apr 18 2008 12:06:56 by Csturdiv
Another FedEx Crash In Texas posted Thu Oct 20 2005 01:48:32 by Slashd0t
Another Mu-2 Crash At Denver Centennial posted Thu Aug 4 2005 15:07:52 by DLKAPA
Another Helicopter Crash In Norway. posted Sun Nov 21 2004 15:08:40 by Thom@s
Another Plane Crash posted Sun Oct 24 2004 03:04:11 by 777ER
Another Fatal Crash CL415 posted Wed Mar 17 2004 22:44:25 by PW100
Another Air Crash In Pakistan posted Mon Feb 24 2003 16:50:56 by Thud
Another Plane Crash Claims 2 Lives In Texas posted Fri Oct 5 2001 02:35:15 by The747Man
Another Air Crash In Angola posted Thu Nov 16 2000 00:34:03 by Trvlr
Another Crash In Congo posted Sat Sep 10 2005 11:45:33 by NA