Xtra1 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 111 posts, RR: 2 Posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 59459 times:
Looking for images of the old upper deck 747 lounges. Can anyone help?
Most airlines of that period had the lounges decorated in a national theme.
A few examples, which I experienced and remembered as a child, are:-
Qantas, a Captain Cook theme.
JAL, a Japanese garden theme
(JAL used to call is original 747-100s, 'Garden Jets').
Pnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2374 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 59116 times:
I can remember touring one of the new 747's at Abbotford Airshow when I was a kid. Each of the four sections of the main deck had the theme of one of the seasons. The upper lounge wasn't open for the tour as the circular staircase wouldn't handle the volume of people. There was a gap when we were there so the person on the plane let us up the stairs for a quick look. It was similar to the United scheme very loud and ugly 70's colours when the main cabin wasn't too bad. Someone took a pic of us there but I can't find the slide.
Get a load of the seat pitch in economy, it looks massive.
The seat pitch is indeed unbelievable. I just flew DL78 JFK-TXL last night. The movie certainly shows a quality of travelling long and forever gone... I still can't belive that I paid $1300 for the flight and didn't even get a decent breakfast...
Jbernie From Australia, joined Jan 2007, 880 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 58541 times:
Quoting FlashFlyGuy (Reply 2): The Qantas Captain Cook Lounge - very nautical with the rope work and also so 70's...check out the hairstyles.
Will have to check with my dad, I could have sworn my parents flew SYD-LHR in 79 on QF. We all flew in Sept. 82, have no recollection of anything like that up there when my sister & I got to go see the Flightdeck, I was 7 & she was 11. We did have Elton John on the flight though so that was probably loud enough .
SXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2708 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 58414 times:
Hey do any of you know of any pictures of the upper deck in the original OA 747s? Anyone know if OA took up the "lounge option"? I do know the pictures a.net has of the OA upper deck are the non standard 212B.
Side question- what exactly was the 747-284B? What was the "B" for?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
Pnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2374 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 58227 times:
I should have added the 747 I was on had the old red Boeing colours of the roll out aircraft. I don't know have any information on it other than that. It could have been on a demonstration tour, it could be the 747 that is now parked at the Museum of Flight, or it could have been one of the test aircraft and later repainted and delivered to an airline. There were several AC people there and I remember them commenting that their 747 would be arriving soon.
FlashFlyGuy From Australia, joined Jan 2007, 439 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 57949 times:
Quoting Jbernie (Reply 7): Will have to check with my dad, I could have sworn my parents flew SYD-LHR in 79 on QF. We all flew in Sept. 82, have no recollection of anything like that up there
The lounge was gone on Qantas well before 1982 (the 747 had been in service with QF for 11 years in Sept. 82). The lounges only lasted a couple of years with most airlines, till they realised there was more money to be made by putting standard seating up there.
I remember we did a tour of the Qantas Jet Base about 1978/79 -- they used to run group tours you could phone up and book. They'd take you through the hangars, workshops and the training areas/classrooms for the crews. The simulators and then usually out to board and have a look over one of the aircraft in at the base between flights. We got to go over one of the 238B's that day and I can say on the upper deck it had about 12 or so seats, (could have been business class) in pairs. Then in the rear, there was a galley installed, which is where you can see the picture of Captain Cook in the above lounge photo.
Milesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2071 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 55539 times:
The original UA 747's had 36 inches of pitch in coach, nine across 2-4-3, and only sat about 360 people. The other domestic carriers 747's had similar configurations. The coach lounges were installed in 1972-1973 after the DC-10's introduced the coach lounge. October of 1973 brought the Yom Kippur War between Egypt and Israel, and signaled the first oil price shock. 1979 -1980 brought the Islamic Revolution in Iran and the 2nd oil price shock. By then coach lounges were long gone. 9 across seating was replaced by ten across, and pitch shrunk to 34 inches or less. Most First Class lounges lasted a little longer. They were replaced in mass when 3 class aircraft became the norm, with the upper lounge used for Business class seating.
Davescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 55481 times:
I noticed on the DL page, that the lounge could be reserved by F pax. Was this normal? I mean that you could reserve the lounge for a meeting or similar? Was it only for F pax? What services were offered trans-oceanic crossings?
Most of these aircraft were subsequently converted and the lounge was replaced by conventional seating. The conversion usually (always?) included the replacement of the three cabin windows with ten. This is seen in another photo of BA's first 741 taken in 1982 around 12 or 18 months after the conversion:
In the case of BA's aircraft my understanding is that Boeing completed the conversion with BA flying their aircraft to Boeing (at Mobile?) after completing a trans-Atlantic east-west revenue flight.
Initially all 747s were sold in the three-window version. I believe that the first delivered with the 10-window upper cabin was Sabena's OO-SGA (c/n 20401, l/n 91). This aircraft was delivered in November 1970.
For some time Boeing now shipped a mix of classic 747s, some with an upper deck lounge, some with a 10-window cabin. Eventually the lounge option was withdrawn. By that time around 240 747s had flown and about 160 or 170 had been originally fitted with an upper deck lounge.
As far as BOAC / BA is concerned at least 13 and possibly fourteen of their aircraft were delivered in the 3-window configuration, the rest in a 10-window configuration with the change over occurring almost exactly around the time that BEA and BOAC merged to form BA. And all the 3-window aircraft were converted in the very early 1980s.
Does anyone have old BA or even BOAC timetables that might tell us how the main cabin was configured before and after theses conversions and how the upper deck was configured after the conversions?
1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 54707 times:
At BA, originally there was First Class in the A and B zones and then economy in the rest of the plane. When the lounges went and Club World was launched, First Class was in the A zone and on the Upper Deck, Club in the B and C zones and then economy in the rest.
ETA Unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 54172 times:
The BA upperdeck 747-136 conversion was as follows: 18 business class seasts (5 rows on port, 4 on starboard). Fitted with super wide and uncomfortable bench seats so the middle section converted to a seat for an economy configuration.
The 747-236B's were delivered with 16 business class seats- (4 rows)- no extra port side row as space taken up with crew rest bunks.
well I am not sure if they were 'delivered' with business class seats, as my 'Junior Jet Club' log book shows I flew LHR-LAX on G-BDXE (747-236) on May 24 1978 in F and we definitely had an upper deck lounge
The return was from SFO on May 31, 1978 on G-BDXB in F and we had a lounge in the same configuration as shown in the YouTube clip mentioned in the OP's post:
I know this because during the red-eye flight many people sprawled out on the sofas to sleep (and I, being 6yo, was too excited to sleep and played with my BA rub-down transfer airport scenes on those cocktail tables all the way to London )
However, I have a feeling that the F-lounge on the out-bound flight had a different configuration from on the in-bound?
Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 18): First Class was in the A zone and on the Upper Deck, Club in the B and C zones and then economy in the rest.
For a while there was First class in the A zone plus 4 F-class seats in on the right handside B zone behind 2R (until at least the summer of 1985 when my family was assigned seats there UVF-LHR) Then there were J-class seats in the rest of B zone behind the lavs. But by 1985 the lounges were long-gone and I believe the upper deck was J or M depending on the route.
Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 18): When the lounges went and Club World was launched
I'm trying to remember the sequence of product development - BA's first Business Class product was launched in c.1981? and was called 'Club Class' (the days of the Elizabethan theme cabin furnishings) IIRC lounges were still around in F on 747s, but not for long,.
Then came 'SuperClub' with the ridiculously wide seat (plus ça change...SQ...) in c.1985
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 27787 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 53849 times:
Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 3): I can't find any pictures but CP used to have railway memorabelia in its lounges reflected the company history.
Yes CP Air's original 747-200 lounges were called the "Parlor Car Lounge" and featured railway memorabilia from Canadian Pacific's early days. There were a couple of replicas of old railway lanterns attached to the rear bulkhead as part of the decor.
Quoting VV701 (Reply 17): The conversion usually (always?) included the replacement of the three cabin windows with ten.
No, quite a few of the earliest 747s retained the 3-window layout until their retirement, including many operated by Pan Am and TWA. I believe about the first 150 747s (including both -100s and some of the first -200s) had only 3 windows. All 747s built after that point had 10 windows per side but some carriers that still used the upper deck for a lounge plugged some windows which were later unplugged when the lounge was converted to saleable seats. The early Pan Am and TWA 741s retained the 3 windows per side in their latter years although they had long since lost the lounge (I think they both used the upper deck for about 16 business class seats for their latter years of service).
The early 747s only had one emergency exit on the upper deck (on the right side) which limited the number of passengers that could be carried to about 16. Some carriers had a second upper deck exit added on the left side which permitted about 30 Y class passengers to be carried. KL was one carrier that had the 2nd upper deck exit added to their earliest 742s (P&W engines). You'll find some old photos in the data base of the same aircraft with no exit on the left side and later photos after the exit had been added. Example below, KL's first 747 (and the first 747-200 built).
No left side upper deck exit and 3 windows per side (when upper deck used as a lounge).
VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 8298 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 53718 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23): I believe about the first 150 747s (including both -100s and some of the first -200s) had only 3 windows.
I am not sure this is corerect. As I said in Reply 17 one of the earliest if not the first 10-window aircraft to be delivered was OO-SGA. This aircraft, destined for Sabena, is pictured here at PAE before it was painted over a month before its first flight on 3 Nov 1970 and later while in service with Sabena.
It was the 92nd production 747. So the 10-window version appeared well before the 150th aircraft.
From late 1970 when the above aircraft was delivered until well into 1974 Boeing continued to deliver 747s with both 3 and 10 windows to the upper deck. In my earlier reply I indicated this by suggesting around 160 aircraft were delivered with 3 upper deck windows and that these aircraft had line numbers up to around 240. This is confirmed by the photo below. It is of the 3-windowed C-FTOE which had a c/n of 20881 and the 747 line number 236:
The above aircraft was delivered to Air Canada as late as April 1974. Interestingly the next 747 for this airline (20977/250) was originally slated to be registered in the same sequence as C-FTOF. However this registration was not taken up. Instead the aircraft was registered C-GAGA. As the first of Air Canada's 10-window upper deck 747s I wonder if this registration change was to clearly differentiate between the two types for operational purposes. It even seems possible that the late change in registration indicates a late change in the specification of this particular aircraft. We can speculate whether such a change was made by the airline or by Boeing. Certainly I believe that Boeing delivered few if any 3-window 747s after C-FTOE.
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23): Quoting VV701 (Reply 17):
The conversion usually (always?) included the replacement of the three cabin windows with ten.
No, quite a few of the earliest 747s retained the 3-window layout until their retirement, including many operated by Pan Am and TWA.
Sorry I do not think I have made myself clear here. First I was discussing only the 747s operated by BA, not all 3-window 747s. And what I actually said was:
Quoting VV701 (Reply 17): Most of these aircraft were subsequently converted and the lounge was replaced by conventional seating. The conversion usually (always?) included the replacement of the three cabin windows with ten.
I used the word 'most' because two 3-window BA aircraft, G-AWNI (c/n 20271, l/n 172) and 'NK (20272/184) were not converted when all the other 3-window BA 747s were converted in, I believe, 1980. Instead these two aircraft were sold to JBB Leasing in the following year, 1981, for onward lease to TW. When sold they were still in the 3-window format and were then operated by TW still in this 3-window configuration.
: You're probably right. I had seen a number in an earlier thread on this subject (in Tech/Ops) and thought it was higher but I didn't bother trying to
: Now you've jogged the old brain cells....I'm pretty sure I can remember PR advertising beds on their upper deck as well.
: Yes, I also recall PR promoting their first class "Skybeds" on the upper deck of their 747-200s. A few references say they were introduced in 1985. T
: Nerd.. geek.. etc.. and nothing wrong with that either Serious question.. looking at all the lounges... i don't see any obvious signs of seat belts b
: That is the photo I remember from the ad. On the subject of photos - anyone else noticed that it's impossible to find any pictures of the 747 upper d
: Interesting pic of the UD of the AI 742's...obviously some sort of a promo pic taken back in '71-'72 when AI received their first lot of 742's and th
: Now those lounges look cool! I'd do anything to go back in a time capsule to experience that way of travel. Who needs a damn PTV or ipod?!?!?!
: Got an email from my dad re the lounges: I remember when Qantas were promoting this 1st Class lounge but by the time we flew they had converted it to
: Another Qantas ad I found, the same 'passengers' different crew. I didn't actually see the lounge seats myself, but I can't imagine they'd have been c
: Possibly Iran Air? A 'samovar' in the middle of the lounge. . China airlines. With golden, auspicious dragon and phoenix motifs. . Singapore Airlines.
: Standards in those days were no different....the AI UD lounges had seat belts on every seat....
: I know they were still there in 1974 as my mother visited one when she was flying NAN-SYD. Her and her friend got invited up to the empty lounge by t
: I can only repeat what I first said 24 hours ago:
: Xtra1: Those are some wonderful images! Damn I was born too late!
: American had a Piano Bar up there on some and removed them later
: According to every source I have read, the Piano Bar was on the main deck.
: I think that it is threads like this that ends "Is the flying golden age gone?" debates. Too bad I wasn't around back then
: And...US$2.50 for headsets... OK, OK, I'm an old fart...I remember the first Qantas 747 VH-EBA City of Canberra arriving into Sydney on delivery. I s
: Just nosied around on Flickr and found; Not a great photo but seat belts are in evidence here...appears to have been taken in 1972. Speaking of the pi
: Here are a couple more: United: TWA (albeit an artist's conception) Braniff: And last but not least I found this picture of the upper deck of the 747
: My favorite 747 upper deck memory was from when I was about 6 or 7. It must have been 1984 and my parents decided to take me to Switzerland to ski (ye
: Very realistic since it's not explosively lit. I wonder if that was in flight...
: Yes, AA's "piano bar" was an economy class lounge at the rear of their 747-100 cabins. I forget how long that lasted. And the "piano" was in fact a c
: We didn't have any transoceanic crossings with the 747 (except for the PanAm interchange) until 1979, after we no longer had the 747. If you read dow
: TWA for a while had a similar lower deck 'coach' lounge immediately behind first class section in addition to the upper deck lounge. Those were the go
: Thanks for posting all these great pics, everyone! I was just thinking about this subject the other day. I happened to be on the upper deck of a 747-1
: If you look at the overhead, it looks strangely as if it foreshadows the 777/787 interior.
: Here's an old UA 747 lounge....oh how those must have been the days of air travel.... compliments of www.710kmpc.com
: That's AA, unless UA was using AA uniforms! http://www.uniformfreak.com/1americanairlines.html