MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31122 posts, RR: 74 Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6978 times:
Quoting CatIII (Reply 4):
Also, looking at the list of future candidate cities, I would presume Addis, Yaounde, and Monrovia are high on the list.
While Delta certainly has been successful carving out a market for themselves in Africa, and the flights have supposedly done very well, the fact that JFK-LOS and JFK-DKR-NBO were canceled before they started shows they are heeding caution on expanding in the region. I really don't think ADD, ROB, and especially YAO are high on any list.
They actually have the "big six" markets - LOS, DKR, ACC, CPT, CAI, and JNB - covered.
Casablanca is the only near-term expansion I see feasible.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31122 posts, RR: 74 Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6847 times:
Quoting Greenair727 (Reply 8): I'm not sure of the routes, but if the DKR-JNB originates in ATL and DKR-CPT from JFK, where is the DKR-NBO coming from?
JFK-DKR-NBO 4x weekly and JFK-DKR-CPT 3x weekly was the original plan.
However, JFK-DKR-NBO has been canceled (at first delayed until December; now canceled entirely); so it is JFK-DKR-CPT 4x weekly.
Nickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1457 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6842 times:
Quoting Greenair727 (Reply 8): I'm not sure of the routes, but if the DKR-JNB originates in ATL and DKR-CPT from JFK, where is the DKR-NBO coming from?
JFK-DKR was going to operate daily with the aircraft continuing to NBO a few days each week and CPT on the other days.
Also, looking at the list of future candidate cities, I would presume Addis, Yaounde, and Monrovia are high on the list.
While Delta certainly has been successful carving out a market for themselves in Africa, and the flights have supposedly done very well, the fact that JFK-LOS and JFK-DKR-NBO were canceled before they started shows they are heeding caution on expanding in the region. I really don't think ADD, ROB, and especially YAO are high on any list.
They actually have the "big six" markets - LOS, DKR, ACC, CPT, CAI, and JNB - covered.
Casablanca is the only near-term expansion I see feasible.
I was thinking they cancelled JFK-LOS and JFK-DKR-NBO because of political unrest..........??
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
Mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9205 posts, RR: 14 Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6784 times:
Ok, thanks......I know that at the time they were planning to go ATL-LOS, they were having trouble finding a safe place for the crews to stay. I thought it was because of political unrest but it must have been just a crime problem.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
SeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 4277 posts, RR: 4 Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6758 times:
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 1): Talk of ATL-JNB nonstop and ATL-CPT non-stop with 77Ls
JNB-ATL would need a stop even with the 77L... it can't take off from JNB with full pax payload & enough fuel due to altitude and tire speed limitations. No plane in the world can do that mission consistently.
Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31122 posts, RR: 74 Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6672 times:
Quoting Airbuske (Reply 18): If only the airport authoroties at NBO got their act together and revamped the airport, DL could easily fill a 773ER if they flow nonstop to ATL
Easily fill a 773ER? Haha. No way they would be able to. Anything more than 3x weekly is a stretch, and it would still need to rely on cargo to make money.
Evan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6558 times:
Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 3): What routes are DKR-JNB/CPT operated with, and what are their approx block times?
IIRC, DKR-JNB was about 8 1/2 hours. I recommend not doing any crazy day trips to those places! The flight from ATL is loongg. However, if you were to only stay a day somewhere, make it Cape Town. Much nicer than JNB. Plus, the flights will most likely be more open because it's a new route.
It will be interesting to see what happens to Dakar once they have the airplanes to overfly it.
I'm betting 752 service from JFK.
Quoting CatIII (Reply 4): Also, looking at the list of future candidate cities, I would presume Addis, Yaounde, and Monrovia are high on the list.
I don't think those are prime choices. I see CMN, ABJ, and possibly ALG (can DL fly there?) in that order.
Quoting SeaBosDca (Reply 17): JNB-ATL would need a stop even with the 77L... it can't take off from JNB with full pax payload & enough fuel due to altitude and tire speed limitations. No plane in the world can do that mission consistently.
Perhaps then we will see it switched to JNB-JFK and CPT-ATL.
When DL and NW merge, I can see a 744 on ATL-LOS, simply for its cargo capacity. However, the seat capacity on the 744 might be overkill.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
Okapi From France, joined Jun 2006, 184 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6489 times:
Quoting CatIII (Reply 4): Also, looking at the list of future candidate cities, I would presume Addis, Yaounde, and Monrovia are high on the list.
ADD is already very well served from the US by ET. If you want to remain on Skyteam, go through AMS. NSI is also well served by both AF and KQ although the latter offers longer flight times. CDG to Cameroon is only 6/7 hours away. DLA is the obvious choice for entry Cameroon.
Monrovia? An SN monopoly. I don't see many carriers fighting to serve that airport. The country doesn't offer much security either. Better set for LAD (from ATL) or CMN.
Quoting Airbuske (Reply 18): If only the airport authoroties at NBO got their act together and revamped the airport, DL could easily fill a 773ER if they flow nonstop to ATL
Too much Skyteam in action over there. With AFKL the major partner for KQ, no chance a Kenyan T7 will reach US soil before late 2009. Moreover, pax are not ready to return as numerous as before to sandy beaches of Kenya. DL should offer connections via DKR through KQ for those pax willing to go to NBO or concentrate on available connections through AMS until the CDG route is re-opened and LHR's mess in sorted out (all Skyteam carriers moved to T4).
Maybe the new DLNW group could start operating pure cargo flights to Africa. This really makes money.
25 TwoLz2rn: Aren't there restrictions on flights to Angola? and aren't these flights money makers for the European airlines? I pray of the day that DL starts CVG
26 SeaBosDca: The 744 and 772 hold the same number of LD3 containers.
27 Aviateur: An article about DL's inaugural service to Dakar, in December 2006... an historic flight.... Nonstop to Africa for the first time in 15 years. Why sho
28 Airbuske: Why do you say so? As of now, most of the people who commute between North America and Nairobi are businessmen, diplomats, humanitarian workers and p
29 MAH4546: I agree with you. Hence, that is why I think a daily 773ER under no circumstances could be filled. The market isn't big enough, the tourist market is
30 Airbuske: Yes I agree the KL stake in KQ is another hinderance for KQ to launch its own operations.
31 Airbuske: As per my knowledge, the market in America is huge - Americans would love to go on a safari and watch the big five. What's missing is marketing and a
32 Flighty: That's a very impressive nearly 8200 mi journey. Well done for the A346, quite a route to serve. Even better if it could do both ways, of course. Agr
33 Flighty: At nearly 7400 miles, JFK-NBO requires 777 or A340 equipment. This means top levels of cost. It is actually more expensive to run the nonstop, not ch
34 Soups: JFK- BJL must be high on the list IAH-PHC will be a good route (Oil) maybe IAH-PHC-LAD?
35 TwoLz2Rn: Isn't PHC closed? Other than NBO and MAYBE CMN, i really don't think that DL has a market for routes to Africa. AF and KL already have a strong base i
36 RoyalAirMaroc: Doesn't DL codeshare with AT on the CMN-JFK route ?
37 Mayor: I wonder which African routes DL still has, unused, left over from the PanAm aquisition?
38 Davescj: I didn't realize they had this route already! Shows good planning on DL's part. I think the market in Africa can only grow. Dave
39 Cubsrule: It's just not that large, though. I'm not sure a widebody would be the most appropriate aircraft size-wise, but a narrowbody obviously isn't the most
40 MaverickM11: These are big markets (big is a relative term here) but most of the demand is to Montreal, particularly with ALG. If DL can't make JFKLOS work, ABJ w
41 Transpac787: They are full ETOPS-180, as DL uses their 757's to Hawaii also.
42 Cubsrule: Right, I should have been more clear. Are the Atlantic 752s ETOPS 180 as well? I thought they had a different subfleet for Hawaii...
43 Soups: GH flew ACC-BJL-BWI and GH-BJL-JFK, good loads from BJL NA flew to BJL from BWI (and maybe BJL) Many african american (and jamaican) fly to the Gambi
44 Norcal773: DL don't have a 773ER What sandy beaches in Kenya? There are only two worth checking out, Mombasa and Nairobi. I have to agree with this statement. M
45 MaverickM11: Yeah but where are they now? The "Roots" crowd isn't going to make BJL profitable, not by a longshot.
47 RobertS975: Yes, that has been going on for several years. There have been strong indications in the past, written up in several sources, that RAM would be a Sky
48 Norcal773: What happened to KQ joining Skyteam? Right now they are only showing as a Skyteam 'Associate'.
49 MAH4546: You are giving American too much credit. Most would go to the zoo, not spend $12,000 on a trip to Kenya. Besides, 70% of Americans can't even go to K
50 LH4116: The fares on CMN-JFK are rather high, it costs around 1300$ for a r/t. The most obvious reason to that is because AT is the only airline that flies t
51 RoyalAirMaroc: Well they should do. The current leased 763's will be returned much later on than the 787 deliveries, and i wouldn't be surprised if AT decided to ex
52 Viscount724: Yes, daily with a stop at DKR, currently using A340-300.
53 ENU: Nope, the decision followed the refusal by the Federal Government to grant DL the right to fly directly from a second city in the United States to La
54 Okapi: Indeed, DL's best African route is certainly CDG. When was your last time in Kenya? I haven't seen many beaches in Nairobi. Ever heard of places like
55 Norcal773: To be honest, not many people think of Kenya or Africa in general as a place with great beaches, except maybe Cape Town. You can probably blame this
56 MaverickM11: That and the general death, corruption, and misery in a lot of the locations. Americans aren't adventurous travelers, and Africa is by no means a tri
57 Davescj: Mexico is getting more dangerous, esp Mexico DF. And Ciudad Juarez (accross from El Paso TX) is dangerous as well. At least the tourist areas are sti
58 MaverickM11: It doesn't have much to do with reality. When Americans think "Africa" they think poverty, famine, and violence. When they think "Mexico" they think
60 FlyPNS1: Interesting article about DL's attempt at flying JFK-LOS. I don't know how accurate the article is, but if so, it looks like the Nigerian gov't might
61 MaverickM11: It's so infuriating and predictable--if they let DL fly JFK/LOS they would have hundreds of wealthy new people everyday flown in that the government
62 ConcordeBoy: For USA carriers perhaps... MX still holds the commercial service 752 record though, by more than 100 (ground) miles, however. Sure, if they wanted t
63 Okapi: True, but when it comes to marketing, most black African destinations are not easy to sell. Resorts belong to or are managed by European interests wh
64 Airbuske: Could you please explain how so? LOL, well now that you need a passport to go to the Bahamas, hopefully the trend will start to change.
65 Norcal773: If it changes, it'll change by single digits percentile. Some of us are too ignorant to tarvel outside the country unfortunately.
66 ConcordeBoy: ...any corroboration on what the offer actually was? I've heard everything from the airport (authority) offering direct financial assistance on newbu
67 Okapi: Well, I also forgot the review by FAA officials some times ago to check wether NBO could be compliant with FAA rules regarding airport security (i.e.,
68 ConcordeBoy: have all political obstacles been removed, for such a flight to take place though? Also, can't imagine the justification they could have for allowing
69 Okapi: Oil ! DL should really start a Dedicate (AF) style operation.
70 Flighty: Well, to be fair it really depends. In this case, you must purchase a 777 to run the nonstop vs a 767 for the 1-stop. 777s are clearly more expensive
71 Twolz2Rn: Thats a good idea! Make some 738s or the new 737s an all business class config. Are there any US carriers that offer this?
72 MAH4546: DKR-NBO is longer than JFK-DKR (Yes, Dakar is closer to New York City than it is to Nairobi). Flying to DKR-NBO does dedicate an entire airplane to a
73 Evan767: Really? I thought I read somewhere that it was lifted. Any idea on when US carriers will be able to fly there? I'm betting that as soon as they are D
76 MAH4546: Yup. Not by much, but Africa is a very wide continent.
77 Norcal773: Thanks, there's something I'd never have figured out.
78 Flighty: Sure enough, DKR-NBO is 3884 miles great circle. It seems to overfly about 20 small countries (including Democratic Rep of Congo, a large and chaotic
79 ConcordeBoy: ...hardly a motivator, so far as this sorta thing goes: if that was the case, there'd be USA flights to THR as well. Not even close. Hell, the USA ne
80 DeltaL1011man: They do but not due t. ETOPS/ The 4 birds that fly to Hawaii are exTZ 752s which are just like a DL bird with no PTVs(No AC vents) . but the 17 TATL
81 Okapi: I don't know about US carriers, I remember reading about Astraeus from Britain flying a weekly service from LGW to Malabo with a 73x. Main problem th
82 787KQ: That was a crock. Europeans know and go to Kenya primarily for the beaches. Americans go primarily for the safaris, albeit in smaller numbers than th
83 MaverickM11: Ha....if you can count them with more than one hand I'd be surprised. That said I'd be one of them.
84 Evan767: This is where I must have read it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beirut_...S_-_Lebanon_air_traffic_ban_lifted Granted, it's Wikipedia.
85 SkyTeamTriStar: Does DL have all 17 birds? 100% converted w/ DL specs; inside and out?
87 Umfolozi: I just had a quick look at the seat map of DL's inaugural flight 128 JFK - CPT on June 3rd. Plane virtually fully booked, with just two remaining seat
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