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US Airlines Expansion Into Middle-East/Africa  
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4403 times:

Does anyone else think we are going to start to see a large influx of flights on US carriers to the middle east? It seems that things are going that way, especially for carriers like United, DL, and CO. I know India isn't middle east, but the India market is becoming more populated as well by US carriers.

So what is the outlook on the US-Middle East flights on US carriers?

I know EK is planning a big expansion into the US, do you think that the US carriers are going to take them on? I sure wish they would.

UAL

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePHXtoDCAtoMSP From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4389 times:

US has stated a few times that it intends to serve the Middle East from PHL once they have the aircraft and the gates at PHL.

I would imagine they want TLV, IST, DEL, BOM to begin with.


User currently offlineHUYfan From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 1406 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4372 times:

I would'nt be surprised to see;

CO EWR-DXB

Regards

Mike


User currently offlineDALelite From Switzerland, joined Jun 2000, 1770 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4335 times:



Quoting HUYfan (Reply 2):
I would'nt be surprised to see;

CO EWR-DXB

this could happen, since Emirates already fly DXB-HOU.

cheers: DALelite



They loved to fly and it showed..
User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4247 times:

Delta has already taken the intiative by starting up ATL-TLV, JFK-TLV, JFK-AMM, JFK-CAI, ATL-DXB, and JFK-IST if you call that Middle East. Other potential markets I see besides those are KWI, AUH, and DOH...


The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8336 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4046 times:
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Delta needs to get more 777 before they have any serious Middle East expansion. Amman is about as far from JFK a 763ER is able get back to JFK from. Perhaps, Dl's ATL-DUBAI service would be better from JFK ?

User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3987 times:

DL also goes to Dakar and J'berg. I can see that growing to include Cape Town and Durban at some point.

But as pointed out, they need more metal. Calling Boeing for update on the 787 program.....

But when/if the NW merger happens, would that open up some metal?

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6124 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3932 times:



Quoting DALelite (Reply 3):

Not to nit-pick! It's DXB-IAH not HOU

That would be a hell of a surprise to people down at Hobby!

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4895 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3905 times:
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Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 5):
Perhaps, Dl's ATL-DUBAI service would be better from JFK ?

Why? ATL-DXB is doing very well and is even expanding to 6x weekly this summer.


User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3810 times:

My guess is that AA will not start flights to the Middle East on its own aircraft. Instead, it will rely on its One World partners or its new codeshare with EL AL.

I agree that DL won't expand its Middle East network until it acquires the 787 and more 777s. However, if DL and NW merge, perhaps its could obtain traffic rights from the AMS hub to IST, and destinations in the Middle East and India. Flights through AMS would supplement nonstop flights that DL operates from ATL and JFK.

US may start flights to TLV from PHL once it acquires more longhaul aircraft.

I think that CO will eventually inaugurate flights to more Middle East destinations from its Newark hub to cement its dominance as the American carrier with an extensive trans-Atlantic network. I also think that one day CO will fly to destinations in the Persian Gulf from IAH.

I don't expect UA to develop an extensive network in the Middle East. However, it already serves KWI, and it may add CAI, DXB, or another Middle Eastern destination from its hub in IAD. Who knows, maybe UA will launch IAD-DXB before EK, but I doubt it.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8336 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3810 times:
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Quoting Panamair (Reply 8):
Why? ATL-DXB is doing very well and is even expanding to 6x weekly this summer

Because JFK is New York's international airport and Delta serves New York well, if EK has gone from one to double daily and the first A380 is flying the route that tells you how great it is. ATL-Dubai could be served along with JFK to Dubai by DL, and a regular 777-200ER can do it, no LR needed here. Delta needs to get more 777 yesterday, EK might have a few to spare soon, Cathay Pacific or Thai or SIA or Malaysia.


User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3789 times:

Delta destinations in Middle East/Africa:

DKR
ACC
LOS
CPT
JNB
CAI
TLV
IST
AMM
DXB



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineCOalways From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3714 times:



Quoting HUYfan (Reply 2):
CO EWR-DXB

CO already had stated that once the 787 arrived they would start IAH-DXB, maybe there start with there 777 coming online in a year or so since there's a delay in the 787 deliveries?

Once CO start to take more delviries of there widebody A/C then there step there toes into Africa maybe there try again for LOS but this time im thinking its going to be out of IAH and another city there go for as rumored is JNB and CAI. I think once they get there foot into Africa and see how they make a good profit then they will add more Africa destinations.

So far for US carries the Leaders will be CO and DL for middleeast and Africa flights. CO and DL think outside the box among there US peers for profitable routes ouside of Europe for transatlantic routes


User currently offlineCatIII From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3029 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3677 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 10):
Because JFK is New York's international airport and Delta serves New York well, if EK has gone from one to double daily and the first A380 is flying the route that tells you how great it is.

Or it tells you that they have good feed through their DXB hub for onward traffic, or that the market may have too much capacity.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 10):
ATL-Dubai could be served along with JFK to Dubai by Delta, and a regular 777-200ER can do it, no LR needed here.

There's no -LR needed out of ATL either. I flew it a few months ago on Delta. Plain old 777.


User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3633 times:

I just read another thread which reports that UA announced that it will start IAD-DXB flights on October 26, 2006. According to the thread UA, will also start IAD-DME flights on the same date.

User currently offlineD328 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3531 times:



Quoting IAD380 (Reply 9):
US may start flights to TLV from PHL once it acquires more longhaul aircraft.

Yes when they stop being so cheap and and blaming Boeing for a A340/330 shortage like they did a few months ago, atleast from what I read on here.


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32723 posts, RR: 72
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3522 times:



Quoting IAD380 (Reply 9):
My guess is that AA will not start flights to the Middle East on its own aircraft. Instead, it will rely on its One World partners or its new codeshare with EL AL.

They certainly will not expand in the near-term, but long-term? If the market is there, of course they will. I'm betting Dubai will become just like Tokyo and London ten years for now...everybody will be there.



a.
User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3489 times:



Quoting PHXtoDCAtoMSP (Reply 1):
US has stated a few times that it intends to serve the Middle East from PHL once they have the aircraft and the gates at PHL

US seems to want to go everywhere, but haven't quite managed to go beyond Europe and North America (including the Caribbean). They barely even serve Central America (3 destinations doesn't make much of a network).

Tel Aviv is the most I can see US doing anytime soon.

Of course, China is coming up in under a year, so let's see how they do on that route.

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 9):
I agree that DL won't expand its Middle East network until it acquires the 787 and more 777s. However, if DL and NW merge, perhaps its could obtain traffic rights from the AMS hub to IST, and destinations in the Middle East and India. Flights through AMS would supplement nonstop flights that DL operates from ATL and JFK.

DL doesn't seem to be a fan of the Europe stop. They used to fly through FRA at first and then after hooking up with AF moved the India flights to CDG. But soon dropped one destination (MAA) and made the other (BOM) non-stop.

NW too has only the one non-US flight out of AMS, which is to BOM.

Europe - Middle East / Africa / Asia flying is best left to AF KL in my opinion.


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32723 posts, RR: 72
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3483 times:



Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 17):

Of course, China is coming up in under a year, so let's see how they do on that route.

At this rate, don't be so sure. They don't even have the planes yet.



a.
User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3471 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
At this rate, don't be so sure. They don't even have the planes yet.

Ha ha! True.

What about their little hissy fit about DL - US' favorite nete noire - moving terminals at PHL? Did anything ever come out of US' threat to shelve China plans?


User currently offlineHigherflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3442 times:



Quoting IAD380 (Reply 9):
I think that CO will eventually inaugurate flights to more Middle East destinations from its Newark hub to cement its dominance as the American carrier with an extensive trans-Atlantic network.

Actually, DL is the largest trans-Atlantic carrier.

Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 17):
Europe - Middle East / Africa / Asia flying is best left to AF KL in my opinion.

With DL's upcoming 777 deliveries later this year and early next year, I would expect to see further expansion into India from ATL and/or JFK.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3440 times:



Quoting COalways (Reply 12):
So far for US carries the Leaders will be CO and DL for middleeast and Africa flights. CO and DL think outside the box among there US peers for profitable routes ouside of Europe for transatlantic routes

sorry but this isn't a two horse race. DL has far outpaced CO to Africa/Middle East and is now ready to take a major step forward in India as their LRs are received.

DL has no limitations on its ability to serve the Middle East or South Asia. NW has 787s on order that will be delivered in DL colors and to DL specs. Also, you wil see a significant restructuring of DL and NW's int'l fleets in order to get more use out of fewer airplanes. Right now, NW has alot of widebody int'l capable aircraft flying intraAsia flights that do not need to be doing that. NW also does not fly any routes east of DTW than require a 777 or 747; part of DL's high utilization of its 777s is because it has routes going east and west from ATL that allow optimum aircraft use. when you are talking $100M plus aircraft assets, it makes sense to use them as efficiently as possible and the economics of starting a new route look very good if you can do it by using airplane time that otherwise would go unused. Remember also that DTW has a huge population of Middle East origin. DL will move quickly to optimize the global DL/NW route structure, properly match aircraft to demand and route, and start new routes that will be possible by connecting DL hubs with the rest of the world.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3376 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
Quoting IAD380 (Reply 9):
My guess is that AA will not start flights to the Middle East on its own aircraft. Instead, it will rely on its One World partners or its new codeshare with EL AL.

They certainly will not expand in the near-term, but long-term? If the market is there, of course they will. I'm betting Dubai will become just like Tokyo and London ten years for now...everybody will be there.

One would hope they start flights to DXB earlier. MIA/ORD-DXB would have been achievable now had AA management not have their heads up their bums.

Yes, AA has done well not filing for bk and paying down debt, etc. However, those aren't the only mark of good management. Looking for routes and city-pairs are just as important.

A nice dozen or so fleet of -200LR's would have helped. So what they are GE-engines? AA has CFMs in the fleet as well and AA m/x is second to none.

At least they have decided to start DME...  snaggletooth 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3249 times:



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 22):
ORD-DXB would have been achievable now

Now that UA is launching flights to DXB from IAD, I wonder if it wouldn't try to preempt AA and EK and make every attempt to become the first airline to inaugurate ORD-DXB flights. It would be a shrewd strategy. However, UA may not be able to start ORD-DXB flight before AA or EK because it has a shortage of longhaul aircraft and its financial position may be too wobbly.


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3178 times:



Quoting IAD380 (Reply 9):
My guess is that AA will not start flights to the Middle East on its own aircraft. Instead, it will rely on its One World partners or its new codeshare with EL AL.

EL Al can only fly people to Cairo, they pulled out of Istanbul and trasnferred Amman to Arkia.


25 Jacobin777 : EK was ready to go with ORD last year but didn't due to "aircraft shortage". Right now, EK has other priorities such as getting LAX and SFO rolling.
26 IAD380 : ORD is a hub for both AA and UA. When airline finances improve and the American economy strengthens, I expect that competition between AA and UA for m
27 Jacobin777 : AA OneWorld partner RJ already flies into the Middle East, so besides DXB, I don't see AA venturing off too far...not yet a least.. AA has ORD-DEL ri
28 Evan767 : If they have RJ as a partner, what stops them from going into AMM? They probably will wait and see how DL does. Or, it could just be one of those mar
29 MAH4546 : They'll leave Dubai to Chicago or Dallas; let Emirates have Miami. When AA grows some balls, I can see them expanding in Chicago-Middle East and Miam
30 Jacobin777 : You answered your own question... . RJ's revenue were up quite a bit since recently joining OneWorld. I could see RJ coming back to MIA. Yup, I think
31 WorldTraveler : AA is not going to grow until it gets its labor problems straightened. You tell me when that will happen and I'll tell you when AA will grow; until th
32 MAH4546 : Much to your dismay, it will happen.
33 WorldTraveler : I get no jollies out of AA employees being miserable and their company being unable to grow. I do however see little indication of a settlement anytim
34 Evan767 : AF is Delta's partner.. What stopped Delta from expanding all over France?
35 MAH4546 : Every airline goes through rough periods. AA will have no problem growing in the future, and they have good management and resources prepared to grow
36 ConcordeBoy : Doubtful, as DL tried to negotiate for some of EK's 773As, and the airline instead renewed their leases An extremely Paris-centric transoceanic marke
37 WorldTraveler : I suppose it makes you feel better thinking that other carriers will struggle but it is not at all certain that DL/NW will struggle at all. Integrati
38 Higherflyer : Not trying to start a flame war, but there will be quite an argument against that statement considering the recent MD-80 grounding (the second one, n
39 STT757 : CO has stated their intentions of launching flights from IAH to DXB once the 787s start arriving, however EWR-DXB will most likely be launched first
40 COalways : Yeah i was thinking the same CO doesnt like falling behnd once other carriers start to invade an international market look at ATH after the DL & US en
41 Commavia : It's also not at all certain it will be flawless. As I've long said - I think the reality will be somewhere in between. It won't be a train wreck, bu
42 WorldTraveler : which goes to show what you don't know about mergers. There is a great deal that can and should be talked about at this point including personnel, te
43 COalways : Remember WorldTravler has to Hype up everything that pertains to Delta it gets SOoooooo OLD but its funny at the same time.
44 CatIII : Yeah, that pilot integration is going swimmingly. They're all singing "kumbaya"...
45 Ocracoke : I'm not quite sure if you realize this or not, but DL has been flying to ATH since 1991.
46 Jacobin777 : Ok, a small glitch, but given the vast amount of work they do, its still basically second to onone... So you think AA will never serve any ME or Afri
47 Planefxr : I am going to guess woefully uninformed. I am still trying to figure out how LUV came out of this so clean, after all their wrong doings were blatant
48 OA412 : Yeah that comment was a bit of a head scratcher. While I don't think we'll see AA in TLV any time soon for obvious reasons, I have no doubt that AA w
49 Higherflyer : As someone who was involved in the groundings on an operational level, I have to say not uninformed nor disrespectful of AA's maintenance operations.
50 Commavia : Well, there are plenty of AA mechanics who would take major issue with that statement. To many of them, there was no such incorrect sheathing install
51 Planefxr : Precisely.
52 Jfk777 : DUBAi DUBAI DUBAI is the new refrain, see you in Dubai preferably flying Emirates.
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