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737-400: With Winglets?  
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6077 posts, RR: 24
Posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 7118 times:

I could have sworn I saw a 737-400 with winglet (a pic) a few months back. Are there actually some out there?

ASSFO


"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEXTspotter From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 7039 times:

I am not so sure. Where putting winglets on the -300 and -500 drastically increased range, the -400 doesn't gain nearly as much in extra lift compared to the smaller variants. Range on Full payload would only increase 400-500nm compared to more than 1000 on the others.


AF BE BY FR MV PD SZ U2 VZ DHC6, 8-3/4Q, 732/8, 763ER, A319, A380
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6077 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 6895 times:

I understand that. But I thought I saw a picture of a -400 and i am looking for it.

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 6839 times:



Quoting EXTspotter (Reply 1):
I am not so sure. Where putting winglets on the -300 and -500 drastically increased range, the -400 doesn't gain nearly as much in extra lift compared to the smaller variants. Range on Full payload would only increase 400-500nm compared to more than 1000 on the others.

Whoa, since when do winglets add approximately 30% to range on the -300/-500 variants?


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 6830 times:

I don't think the -400's are certified for the winglet fits. But don't quote me on that.


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineFlyHoss From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 6797 times:



Quoting AS739X (Thread starter):
I could have sworn I saw a 737-400 with winglet (a pic) a few months back. Are there actually some out there?

ASSFO

Which airline? IIRC, winglets aren't certified on Boeing 737-400s. Did you see an winglet equipped AS 737-800?



A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
User currently offlineLarshjort From Denmark, joined Dec 2007, 1409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 6789 times:

Quote:
Winglets are also available for Classics. The first winglet equipped 737-300 flew in Nov 2002 and gained its FAA supplemental type certificate (STC) on 30 May 2003. The STC for the -400 was gained in 2005. Winglet equipped Classics are known as Special Performance (SP).

Winglets have the potential to give the following benefits:

Improved climb gradient. This will enable a higher RTOW from climb limited airports (hot, high or noise abatement) or obstacle limited runways.
Reduced climb thrust. A winglet equipped aircraft can typically take a 3% derate over the non-winglet equivalent aircraft. This can extend engine life and reduce maintenance costs.
Environmentally friendly. The derate, if taken, will reduce the noise footprint by 6.5% and NOx emissions by 5%. This could give savings on airport noise quotas or fines.
Reduced cruise thrust. Cruise fuel flow is reduced by up to 6% giving savings in fuel costs and increasing range.
Improved cruise performance. Winglets can allow aircraft to reach higher levels sooner. Air Berlin notes, “Previously, we'd step-climb from 35,000 to 41,000 feet. With Blended Winglets, we can now climb direct to 41,000 feet where traffic congestion is much less and we can take advantage of direct routings and shortcuts which we could not otherwise consider.”
Good looks. Winglets bring a modern look and feel to aircraft, and improve customers' perceptions of the airline.

http://www.b737.org.uk/winglets.htm

According to this the 734 gained the supplemental type certificate in 2005

/Lars

*edit*

http://pdf.aiaa.org/jaPreview/JA/2006/PVJA13987.pdf

Quote:
Current applications on a Boeing 737-400
of a blended single, passive winglet3 reduces drag by 7%, though
wind-tunnel tests had indicated only 2% drag reduction.



[Edited 2008-05-06 16:23:05]


139, 306, 319, 320, 321, 332, 34A, AN2, AT4, AT5, AT7, 733, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 146, AR1, BH2, CN1, CR2, DH1, DH3, DH4,
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 6776 times:



Quoting Larshjort (Reply 6):
According to this the 734 gained the supplemental type certificate in 2005

That isn't a very good source... Does APB have the certification documentation on their website or does anyone have the certification for the -400 anywhere? I swore I have read on these forums in the past that the -400 was not to get certification because the return would be minimal, plus there are not very many U.S. 734's flying around except for US and AS. So it is not worth the mods.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6077 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 6731 times:



Quoting FlyHoss (Reply 5):

I worked for Alaska 10 years Hoss, one would hope I can tell the difference between my own planes. I don't think I mistaken my 800 for a 400.

Back to topic. All I'm getting at guys is a swore I saw a picture of a -400 in Europe (picture) of a -400 with winglets and if anyone could find the pic. Or, can someone please post a definitively answer that the 400 has no winglet types.

Thanks

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineFlyHoss From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 6731 times:

APB's web site doesn't list the 737-400:

http://www.aviationpartnersboeing.com/products/index.html

Did another vendor certify winglets for the -400? If so, I'm not aware of it.



A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
User currently offlineLN-KGL From Norway, joined Sep 1999, 1001 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 6703 times:

Here is a list of current operators of winglet equipped 737 Classic:
Air Baltic -300
Brussels -300
Continental -300/-500
Hamburg International -300
Norwegian -300
Southwest -300
Thomsonfly -300

In other words no -400 with winglets as of today


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8653 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 6674 times:

AS,

Did it look like a corporate converted 734?

Hunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineMSYPI7185 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 6591 times:

The 734's can be fitted with winglets. I do not believe that the certification was obtained, because the cost/ benefit was so horrid. Basically there is nothing to be gained by the addition, so there is not a market for this conversion, therefore no certification exist for this conversion. Why spend several hundred thousand dollars when you will never be able to recover the cost.

Just my  twocents 

MD


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 6527 times:



Quoting MSYPI7185 (Reply 12):
The 734's can be fitted with winglets.

No one said they can't. We all know they can. I think the main question should be if the 734's are certified for the refit and if so, where is that documentation? But like I said in my original post, it wouldn't be cost benefitual for US or AS to refit them, which I do agree with. The savings wouldn't be noticeable.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineMSYPI7185 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 6412 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 13):
I think the main question should be if the 734's are certified for the refit and if so, where is that documentation?

Based on what I have read in various places on the past year or two, the simple answer is no.


User currently offlinePSPfan From Netherlands, joined Mar 2008, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 6250 times:
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Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 10):
Here is a list of current operators of winglet equipped 737 Classic

You can add Ukraine International to that list.

Regards
PSPfan



Fixit002Heavy
User currently offlineLN-KGL From Norway, joined Sep 1999, 1001 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 6073 times:

PSPfan, you are correct - UR-GAH / MSN 29130 - winglets installed sometime between late January and early March this year.

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