Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
CI Pilot-in-Command Took Photos On The Final Leg  
User currently offlineTurbojet From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 21 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9870 times:

Got this photo from a blog. According to the comment, the CI pilot-in-command was trying his new camera while on the downwind leg. The aircraft was about 3000 ft to touch down. It is just unbelievable.

http://f23.yahoofs.com/myper/6ulnWaC...0306105642119.jpg?TTcHUIIBDnG64Mr1

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12468 posts, RR: 37
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9879 times:

Is there just one photo? That's all I can see.

User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1447 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9851 times:

Won't this get him in trouble and who the heck took the picture?


If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9032 posts, RR: 75
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9812 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR



Quoting Turbojet (Thread starter):
The aircraft was about 3000 ft to touch down. It is just unbelievable.

If you are in Frankfurt on the downwind it can take up to 15 minutes until touchdown even if you are at 4000 feet above the ground. And if the A/P is still enganged it's not that bad to take pictures at that point of the flight. If you are flying manually, releasing the controls to take a picture, THAT'S for sure stupid...

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9737 times:



Quoting Turbojet (Thread starter):
Got this photo from a blog. According to the comment, the CI pilot-in-command was trying his new camera while on the downwind leg. The aircraft was about 3000 ft to touch down. It is just unbelievable.

1) Your link isn't working

2) Since no one has asked yet, what's your point? I have been on downwind at 3000' only to turn final 15 minutes later. It's not unsafe and there's nothing wrong with it.


User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9032 posts, RR: 75
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9719 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 4):
1) Your link isn't working

A few minutes ago it was working fine! I bet he removed the pic from the internet. The only thing you saw was the CP sitting in his seat with a small camera in his hands. Picture was taken from the jumpseat I'd say behind the CP! that's all you saw...

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 4):
2) Since no one has asked yet, what's your point? I have been on downwind at 3000' only to turn final 15 minutes later. It's not unsafe and there's nothing wrong with it.

Agreed! That's what I posted as well! Nothing wrong with it as long it is not unsafe...

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineRyanair!!! From Australia, joined Mar 2002, 4755 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9693 times:

3000ft is quite a height to be descending from if he was downwind heading for a final approach. It could even be higher than a normal circuit pattern height for some aerodromes. However, if it was part of a normal arrival path and he still had some time ahead of him to play with, it is fine I guess. Nothing really wong with it from what I see. However, your link is not working so I cannot really judge.


Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9679 times:

Looks like a 744. The copilot could have been flying.

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 3):
If you are flying manually, releasing the controls to take a picture, THAT'S for sure stupid...

Get a camera you can use with one hand.  Smile


User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9032 posts, RR: 75
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9661 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR



Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 8):
Looks like a 744. The copilot could have been flying.

Or the autopilot!

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 8):
Get a camera you can use with one hand. Smile

hehe yeah right Big grin

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineRadarbeam From Canada, joined Mar 2002, 1310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9613 times:



Quoting Turbojet (Thread starter):
Got this photo from a blog. According to the comment, the CI pilot-in-command was trying his new camera while on the downwind leg. The aircraft was about 3000 ft to touch down. It is just unbelievable.

Interning for the Daily Mirror?


User currently offlinePoint8six From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9474 times:

It is a B747-400. The photo was taken from the centre 'jump-seat', probably by the relief pilot.

User currently offlineSabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9381 times:

It seems that today you have to think twice before letting somebody in your cockpit, because next thing you know they slip out a small camera from their pocket and take pictures which are subsequently posted on the net and then get comments like these:

-) is it safe for the PIC to take a photo while his plane is on A/P (with the F/O as PF) on a downwind in FRA, 15 to 20 min before landing?

-) should the pilot be turning his head towards the camera of the jumpseater and smile for a picture in cruise? Shouldn't he be looking outside, scanning for traffic 14 hours uninterrupted?

-) can a captain scratch behind his ear for a second on short final?

-) why is his hand not on the throttles on this picture?

etc etc

It just shows many people have no clue as to what it is like in a cockpit of a fully automated airliner and seriously think the pilots should still have their hands on the stick/yoke and throttle with their eyes on the sky outside for every second the plane is airborne!

Let's get alive here for a second shall we?

In a modern airliner flying into a large international airport like FRA, it is far more dangerous on the ground than it is in the air, so THAT is where you'll need your concentration and I am sure most colleagues will confirm they have taken more pictures from a flying plane, than from a taxying one at airports like these!

Let's say that under normal conditions, once above 10,000ft on take-off, or untill you are turned in towards a LOC for landing, a PNF can be doing pretty much whatever he wants without being considered reckless by the PF next to him...


User currently offlineMedAv From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 80 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 8797 times:



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 3):
If you are flying manually, releasing the controls to take a picture, THAT'S for sure stupid...

Perhaps it's different with jets, but in private pilot school students are usually taught NOT to have their hands on the controls at all times. Airplanes, once put into a stable configuration, tend to stay that way. When your hands are gripping the controls, you tend to unconsciously move them.

Regardless, if they were close to landing at a busy airport, in a perfect world they probably should both be concentrating on the cxlists/screens/environment/ATC chatter, and whatnot.


User currently offlineTurbojet From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 8561 times:

A few updates on this:

1. The pilot was actually the pilot-in-command. It was not the FO who flew the aircraft. The SO sitting in the jump seat took the photo.

2. Accoding to the comment on the blog, the pilot was an ex-military pilot and may have very good relationship with the management because of long time working relationship back in military days. He was closed to retirement.

3. Someone has forwarded the blog address to CI's management and the blogger, who is also a CI pilot, has been warned by his management.

4. The blogger once said there are several such "senior" ex-military pilots. They are usually paired with a group of young good pilots, who was trained by civil pilot schools.

I certainly want the pilot, who is flying the aircraft I am on, does not take his duty lightly regardless how many landings he has done in the past. I have to shut off my electronic gears on the final approach. Should the same rule apply to flying and cabin crew?

I do not believe CI has sincerely improved their safety standard. They claimed recent accidents were all related to design error. I am wondering how come these misfurtune desgin errors all ended up causing CI's recent accidents.


User currently offlineAPFPilot1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 8526 times:



Quoting Turbojet (Reply 14):
I certainly want the pilot, who is flying the aircraft I am on, does not take his duty lightly regardless how many landings he has done in the past

If he is getting close to retirement maybe he wanted to snap some pictures of his final flight. Who cares, something like this has 0 effect on the safety of flight.


User currently offlineRadarbeam From Canada, joined Mar 2002, 1310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8352 times:

I really wonder what you are trying to accomplish with this thread. You seem to want to tarnish this pilot's name for one reason or another?

I'll ask my question again, which tabloid do you work for?


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17039 posts, RR: 66
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8314 times:



Quoting Turbojet (Reply 14):
I certainly want the pilot, who is flying the aircraft I am on, does not take his duty lightly regardless how many landings he has done in the past. I have to shut off my electronic gears on the final approach. Should the same rule apply to flying and cabin crew?

You have 2-3 experienced pilots posting above who disagree with you. It's not like the guy was turning barrel rolls. He just took a picture or three. Big whoop.

Quoting Turbojet (Reply 14):
3. Someone has forwarded the blog address to CI's management and the blogger, who is also a CI pilot, has been warned by his management.

Probably because of the potential for bad publicity, not actual danger.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineNicholaschee From Australia, joined Oct 2005, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8314 times:

Quoting Turbojet (Reply 14):
1. The pilot was actually the pilot-in-command. It was not the FO who flew the aircraft. The SO sitting in the jump seat took the photo.

So who is actually flying the plane? PIC is not the same as Pilot Flying. PIC is for the whole flight, regardless of who's actually flying at any given time.


[Edited 2008-05-07 16:53:04]

[Edited 2008-05-07 16:54:57]

User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8163 times:



Quoting Turbojet (Reply 14):
I certainly want the pilot, who is flying the aircraft I am on, does not take his duty lightly regardless how many landings he has done in the past. I have to shut off my electronic gears on the final approach. Should the same rule apply to flying and cabin crew?

I do not believe CI has sincerely improved their safety standard. They claimed recent accidents were all related to design error. I am wondering how come these misfurtune desgin errors all ended up causing CI's recent accidents

As I asked earlier, what is your point? To be honest, you're making or trying to make a big deal over nothing at all. There is NOTHING unsafe about what has happened. Perhaps you can show me where the Captain is taking his duty lightly.


User currently offlineRyanair!!! From Australia, joined Mar 2002, 4755 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8037 times:

Turbojet,

In case you didn't know, the aircraft does not fall out of the sky just because you leave your hands off the yoke for a minute to fiddle with a camera. It does not happen with a small little Cessna, and it sure as hell won't happen on a multi-million dollar 747-400. Heck, even when the engine dies, it still glides! While an approach results in several stages of work to be completed in order for the flight to continue, there are pockets of lull within which there is nothing to do so if a pilot sees fit to snap an exterior shot with his pocket camera, who are we to say anything about it?

Not sure how much you know about CAL and the strides they have made within the last few years in an attempt to improve themselves on the safety front. Improved CRM, emphasis of civillian trained pilots etc... So I cannot help it if you want to focus on the bad.

In conclusion, there is REALLY NOTHING WRONG with that picture.



Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1447 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7941 times:



Quoting Turbojet (Reply 14):

You definately have your pants tied in a knot, get over it sir!



If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3527 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7941 times:

Like others - I fail to see any significance to this situation at all. The OP is needlessly sensationalizing a non-issue.

3,000 feet is incredibly high - that's a short cross country altitude for Cessna's and other GA aircraft. Even if you're in the space shuttle (well, OK, maybe not the space shuttle - they descend at something like 3,000 feet per minute on final), there's at least a few minutes before you're landing ... and if the air is clear, the wind is light and the runway in sight - take the photo.



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineTurbojet From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7839 times:

I did not think there is anything wrong with that picture until I read the blogger's comment on the scenario behind that picture. It seemed to me that the blogger, another CAL pilot, also thought this was bad. There were some disagreement on my earlier post. I respect that.

I am not a pilot and certainly have no experience on the yolk. Thank you all for educating me on what's going on behind the cockpit door. The last two comments on my second post were merely my personal feeling as a passenger.

[Edited 2008-05-07 19:14:32]

User currently offlineMrBrightSide From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 202 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7759 times:

Yawn.... speak greatly of YouTube videos where PIC is landing his 744 on SXM (both landing and take-off), and then if someone takes a picture, omg, omg omg, world is gonna end, XX airline is nothing else but PoS.

Seriously... today pilots "launch" their planes with AP, so what - big deal. What is important is that aspects of flight are kept inside safety margin, that's about that. 15 secs for a picture does not make a difference with AP in action...



There's no better way to travel than fly (shameless rip of LH's slogan ;-)
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7756 times:



Quoting Turbojet (Reply 23):
I did not think there is anything wrong with that picture until I read the blogger's comment on the scenario behind that picture

Since the link originally provided isn't working and you haven't posted the comments, I can assure you there is nothing unsafe/wrong with what is going on. If the comments are what you posted in post #14, then it would seem as though someone has an axe to grind with the Capt. Again, there is nothing wrong.

If he was the PF (Pilot Flying), it's not a big deal. As has been pointed out several times 3000' on downwind is not close to landing.

Quoting MedAv (Reply 13):
Perhaps it's different with jets,

Yes, it is. That's what makes the autopilot so nice.....


25 Mandala499 : This is the most likely case. Airlines are getting paranoid on bad publicity over recent years. First, it's the "yoke" not yolk (it's an airplane not
26 Anonms : Haven't you been keeping up with the news? A 738 problem that other 738s shared caused the Naha explosion that had no fatalities, the runway overrun
27 PhilSquares : Sorry, but incorrect. Another urban legend. There isn't a single commercial airliner in service today that can accomplish a "auto pilot on" takeoff.
28 777jaah : I'll definetively go with you guys, we all know you're experienced pilots in big jets, so your judgment is enough for me. Have you ever landed in a c
29 DualQual : Yesterday while on departure I took my hands off of the yoke for a second or two to retrieve my sunglasses from my flight kit. No the AP was not engag
30 Saab2000 : Did you include all this information in your NASA, ASAP and Irregularity reports?
31 Planespotting : I was jumpseating with a Captain and F/O once who, with total disregard for passenger safety, started chatting about non-flight pertinent issues at 9
32 DualQual : Well you gotta remember there is a little error in the altimeter Of course! The union is also getting the lawyers ready.
33 Brenintw : Apple Daily methinks.
34 MrBrightSide : Actually, not an urban myth. Blame in-flight cockpit videos that show just one hand of PIC touching AP button and airplane accelerating. Happened on
35 Mandala499 : Titles of the videos and aircraft would help... so we can see what the pilot is actually doing and determine if it was a "one button A/P launch" or s
36 CatIII : Probably engaging the authothrottles depending on the airplane.
37 Post contains links and images Paparadzi : Self plug. View Large View MediumPhoto © M Radzi Desa Took about 100 ft vertical on the ILS to get the camera out, shoot and put it back in the b
38 N6238P : Am I alone in thinking that if I called downwind "the final leg" on a check ride I probably wouldn't pass? Would it be out of line if I suggest a titl
39 WILCO737 : Downwind is parallel to the runway heading in the opposite direction in which the land! So runway 25 in use, you fly parallel to the runway with a he
40 MrBrightSide : Well, it is not what happens, but perception of what happened. Camera can only capture so much, and when you see a single button (with left hand on A
41 Post contains links PhilSquares : You need to refresh your memory. The tail strike in AUK had nothing to do with the autopilot. Look here for a fairly good synopsis. http://findarticl
42 Post contains images Futurecaptain : Wimp.
43 Copter808 : In the unlikely event the camera causes problems with the instruments, etc., all he has to do is to turn it "off." Pretty easy to do when you're cert
44 MD88Captain : "certainly want the pilot, who is flying the aircraft I am on, does not take his duty lightly regardless how many landings he has done in the past." M
45 Ryanair!!! : " target=_blank>http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...59387 I think you are referring to AKL (Auckland), not AUK.
46 Point8six : MrBrightSide I would hope that in your profession, you check the facts before going into print - but obviously not. Are you from The National Enquirer
47 Ryanair!!! : Hmm... First of all, it is not a 747-400. The first ever 747-400 to be lost was a runway overrun in HKG, not the Nagoya incident that you are referri
48 PhilSquares : You're correct, my mistake. Just back from a looooong trip.
49 Post contains links Mandala499 : MrBrightSide, Considering that you're a "Journalist - Editor" I'd expect you'd check up on these stuff beforehand... Even the newest Airbuses, you do
50 CatIII : What are you rambling on about? You said: I responded that the action you saw was probably the captain selecting an authothrottle mode. That has noth
51 Midcon385 : That would be the captain engaging the TO/GA mode on the autothrottles, setting takeoff thrust. The autopilot is never used on takeoff. Tim
52 BAW716 : As long as he wasn't the pilot flying, what's the issue? baw716
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Youngest Pilot In Command In 737 300 posted Sun Apr 20 2008 19:15:24 by Chato122
Viewing Photos On The DB posted Fri Aug 15 2003 06:02:25 by Aardvark
Anyone Here Work In FRA Or LHR On The Ramp? posted Wed Oct 3 2001 12:24:37 by Abhi
Eastern's L-188: Bombed On The BOS Tarmac In '76? posted Sat Jan 19 2008 23:48:55 by Zudnic
New In-Seat Air Bags On AA Biz Class (Photos) posted Tue Dec 11 2007 07:41:34 by Gh123
Chinese Standing Up In Planes On The Runway posted Mon Oct 22 2007 18:01:59 by UAL747
Seattle PI: Airbus A350 Muscles In On The 777 posted Tue Jul 31 2007 19:54:27 by Douwd20
UA 933 (FRA-IAD) On The Ground In AMS posted Mon Jun 18 2007 19:10:35 by EHAM
Did TWA Ever Use 747 On The LAX-JFK In The 80s posted Mon May 28 2007 20:35:39 by 747400sp
A380 On The River Visual In DC? posted Mon Mar 26 2007 17:28:41 by RJpieces
Eastern's L-188: Bombed On The BOS Tarmac In '76? posted Sat Jan 19 2008 23:48:55 by Zudnic
New In-Seat Air Bags On AA Biz Class (Photos) posted Tue Dec 11 2007 07:41:34 by Gh123
Chinese Standing Up In Planes On The Runway posted Mon Oct 22 2007 18:01:59 by UAL747
Seattle PI: Airbus A350 Muscles In On The 777 posted Tue Jul 31 2007 19:54:27 by Douwd20
UA 933 (FRA-IAD) On The Ground In AMS posted Mon Jun 18 2007 19:10:35 by EHAM
Did TWA Ever Use 747 On The LAX-JFK In The 80s posted Mon May 28 2007 20:35:39 by 747400sp
A380 On The River Visual In DC? posted Mon Mar 26 2007 17:28:41 by RJpieces
Chinese Standing Up In Planes On The Runway posted Mon Oct 22 2007 18:01:59 by UAL747
Youngest Pilot In Command In 737 300 posted Sun Apr 20 2008 19:15:24 by Chato122
Anyone Here Work In FRA Or LHR On The Ramp? posted Wed Oct 3 2001 12:24:37 by Abhi
Seattle PI: Airbus A350 Muscles In On The 777 posted Tue Jul 31 2007 19:54:27 by Douwd20
Viewing Photos On The DB posted Fri Aug 15 2003 06:02:25 by Aardvark
Eastern's L-188: Bombed On The BOS Tarmac In '76? posted Sat Jan 19 2008 23:48:55 by Zudnic
Anyone Here Work In FRA Or LHR On The Ramp? posted Wed Oct 3 2001 12:24:37 by Abhi
UA 933 (FRA-IAD) On The Ground In AMS posted Mon Jun 18 2007 19:10:35 by EHAM
New In-Seat Air Bags On AA Biz Class (Photos) posted Tue Dec 11 2007 07:41:34 by Gh123
Eastern's L-188: Bombed On The BOS Tarmac In '76? posted Sat Jan 19 2008 23:48:55 by Zudnic
Did TWA Ever Use 747 On The LAX-JFK In The 80s posted Mon May 28 2007 20:35:39 by 747400sp
Chinese Standing Up In Planes On The Runway posted Mon Oct 22 2007 18:01:59 by UAL747
New In-Seat Air Bags On AA Biz Class (Photos) posted Tue Dec 11 2007 07:41:34 by Gh123
A380 On The River Visual In DC? posted Mon Mar 26 2007 17:28:41 by RJpieces
Seattle PI: Airbus A350 Muscles In On The 777 posted Tue Jul 31 2007 19:54:27 by Douwd20
Chinese Standing Up In Planes On The Runway posted Mon Oct 22 2007 18:01:59 by UAL747
UA 933 (FRA-IAD) On The Ground In AMS posted Mon Jun 18 2007 19:10:35 by EHAM
Did TWA Ever Use 747 On The LAX-JFK In The 80s posted Mon May 28 2007 20:35:39 by 747400sp
Seattle PI: Airbus A350 Muscles In On The 777 posted Tue Jul 31 2007 19:54:27 by Douwd20
A380 On The River Visual In DC? posted Mon Mar 26 2007 17:28:41 by RJpieces
UA 933 (FRA-IAD) On The Ground In AMS posted Mon Jun 18 2007 19:10:35 by EHAM
Did TWA Ever Use 747 On The LAX-JFK In The 80s posted Mon May 28 2007 20:35:39 by 747400sp
A380 On The River Visual In DC? posted Mon Mar 26 2007 17:28:41 by RJpieces