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QR May Order More A380s  
User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4161 posts, RR: 36
Posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9360 times:



Quote:
Qatar Airways said it may order more of Airbus's A380s, the world's largest passenger plane, as part of a possible expansion programme, adding to the five it has already requested.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/hotStocksNews/idUKDXB00024320080507

Guess we are talking about another single-digit order here.


Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9328 times:

So we could be looking at more A380 orders for QR, EY and EK this year - wonder if any of them will be announced at Farnborough?

User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9286 times:

No surprise given the pissing contest going on in the Gulf States right now. I've been told from people within the company that there are only a few routes that justify the A380 for QR - LHR being one obvious one. Quite why they suddenly feel they need more....

[Edited 2008-05-07 03:28:09]


Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2974 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9215 times:



Quoting Cornish (Reply 2):
I've been told from people within the company that there are only a few routes that justify the A380 for QR - LHR being one obvious one. Quite why they suddenly feel they need more....

Few routes? Actually, I do not see any route justifying the A380. QR is wasting money for prestige issues, rather it sould continue providing a consistent product and maintain their image as an excellent brand. EK has expanded massively and has lost their status of a "unique" airline which they had all through the 90's and even till 2002-2003 when I last found them really good, QR should not fall in the same bracket.

But being very very lenient, I think the A380 maybe good for LHR, maybe IAD with all the ultra luxuries they might claim, One of the Australian routes if they ever start, .... that is it.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9185 times:



Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 1):
So we could be looking at more A380 orders for QR, EY and EK this year - wonder if any of them will be announced at Farnborough?

Safe bet  Smile



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9146 times:



Quoting Ojas (Reply 3):
Few routes? Actually, I do not see any route justifying the A380. QR is wasting money for prestige issues, rather it sould continue providing a consistent product and maintain their image as an excellent brand. EK has expanded massively and has lost their status of a "unique" airline which they had all through the 90's and even till 2002-2003 when I last found them really good, QR should not fall in the same bracket.

Well said. From a passenger and enthusiasts point of view I'd like to think Etihad would focus on quality not quantity (as I think their product is far superior to QR's), but i fear ultimately that won't happen. Long term I'd far rather they focus on quality rather than try to match EK for size and network, as I think EK's product isn't anywhere near as good as it used to be. EY on the other hand is excellent - their economy class is easily the best of any airline I have flown on. Qr was a little disappointing in comparison, although I'd probably rate them good by any other standards.

Quoting Ojas (Reply 3):
But being very very lenient, I think the A380 maybe good for LHR, maybe IAD with all the ultra luxuries they might claim, One of the Australian routes if they ever start, .... that is it.

I was told LHR and CDG only make sense. And I wasn't exactly convinced by CDG !!



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2974 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9058 times:



Quoting Cornish (Reply 5):
I was told LHR and CDG only make sense. And I wasn't exactly convinced by CDG !!

CDG?? Oh if that is so might as well send the A380 to TXL , MAD , KIX or SEZ.  sarcastic . QR should realise the A380's are not meant for them, Even if they do justice to their B77W's, which they are doing , is enough. Let QR be quality and not quantity.

As for EY vs QR goes , IMO EY wins over QR only in the premium class product they offer that is all. In all other departments QR wins for me.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9030 times:



Quoting Ojas (Reply 6):
As for EY vs QR goes , IMO EY wins over QR only in the premium class product they offer that is all. In all other departments QR wins for me.

Mmmm well I'd disagree, but then i should say that EY's product does differ on certain routes. Certainly their A345s and 346s on the LHR route are much nicer than the 330s and 777s they use on some other routes. Also I thought EY's food and entertainment were much better, and they didn't have that awful IFE box under the seat that QR suffers from.

But we digress from the thread in hand !!



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2974 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8992 times:



Quoting Cornish (Reply 7):
But we digress from the thread in hand !!

He he, Let us battle out EY vs QR some other time!  Big grin



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8875 times:



Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 1):
So we could be looking at more A380 orders for QR, EY and EK this year - wonder if any of them will be announced at Farnborough?

Not to forget the Asian (non-Chinese) carrier which has also committed to the A380 last month...
word has it it is ANA.


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8840 times:



Quoting Slz396 (Reply 9):
Not to forget the Asian (non-Chinese) carrier which has also committed to the A380 last month...
word has it it is ANA.

And maybe Groupo Marsans will finally firm their order.......


User currently offlineTaromA380 From Romania, joined Sep 2005, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8777 times:

I think you guys forgot that Airbus is just having *potential* troubles with ramping up A380 production, I hope they won't take this order only to pay penalties later.

User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1821 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8729 times:

I personally QR has potential to justify ordering more A380 especially when the new airport opens. The new airport will be a milestone for the State of Qatar and Qatar Airways and will see a noticeable increase in passenger.

The new airport is slated to open in 2010, and it will offer a totally new experience for travellers. It looks similar to HKG's airport. I think QR has huge growth in its future to justify A380's.



لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8728 times:



Quoting TaromA380 (Reply 11):
I think you guys forgot that Airbus is just having *potential* troubles with ramping up A380 production

The delays don''t appear to have a solid reason yet. It could be the wait is worth waiting for if the aircraft is tweeked for better performance.  Wink


User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8707 times:

Quoting TaromA380 (Reply 11):
I think you guys forgot that Airbus is just having *potential* troubles with ramping up A380 production, I hope they won't take this order only to pay penalties later.

The potential problems are currently "identified" as being linked to the underestimation of the time needed for the hybrid assembly method chosen for wave 2 planes to be perfected. It could slow down the ramp up and cause some delays to wave 2 planes as Airbus fears, but I don't think Airbus is still selling wave 2 planes right now. The earliest serial numbers up for sale will soon start with a 2.. and are thus deep into wave 3 (which is the regular assembly method), so as such they should come with a pretty firm date... on the other hand, what is firm on today's delivery dates of new planes? But Boeing hasn't stopped taking 787 orders either, have they?

[Edited 2008-05-07 04:53:07]

User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2974 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8650 times:



Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 12):
I think QR has huge growth in its future to justify A380's.

I appreciate your optimism, but I do not see anything of that sorts. And see the A380's justify on routes where there is good connecting as well as O & D traffic. Either one of them is missing , and we do not see the use of the A380's.

Taking the case of LHR, if at all there is increase in traffic, won't BA add another daily? And after that will QR need the A380 on that route? And we cannot forget QR now has 4 daily flights to LHR.

There is passenger growth, but when this happens we shall see foreign carriers into Qatar. W.r.t EU/USA traffic it is very evident that there is not enough growth as one would expect. Of all these years only BA has daily flights out of DOH, and LH is the only European carrier offering direct flights to FRA, with the need of a code share. DXB OTOH, have multiple dailies to various destinations even when there are daily and double dailies from foreign carriers as well.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2512 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7155 times:



Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 12):
I personally QR has potential to justify ordering more A380 especially when the new airport opens. The new airport will be a milestone for the State of Qatar and Qatar Airways and will see a noticeable increase in passenger.

The new airport is slated to open in 2010, and it will offer a totally new experience for travellers. It looks similar to HKG's airport. I think QR has huge growth in its future to justify A380's.

I fail to see how a new airport raises passenger demand. I seriously doubt that anyone buys a ticket to a city just to see the airport (OK, some a.netters excepted  Wink ). Now if you mean that it will allow for increased capacity by having more gates, runways, etc, then that is probably true. But just because it can handle more passengers doesn't mean it will handle more.


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13035 posts, RR: 100
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6366 times:
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Quoting Ojas (Reply 6):
QR should realise the A380's are not meant for them, Even if they do justice to their B77W's, which they are doing , is enough. Let QR be quality and not quantity.

I'm a huge A380 fan and yet I agree with that statement. QR doesn't have enough routes that need an A380 to justify the subfleet. I'm more excited about their plans to down-gauge with MRJ's or C-series aircraft.  hyper  Seriously!

Look at QR's balance sheet, they're subsidizing growth. (Note: I'm an EK fan, this isn't a knee jerk reaction. But EK subsidized Dubai. Doha has to help fund QR.) A319CJ's make more sense for them than A380's.

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 12):
I personally QR has potential to justify ordering more A380 especially when the new airport opens. The new airport will be a milestone for the State of Qatar and Qatar Airways and will see a noticeable increase in passenger.

The new airport is slated to open in 2010, and it will offer a totally new experience for travellers. It looks similar to HKG's airport. I think QR has huge growth in its future to justify A380's.

I'm excited about the new airport! The cost of doing a few aircraft bridges to the existing runway will be low, so the long term growth plan is far more secure than HKG.

Could they one day justify A380's?  yes  Today?  no 

Quoting Cornish (Reply 2):
No surprise given the pissing contest going on in the Gulf States right now. I've been told from people within the company that there are only a few routes that justify the A380 for QR - LHR being one obvious one. Quite why they suddenly feel they need more....

And this early reply might be the reason... QR does not have the same route network/model as EK. I'm a HUGE fan of the A380, but this possible order has me  confused . Yes, I realize QR is the world's 2nd fastest growing airline. But growth without profit is not sustainable.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1821 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6366 times:



Quoting ER757 (Reply 16):

I fail to see how a new airport raises passenger demand. I seriously doubt that anyone buys a ticket to a city just to see the airport (OK, some a.netters excepted ). Now if you mean that it will allow for increased capacity by having more gates, runways, etc, then that is probably true. But just because it can handle more passengers doesn't mean it will handle more.

Well, if you take a look at the people who travel via QR, most of them complain about the lack of facilities at the current DOH. The new airport will have no doubt increased publicity, but most importantly superior facilites and maybe even bring in some passengers who will choose to travel via Doha. The experience will keep passengers coming.

Moreover, people here are underestimating the extremely rapid growth of Qatar itself. Qatar by itself is not the richest country in the world in terms of personal income (the figures in the internet are not updated) and in the future Qatar's population will more than double as new cities are being developed.

I am being optimistic simply because I believe the future is bright. QR is already investing in fueling its planes with cheap sources such as LNG.



لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2974 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6163 times:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 17):

I'm a huge A380 fan and yet I agree with that statement. QR doesn't have enough routes that need an A380 to justify the subfleet

LOL, it wasn't an A vs B statement. Just the fact that QR's highest capacity aircraft as of now is the B77W -- 335 seater. So if they have issues in filling them up, A380 is far away.

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 18):
Well, if you take a look at the people who travel via QR, most of them complain about the lack of facilities at the current DOH. The new airport will have no doubt increased publicity, but most importantly superior facilites and maybe even bring in some passengers who will choose to travel via Doha. The experience will keep passengers coming.

The Reason being the size of the airport has hardly improved since the 1980's. And this airport which Doha has does not support such relatively massive operations, that is all. If the airport were DXB's size or even BAH's size, we would not have had passengers complaining.

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 18):
Moreover, people here are underestimating the extremely rapid growth of Qatar itself. Qatar by itself is not the richest country in the world in terms of personal income (the figures in the internet are not updated) and in the future Qatar's population will more than double as new cities are being developed.

I agree with you here, there is growth in Qatar.The reason for this is the current Emir had foreseen a developing Qatar unlike his father. you tell me, till 1997-1998 What was Doha - Qatar ? Did anyone other than the GCC residents know the place? And to get the city to a level recognized among the premiere Arabian cities, took a lot of effort and it has paid. And even though towns like Mesaieed, Dukhan , Al Khor , Ras Laffan , Umm Bab are developing, the growth is not all that significant.

Yes the population of Qatar is increasing and that is evident from the horrendous traffic jams at places like Ramada junction, Mall roundabout etc etc. But the A380 capacity demands much more than what Doha has as of now.

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 18):
I am being optimistic simply because I believe the future is bright. QR is already investing in fueling its planes with cheap sources such as LNG.

So am I , and I love Qatar as much as you do.

[Edited 2008-05-07 12:06:59]


A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2512 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5976 times:



Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 18):
Well, if you take a look at the people who travel via QR, most of them complain about the lack of facilities at the current DOH. The new airport will have no doubt increased publicity, but most importantly superior facilites and maybe even bring in some passengers who will choose to travel via Doha. The experience will keep passengers coming.

OK - fair enough. Thanks for the insightful reply.


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13035 posts, RR: 100
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5789 times:
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Quoting Ojas (Reply 19):
Just the fact that QR's highest capacity aircraft as of now is the B77W -- 335 seater. So if they have issues in filling them up, A380 is far away.

I didn't realize that they were having load factor/yield issues with the 77W!  wideeyed 

Quoting Ojas (Reply 19):
till 1997-1998 What was Doha - Qatar ? Did anyone other than the GCC residents know the place? And to get the city to a level recognized among the premiere Arabian cities, took a lot of effort and it has paid.

 checkmark  Doha has grown tremendously in the last decade. The new airport will be a much needed and vital link in the city's and nation's infrastructure.

Just to be clear, I think QR would profit having A380's in their fleet one day. But that day is too far out to place the order for them now. I'd like to see them expand. (Wait, rooting for a mid-east airline on a.net...)  duck   flamed   Wink

But I think they need to find their niche. Opening up eastern Europe and the region with MRJ's/CRJ's and a few 'premium routes' with A319CJ's seems to be the winning ticket.  bigthumbsup  Of course they should keep expanding with 77W's. But they need a niche to stick out from the competition. Once they do that... profits will follow which makes future growth easier.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2974 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5693 times:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 21):
I didn't realize that they were having load factor/yield issues with the 77W!

Well yes, they are struggling to fill the B77W on the IAD route. Mediocre loads, I would say. But then this is not the right time to have packed USA flights I think. Loads in January on the B77W were real good. The other destination they operate this ac is BOM, and for this destination aircraft is not the criteria, BOM route can be fill any aircraft, and yes it can be a potential A380 destination.

But I'm sure they can fill the B77W to LHR, PEK and some local GCC routes.

[Edited 2008-05-07 13:18:58]

[Edited 2008-05-07 13:19:40]


A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineGlideslope From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1612 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5543 times:



Quoting Cornish (Reply 2):



Quoting Cornish (Reply 2):
No surprise given the pissing contest going on in the Gulf States right now. I've been told from people within the company that there are only a few routes that justify the A380 for QR - LHR being one obvious one. Quite why they suddenly feel they need more....

Nailed. Well done. One hell of a pissing match. I hope they are planning for 30 years down the road when their oil is gone and Russia is calling the shots.  Wink



To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2260 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5279 times:



Quoting ER757 (Reply 16):
I fail to see how a new airport raises passenger demand.

In Europe, some people fly KLM because of Schiphol. At the same time, some people avoid AF and BA because of Charles de Gaulle and Deathrow, even though AF and BA may have better in-flight service than KL.



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
25 Stitch : In tangentially-related news, the Gulf Times is reporting that QR today converted seven 777 options into 77W orders, perhaps as part of a compensation
26 Acheron : Out of curiosity and to avoid opening a new thread, when Singapore Airlines signed the first deal for the A380? And where they the first ones?.
27 814NAS : Russia may well be calling the shots with oil one day. However, Qatar has got the world's third largest gas field with 100+ years worth of reserves.
28 Post contains links ENU : Qatar Airways eyes US$30 billion, 200-aircraft order: http://www.bi-me.com/main.php?id=19996&t=1&c=33&cg=4 Etihad 'to buy 100 planes for $20bn': http:
29 Scouseflyer : They will order eventually but such large orders always seems to have an element of soap opera about them. My prediction: QR - More A380s (about 10?)
30 Kappel : Seeing the huge oil reserves in Canada and off the coast of Brazil, I'm guessing they will be calling the shots in a decade or two. Those two have th
31 EA772LR : Yeah well, with the world screaming about high oil prices, global warming, and Al Gore running his mouth about every natural disaster to be blamed on
32 Stitch : QR just bought five more 77Ws and are said to be considering more...
33 Cornish : Oh I agreem and I'm a big EY fan - reckon their economy product on the 345s and 346s the best of any long haul airline I've flown. But equally I've f
34 Scouseflyer : and the environmental cost of extracting oil from oil sands is catastrophic! - All of the overlying forest has to be destroyed then an enourmous amou
35 Cornish : Within the UAE, its Abu Dhabi that has all the oil, Dubai has far less and is running out, but Abu Dhabi is good for a long time yet. Qatar on the ot
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