LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22052 posts, RR: 51 Posted (5 years 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5921 times:
AA today applied with the DOT for one additional US-Russia frequency allocation effective May 2009 to allow for daily ORD-DME service which will run 6x per week this year.
There currently are 15 vacant US-Russia frequencies allocations available for US carriers. United Airlines applied for 7 of these yesterday for its proposed IAD-DME service commencing October 2007.
OST-2007-0021
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
AirJamaica From Jamaica, joined Aug 2006, 2316 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5862 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): There currently are 15 vacant US-Russia frequencies allocations available for US carriers. United Airlines applied for 7 of these yesterday for its proposed IAD-DME service commencing October 2007.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21242 posts, RR: 19 Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5634 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): AA today applied with the DOT for one additional US-Russia frequency allocation effective May 2009 to allow for daily ORD-DME service which will run 6x per week this year.
Did AA choose to only apply for 6x originally?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
Transpac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3139 posts, RR: 14 Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5590 times:
Any bets on who will apply for the other frequencies??
I would have bet on NW DTW-SVO (on 330 or eventually 787), but with today's announcement of SEA-KIX on A332's they probably won't announce a new route for awhile yet.
LAXdude1023 From Lebanon, joined Sep 2006, 6780 posts, RR: 25 Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4990 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5): I could see AA wanting to go for JFK-DME or MIA-DME
I highly doubt DME is on AA's wishlist to serve from MIA any more than China is. I bet there are other destinations they would serve from MIA, DFW, ORD, and JFK first before we would see MIA-DME.
DFW Fan Boy: Im crude, irreverent, and blunt, but Im not clueless. I offer no apologies.
Sflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1182 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4812 times:
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 7):
I highly doubt DME is on AA's wishlist to serve from MIA any more than China is. I bet there are other destinations they would serve from MIA, DFW, ORD, and JFK first before we would see MIA-DME.
ElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1515 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4758 times:
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 7): I highly doubt DME is on AA's wishlist to serve from MIA any more than China is. I bet there are other destinations they would serve from MIA, DFW, ORD, and JFK first before we would see MIA-DME.
I think we're ignoring a key statement-
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5): depending on various factors.
Good to see American try to go to daily. They ought to look at DFW-DME (oil & energy) as well.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31118 posts, RR: 73 Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 4715 times:
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 7):
I highly doubt DME is on AA's wishlist to serve from MIA any more than China is.
Russians have quickly eclipsed Italians as Miami's largest European community, and only New York City (obviously) has seen more Russian immigration since 1990 than Miami has (centered in Sunny Isles Beach, which is now nicknamed Little Moscow).
It's really not that far fetched to see AA flying MIA-DME in 2012-2015. We are talking a long, long time from now, anything can happen. And if the energy sector keeps booming, DFW-DME doesn't sound far fetched either, as Elmo noted. Both could make great 787 routes.
Ssides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 23 Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4665 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5): However, in the long term future (2011-2012), I could see AA wanting to go for JFK-DME or MIA-DME, depending on various factors.
I really hope they go with DFW-DME, but I won't get too hopeful. On one hand, if SQ's IAH-DME doesn't work, that could be an opening for AA to get traffic on the route; on the other hand, if SQ can't pull it off, AA might not be able to either.
LAXdude1023 From Lebanon, joined Sep 2006, 6780 posts, RR: 25 Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3849 times:
Quoting AJMIA (Reply 14): I also think we will see either a second MIA-LHR or MIA-STN coming soon.
A second MIA-LHR is a long time coming. As soon as they get the slots, Id imagine it would just about be a done deal. I doubt STN however.
Quoting AJMIA (Reply 14): I am still keeping my fingers crossed for MIA-MXP
AA has to realize the potential for MIA-Italy. I was in Miami last week and was absolutely shocked at the amount of Italian I heard being spoken, particularly in Miami Beach. If I were AA, the next European routes I would introduce would be MIA-MXP and DFW-MAD.
Its a lovely city, by the way, even though its the most humid place on the face of the planet!
Quoting AJMIA (Reply 14): Been to Sunny Isles lately??
Im not trying to say that MIA-DME wont happen, only that AA probably has other routes way ahead of it.
DFW Fan Boy: Im crude, irreverent, and blunt, but Im not clueless. I offer no apologies.
AAJFKSJUBKLYN From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 836 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3122 times:
I would think AA would have better luck JFK-DME as a future to complement ORD. Most of the Russians in Miami come from NY........ JFK-MIA is full of Russians (And most in X at that!!-Full Fare Paying Customers too!!), terminating their trips in either city and not continuing on the DME or anywhere else for that matter. I am not randomly saying this...the partner woirks these flights and as early as this am on the 11:45am flight JFK-MIA, he called to say good bye, and I asked if X was full of Russians and he said yes!! As was Y
AJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 708 posts, RR: 16 Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2955 times:
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 15): AA has to realize the potential for MIA-Italy. I was in Miami last week and was absolutely shocked at the amount of Italian I heard being spoken, particularly in Miami Beach. If I were AA, the next European routes I would introduce would be MIA-MXP and DFW-MAD.
I agree. MIA-MXP and DFW-MAD routes would be excellent additions to the route map.
I am seeing tons of Italians to FCO, MXP and various other cities IT via MAD and LHR.
I am also seeing a big increase in the number of AA to *AA(IB) connections over MAD. I assume DFW-MAD would be the same.
The next largest group of Europeans I am seeing are Finn's via LHR and CDG to HEL. If AY does not restart MIA-HEL AA should definately look into it.
Also seeing a lot of Turks to IST via JFK. I know at one point AA looked at MIA-IST. I think they could make that route work as well.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31118 posts, RR: 73 Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2896 times:
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 15): A second MIA-LHR is a long time coming. As soon as they get the slots, Id imagine it would just about be a done deal. I doubt STN however.
Though starting MIA-STN alleviates the problem faced with adding more premium capacity. MIA-LHR is the crown jewel of AA's Heathrow routes, the most profitable one they have, and that's because of the premium cabins. AA faces diluting yields by adding another frequency, but that won't be as big an issue with STN. My guess is that if any other AA station gets STN flights, it would be MIA.
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 15):
AA has to realize the potential for MIA-Italy. I was in Miami last week and was absolutely shocked at the amount of Italian I heard being spoken, particularly in Miami Beach. If I were AA, the next European routes I would introduce would be MIA-MXP and DFW-MAD.
Here's hoping...
Quoting AAJFKSJUBKLYN (Reply 17): Most of the Russians in Miami come from NY........ JFK-MIA is full of Russians (And most in X at that!!-Full Fare Paying Customers too!!),
Problem is that this is a low-yield VFR market. Turkish flew MIA-IST until 9/11 with AA codeshare. If the market matures, I can see TK coming back, but I don't see AA entering the market. The Turkish community, which is coicidently centered in Sunny Isles with the Russian community, is growing quickly in South Florida.
Many Russians come from NY, but as of late they are coming from Russia itself. Russians represent the largest European immigrant group in Miami (as in they actually migrated from Russia; even though some might have come from NY). Italians are the second largest.
Quoting AJMIA (Reply 18): The next largest group of Europeans I am seeing are Finn's via LHR and CDG to HEL. If AY does not restart MIA-HEL AA should definately look into it.
Finnair already plans to resume MIA-HEL next year; 3x weekly A330. They will be at FLL this year in the interim.
Quoting AJMIA (Reply 18):
Also seeing a lot of Turks to IST via JFK. I know at one point AA looked at MIA-IST. I think they could make that route work as well.
TK flew MIA-IST until 9/11 with AA* codeshare. The flights were always packed, but yield was a problem. It's a low-yield VFR market, though as the Turkish community in South Florida continues to grow (it has quickly become on of the largest in the country), maybe the market might mature in the future. Still, I don't see it as a good route for AA*. TK is better suited.
Andaman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2692 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19): The next largest group of Europeans I am seeing are Finn's via LHR and CDG to HEL. If AY does not restart MIA-HEL AA should definately look into it.
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19): Finnair already plans to resume MIA-HEL next year; 3x weekly A330. They will be at FLL this year in the interim.
Yes lot of Finns travel to Florida, the Lake Worth area has a large Finnish community.
So good to see AY back in MIA, I hope that works out next year. AY said they will turn back to the US markets, I hope it starts in MIA.
JFK787NYC From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 808 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2547 times:
Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 6): Does CO still hold their EWR-Moscow authority, or has it been relinquished?
I've heard rumors of US considering PHL-DME.
Highly Doubt US can pull off PHL-DME, Even though the NorthEastern neighborhood of Philadelphia is full of Russian immigrants, I think this route should be pulled through Frankfurt.
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 7): Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
I could see AA wanting to go for JFK-DME or MIA-DME
JFK-Moscow is totally under control I believe another flight might over due it actually. Aeroflot flies nearly empty economy class from October to April with flights starting at $450. Delta gets economy class as people still prefer to fly on a western airline because in Russia people who fly economy are not important. HAHA
I highly doubt DME is on AA's wishlist to serve from MIA any more than China is. I bet there are other destinations they would serve from MIA, DFW, ORD, and JFK first before we would see MIA-DME.
You are 150% wrong, I think AA made a mistake starting DME from ORD instead of MIA. You have no idea how many Russians live in Miami and how many REAL RUSSIANS (MOSCOW RUSSIANS) own condos in Miami there. They are the new South Americans in Miami buying up everything left and right. Miami is a hot spot for Russians right now and all of them have FORTUNESSSSSSSSSSS in Moscow. Big Bucks Route. Business Class would be filled 100% each flight.
[quote=MAH4546,reply=11]
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 7):
I highly doubt DME is on AA's wishlist to serve from MIA any more than China is.
Russians have quickly eclipsed Italians as Miami's largest European community, and only New York City (obviously) has seen more Russian immigration since 1990 than Miami has (centered in Sunny Isles Beach, which is now nicknamed Little Moscow).
It's really not that far fetched to see AA flying MIA-DME in 2012-2015. We are talking a long, long time from now, anything can happen. And if the energy sector keeps booming, DFW-DME doesn't sound far fetched either, as Elmo noted. Both could make great 787 routes.[/
Yep, Sunny Isles Beach is the Brighton Beach of Miami now. Is this route not doable with a 767?
Delta is enjoying ATL-SVO for this one reason. probably around 25% of the flight is going to Miami. Check AirFrance & Lufthansa to see connecting passengers to Miami from Paris & Frankfurt.
AA would have an advantage from Miami they could market the Miami flight in Russia with connecting passengers to South America, Exotic destinations where many Russians are traveling now, Just not enough to fill flights from Russia directly.
Many Russians would enjoy traveling through Miami because then they would be able to spend a couple of days there and then go to South America. Russians find Miami very cheap because of the Dollar.
JFK787NYC From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 808 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2535 times:
Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 9): Good to see American try to go to daily. They ought to look at DFW-DME (oil & energy) as well.
Quoting AAJFKSJUBKLYN (Reply 17): I would think AA would have better luck JFK-DME as a future to complement ORD. Most of the Russians in Miami come from NY........ JFK-MIA is full of Russians (And most in X at that!!-Full Fare Paying Customers too!!), terminating their trips in either city and not continuing on the DME or anywhere else for that matter. I am not randomly saying this...the partner woirks these flights and as early as this am on the 11:45am flight JFK-MIA, he called to say good bye, and I asked if X was full of Russians and he said yes!! As was Y
I would like for you to understand that in the Tri-State Area of New York City you have 1.2 Million immigrants from the former Soviet Union. Most of them are Jewish. 65% are from what now is Ukraine and not Russia.
In the past 8-9 Years (Russian Speaking) New Yorkers started buying up properties in Miami. and now you have both New Yorkers and Russians, Kazakhs, Ukrainians directly from the other side of the world. There are more real Russians in Miami then there are in New York. Brighton Beach is not called Little Russia or Little Moscow it is called Little Odessa.
Sunny Isles Beach is now called Little Moscow because of the high concentration of people coming to Miami not to live but for second, third and fourth homes. 95% of all the Russian businesses in Sunny Isles and all over Miami are owned by Russian Speaking immigrants from New York and not by the Russians from Moscow. The Russians that are in Miami are all Multi-Multi-Multi Millionaires and Billionaires with massive amounts of cash to spend, Plus in Miami they can more freely spend there excess cash without anyone watching what they are doing. Now, Russians from Moscow do not fly through New York to connect to Miami. They fly through Atlanta, Paris & Frankfurt.
The Russian Speaking people you speak about that travel to New York are people that immigrated in the 70s, 80s & 90s. that travel back and fourth between New York and Miami. Go stand one day at the Jetblue terminal and look at all the flights landing from Fort Lauderdale. I know because I am one of them!
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10192 posts, RR: 62 Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2519 times:
JFK787NYC - I hear what you're saying, and understand it. In fact, I've learned a lot.
But I definitely do not agree that MIA-DME would have been a better market for AA, at least for now, for several reasons:
1) O&D - Miami may have a large amount of business traffic and growing personal and commercial ties with Russia, but I doubt that it is, today at least, enough O&D to sustain an entire daily 777 flight, especially considering that Miami's location makes it very poor for connections, which leads me to point #2...
2) Connections - While Miami may have more O&D traffic to Moscow/Russia than Chicago - though it may not, not sure - Chicago offers massive amounts more connections that Miami does because of where it is located. From Moscow, a person can connect in Chicago to dozens of cities across the United States
3) Aircraft - having a flight Miami-Moscow would likely have required more than one 777, whereas Chicago-Moscow will only need a single 777 that will simply be swapped out in Chicago with another aircraft coming from and going to somewhere else (probably Heathrow). AA doesn't have the spare capacity to dedicate more than one plane to a brand new route/market like Moscow at the moment
I agree with MAH4546 - in the long-run, once 787s arrive, AA may well look at doing a MIA-DME nonstop flight, but at the moment, I think Chicago was definitely the way to go - because of the at least decent O&D, massive amount of connections, lack of competition, and aircraft scheduling considerations.
AAJFKSJUBKLYN From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 836 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2478 times:
Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 22): I would like for you to understand that in the Tri-State Area of New York City you have 1.2 Million immigrants from the former Soviet Union. Most of them are Jewish. 65% are from what now is Ukraine and not Russia.
In the past 8-9 Years (Russian Speaking) New Yorkers started buying up properties in Miami. and now you have both New Yorkers and Russians, Kazakhs, Ukrainians directly from the other side of the world. There are more real Russians in Miami then there are in New York. Brighton Beach is not called Little Russia or Little Moscow it is called Little Odessa.
Sunny Isles Beach is now called Little Moscow because of the high concentration of people coming to Miami not to live but for second, third and fourth homes. 95% of all the Russian businesses in Sunny Isles and all over Miami are owned by Russian Speaking immigrants from New York and not by the Russians from Moscow. The Russians that are in Miami are all Multi-Multi-Multi Millionaires and Billionaires with massive amounts of cash to spend, Plus in Miami they can more freely spend there excess cash without anyone watching what they are doing. Now, Russians from Moscow do not fly through New York to connect to Miami. They fly through Atlanta, Paris & Frankfurt.
The Russian Speaking people you speak about that travel to New York are people that immigrated in the 70s, 80s & 90s. that travel back and fourth between New York and Miami. Go stand one day at the Jetblue terminal and look at all the flights landing from Fort Lauderdale. I know because I am one of them!
Excellent explanation, and TRUE snapshot of Russian Immigration. Couldn't agree more.
26 Commavia: AA is even shorter on 767s than 777s. Again, because that market could not today support a daily 767. Not yet. Miami-Russia may be big, but again, I
27 JFK787NYC: Why do you believe American can't gain connecting passengers to South America? Everyone who connects from Russia to South America and the Islands mus
28 AABB777: Originally the route was going to be operated with a 763, however I believe that for financial reasons, the equipment was changed to a 772. AA 763 pi
29 MAH4546: Miami cannot sustain a daily flight to Moscow on pure O&D. They can handle 3-4x weekly easily. However, since most of the traffic is Russian, they are
30 LAXdude1023: The question is do you? The largest amount of millionaires in the world is in North America, not Europe or Russia. There are approximately 38,000 Mil
31 MAH4546: It shouldn't be a priority, but the local market is big enough. And unlike Seattle and San Francisco, the Russian community in South Florida tends to
32 1337Delta764: And actually, Delta's ATL-SVO route was recently upgraded from a 767-300ER to a 767-400ER, and current schedules show a 764ER on the route from now t
33 B752OS: Why wasn't SU able to make SEA-SVO work? Poor yields? Or was the aircraft needed elsewhere? While times are good in Moscow and several large commerci
34 MAH4546: Yields, probably. It might be, but I'm pretty sure Moscow has the largest concentration of millionaires in the world; and only New York City has more
35 Addd: Absolutely not true - a Russian citizen (or, for that matter, citizen of any other country that requires visas to the US) flying from Moscow to Medel
36 JFK787NYC: The largest concentration of multi millionaires in the United States is Palm Beach County Florida not California. AND MOSCOW DOES HAVE THE LARGEST CO
37 LAXdude1023: Nope youre wrong. The top Five Counties (in terms of population of millionaires) in the US are as Follows: 1) Los Angeles County, CA 2) Cook County,
38 MAH4546: No it doesn't. Concentration is based on density, not raw numbers. Given that Palm Beach ranks No. 9 for number of millionaires in the U.S, yet has r
39 Tsaord: I was wondering why I hardly hear about US-Russia flights. Then today AA has a big bill board coming into ORD for the ORD-DME flight.
40 LACA773: Speaking of Los Angeles how does SU's five weekly flights to Moscow perform? Is it high yielding?
41 JFK787NYC: SU Makes a killing on most of the international flights via Business Class, Most flights are booked 100%. But, I have heard that SU's Economy class i
42 AA767400: Great. It is considered rude to write in all caps. It means that you are shouting. I understand that you are a proud Russian, but you are laying it o
43 JFK787NYC: http://www.forbes.com/businessbillio...illies-cz_cv_0430billiecities.html Despite all the squabbling between New York and London for bragging rights,
44 JFK787NYC: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/1009/42/362231.htm Marketing Florida Condos to Moscow's Elite 22 April 2008By Anatoly Medetsky / Staff WriterAt
45 SFO2SVO: It was flown SVO-SEA-SFO on a 777. SU gave up both 777s (too expensive lease for 2 unique birds in the fleet). And they could get 767 full enough wit
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