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Latest SV Incident (belly-landing M90 In Tabook)  
User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1727 posts, RR: 6
Posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 9150 times:

Just yesterday ANOTHER one of SV's incidence in recent days: this time, the landing gear wouldnt open in an MD90 coming in from RUH to Saudi's northern city of Tabook. This time the airplane citcled the airport for 1.5 horrific hours before landing on a soap-filled runway belly first. All 120+ pax safe.

What is up with SV? Personally, I am alarmed and would not be surprised if a fatal incident or accident does occur.

These are all the incidents I counted so far in the recent month:

1. 777 with hole in the wing in JED
2. 747 in Dakkah
3. 747 emergency landing in JED (2 days ago)
4. This incident


لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 9146 times:



Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter):
Just yesterday ANOTHER one of SV's incidence in recent days: this time, the landing gear wouldnt open in an MD90 coming in from RUH to Saudi's northern city of Tabook. This time the airplane citcled the airport for 1.5 horrific hours before landing on a soap-filled runway belly first. All 120+ pax safe.

What is up with SV? Personally, I am alarmed and would not be surprised if a fatal incident or accident does occur.

These are all the incidents I counted so far in the recent month:

1. 777 with hole in the wing in JED
2. 747 in Dakkah
3. 747 emergency landing in JED (2 days ago)
4. This incident

A run of bad luck I think.

SV as Saudi Arabian (I know/knew them better as Saudia) have been very capable in my experience - I dont have any worries about them from a safety point of view, despite these incidents.

Their partner for Hadj flights - Phuket Air on the other hand, well I cannot say the same for them. An aluminium shower/crater in the concrete waiting to happen I suspect strongly.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineMyt332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 71
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9120 times:



Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter):
. 777 with hole in the wing in JED

Technically that was a few months back.



One Life, Live it.
User currently offlineRamzi From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9076 times:

Can you elaborate on the two 747 incidents?


There will come a time when you believe everything is finished - that will be the beginning.
User currently offlineHiJazzey From Saudi Arabia, joined Sep 2005, 855 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8978 times:

I'm probably biased, but I'm with Chris here. Whatever their faults service wise, I am confident of SV's safety standard.
However the same cannot be said of some of the companies they're wet leasing from. The increasing reliance on these wet leases to fill the shortfall is something that concerns me greatly.

Quoting Ramzi (Reply 3):
Can you elaborate on the two 747 incidents?

Dhaka incident: Air Atlanta 747-300 TF-ARS , 25 March 2008
On landing on runway a fire breaks out on no3 engine pylon (suspected leaking fuel line). Fire service extinguish the fire as soon as the plane comes to a standstill and plane is evacuated by slides.

Jeddah incident: Phuket Air 747-200 HS-VAC, 5 May 2008
Left wing gear fails to deploy as bogey is caught by door. Plane lands cleanly on runway but leans to the left as it decelerates down the runway, however it didn't tip completely, engines didn't touch the ground.


User currently offlineOrlando666 From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8921 times:

agreed - saudia's own metal/staff are safe/reliable. wet-leased aircraft are a problem.

User currently offlineRamzi From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8803 times:



Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 4):

Dhaka incident: Air Atlanta 747-300 TF-ARS , 25 March 2008
On landing on runway a fire breaks out on no3 engine pylon (suspected leaking fuel line). Fire service extinguish the fire as soon as the plane comes to a standstill and plane is evacuated by slides.

Jeddah incident: Phuket Air 747-200 HS-VAC, 5 May 2008
Left wing gear fails to deploy as bogey is caught by door. Plane lands cleanly on runway but leans to the left as it decelerates down the runway, however it didn't tip completely, engines didn't touch the ground.

Thanks. I think Saudia ar reliable, but some of their aircraft sch as the MD90s are pretty old...



There will come a time when you believe everything is finished - that will be the beginning.
User currently offlineSpartanmjf From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8718 times:



Quoting Ramzi (Reply 6):

Thanks. I think Saudia ar reliable, but some of their aircraft sch as the MD90s are pretty old...

If I am not mistaken, the first MD90 aircraft in commercial service was with Delta sometime around 1995 - these aircraft are young by any standard and, well, by the standard of MDD aircraft, they are downright new....

[Long live the DC9!]



"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7382 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8703 times:

A pic would be nice,but this is Saudi Arabia we're talking about . I know there was talk about DL maybe taking some of the MD90's ... this one sounds like a write-off. That must be real scarry to be in when that happened.


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineCVG2LGA From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 623 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8632 times:



Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter):
This time the airplane citcled the airport for 1.5 horrific hours before landing on a soap-filled runway belly first.

I'd probably find this more annoying than horrific. I hate circling lol. But I understand the need for time to foam the runway which to be honest would probably be exciting to me.

Tchau

DA-



They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7344 posts, RR: 32
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8594 times:



Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter):
This time the airplane citcled the airport for 1.5 horrific hours



Horrific ????

It's up to the crew to explain to the passengers what is going on and how the crew is handling the incident professionally and as safely as possible.

A gear up landing is not a disaster waiting to happen.

It is a big inconvenience certainly.

Of course if there were 200 people on a plane and 199 of them followed the emergency instructions correctly and thought the crew kept them informed and safe - the media would interview the one who had a different opinion.


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12317 posts, RR: 35
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8496 times:

I'd have no particular problem about flying SV (apart from the fact that I'd be flying to Saudi Arabia, which wouldn't be uppermost on my list of places to visit!); as Orlando666 pointed out, SV itself is fine, but the wet-leases are of concern. Even Air Atlanta wouldn't bother me, but Phuket Air certainly would.

The MD90 incident seems to have been well handled; they had a gear problem; they circled to burn off fuel and the runway was foamed; seems to have been well handled by all accounts. Incidents happen to all carriers and SV is quite a big airline, so they will have the odd incident now and then.


User currently offlineQantas787 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8375 times:

I find it interesting the way so many of you treat a belly landing as Ho-Hum. Me thinks that if you were on the flight it would be anything but. Remember planes DO crash. Situations like this one can start the chain of events that may lead to disaster. Personally I would have been filling my pants.

User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7344 posts, RR: 32
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8298 times:



Quoting Qantas787 (Reply 12):
I find it interesting the way so many of you treat a belly landing as Ho-Hum. Me thinks that if you were on the flight it would be anything but. Remember planes DO crash. Situations like this one can start the chain of events that may lead to disaster. Personally I would have been filling my pants.

I've been through several precautionary landings in commercial jets, including my second every flight in a National Airlines DC-8 with an unsafe gear indication and a foamed runway. The crew was totally professional and had us ready to evacuate quickly if needed. No panic. Concern and prayer - yes, but nothing more.

I've been through two single engine landings in commercial turbo props.

While I was in the US Navy, we lost all navgear and most electronics on a flight from Atsugi to Guam due to lightning strikes, on one mission over the Gulf of Tonkin we lost both starboard engines on the EC-121 and the landing at Danang was tense. A few others - professionalism of the crew is important.

The closest I've come to going down - a Republic Airlines B727 between MEM and SHV. I don't know how bad the thunderstorm was - but a F/A broke her leg when the drink cart hit her - while she was on the ceiling.

But the most important thing is - there are about 10-15 wheels up or no nose gear commercial aircraft landings each year. And about only one severe accident with major injuries or death in those incidents about every four or five years.

Takeoff incidents on the other hand - bad news.

Frankly, you are much more at risk in my opinion on a late night 'normal' landing about anywhere in the world than on a well prepared wheels up landing.

Because there have been two fatals of commercial aircraft in that situation I can remember in the past year or 18 months. Turkey, Brazil - probably more.

But you have to be ready for an emergency evacuation every time you get on an airplane. That includes actually counting the seat rows to two different exits. Wearing shoes in which you can run through pools of burning jet fuel if necessary, only wearing cotton or other natural fiber clothes. Having no bare skin showing on your legs, and a jacket or sweater to cover your arms.

I know three people who lived through crashes in commercial aircraft. One a DC-9 northwest of Atlanta in a hail storm - set down on a roadway. Bad fire - he was two years in rehab.

Another was on a Delta B727 which crashed on takeoff from DFW in the 80's. They were the parents of a high school classmate. His father was fine with some minor 2nd degree burns on his legs where his pants caught fire from the fuel. She had a lot of skin graft surgery because she was wearing a dress and nylons - which melted into her skin. She also had to have major surgery on her feet and never walked normally due to the shoes she had on - low heels - she lost them and was barefoot - got some bad metal puncture injuries.

Each and every one of us take life threatening risks every day. It's a matter of recognizing that you are taking a risk and minimizing the elements you can control. And there is a lot you can control to improve your safety on a commerical aircraft.


User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7344 posts, RR: 32
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 8261 times:

One other thing - sit as close to the window as possible. Because all that heavy cr..p in the overhead bins is going to fall out if the landing is exceptionally rough.

User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 5937 posts, RR: 30
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8174 times:
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Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 13):
But you have to be ready for an emergency evacuation every time you get on an airplane. That includes actually counting the seat rows to two different exits. Wearing shoes in which you can run through pools of burning jet fuel if necessary, only wearing cotton or other natural fiber clothes. Having no bare skin showing on your legs, and a jacket or sweater to cover your arms.

From personal experience on evacuating a full 722 in the runway, I agree to the above. I laugh when I see people boarding the plane wearing shorts. When I went down the slide, I was chaffed on my butt and underside of my legs for a week. People going down those slides in shorts will probably leave their skins smeared all the way down.

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 14):
One other thing - sit as close to the window as possible. Because all that heavy cr..p in the overhead bins is going to fall out if the landing is exceptionally rough.

I dunno about that. It might save you from falling stuff, sure, but I am 6 ft and 220 lbs and on that day I was sitting on the window. When the plane stopped and the order to evacuate was given, it was impossible to get over to the aisle. I had to start kicking, shoving, punching, pushing and elbowing hysterical people that would not let me through. I thought I was going to die staring at the fabulous floral pattern of the seat.

Ever since, I always go for the emergency exit. I don't care if I have to pay more for it.



MGGS
User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2480 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7957 times:



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1):
Their partner for Hadj flights - Phuket Air on the other hand, well I cannot say the same for them. An aluminium shower/crater in the concrete waiting to happen I suspect strongly.

I didn't know Phuket Air was flying again - I was under the impression that they were shut down a couple of years ago on account of the (lack of) safety. Interesting.

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 14):
One other thing - sit as close to the window as possible.

As much as I love perusing the terrain below, I'm the first one to admit that the window seat (particularly in a 3-3 config) is the coffin seat. No way in hell I'd realistically be able to climb over the human mess to get to an exit on time.


777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 5937 posts, RR: 30
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7057 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting 777fan (Reply 16):
No way in hell I'd realistically be able to climb over the human mess to get to an exit on time.

You made my case. Please refer to my post, 15.



MGGS
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31568 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6982 times:

Any reason for the L/G not extending.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offline3MilesToWRO From Poland, joined Mar 2006, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6150 times:



Quoting AR385 (Reply 15):
It might save you from falling stuff, sure, but I am 6 ft and 220 lbs and on that day I was sitting on the window. When the plane stopped and the order to evacuate was given, it was impossible to get over to the aisle. I had to start kicking, shoving, punching, pushing and elbowing hysterical people that would not let me through.

With all respect, seems you acted like a hysterical person here  Smile


User currently offlineAirplaneBoy From United States of America, joined May 2004, 548 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5723 times:



Quoting AR385 (Reply 15):

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 13):
But you have to be ready for an emergency evacuation every time you get on an airplane. That includes actually counting the seat rows to two different exits. Wearing shoes in which you can run through pools of burning jet fuel if necessary, only wearing cotton or other natural fiber clothes. Having no bare skin showing on your legs, and a jacket or sweater to cover your arms.

From personal experience on evacuating a full 722 in the runway, I agree to the above. I laugh when I see people boarding the plane wearing shorts. When I went down the slide, I was chaffed on my butt and underside of my legs for a week. People going down those slides in shorts will probably leave their skins smeared all the way down.

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 14):
One other thing - sit as close to the window as possible. Because all that heavy cr..p in the overhead bins is going to fall out if the landing is exceptionally rough.

I dunno about that. It might save you from falling stuff, sure, but I am 6 ft and 220 lbs and on that day I was sitting on the window. When the plane stopped and the order to evacuate was given, it was impossible to get over to the aisle. I had to start kicking, shoving, punching, pushing and elbowing hysterical people that would not let me through. I thought I was going to die staring at the fabulous floral pattern of the seat.

Ever since, I always go for the emergency exit. I don't care if I have to pay more for it.

I'm glad you all made it out okay. This is why FA's (at least in the US) are required to inform passengers to ensure that all carryon items are securely stowed, leaving all aisles completely clear (tripping hazard). In addition, all seatbacks must be fully upright in order to ensure that the passenger behind the seat has as much room to stand without difficulty (Ever try standing with the seat in front of you reclined? It's quite difficult to do). Safety is paramount and you certainly have great advice for all air travelers - always be prepared for an emergency and be prepared to exit quickly (most carriers worldwide train their FAs to evacuate a full aircraft within 90 seconds - the average estimated time it takes for an aircraft to burn/explode). You never know if that .001% chance of encountering an evacuation will include your flight.

Cheers


User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2053 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5254 times:

Didn't a Saudi MD-90 burn on the tarmac/ramp within the past year?


` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1727 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4900 times:

Here is a pic of the crash landing:





Seems like a hull-loss  Sad



لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
User currently offlineJohnKrist From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1395 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4717 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SUPPORT

Crash landing is a bit over the top, emergency landing is more appropriate...
And possibly a hull loss, but it's hard to tell from that pic really.



5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, Metz 58-AF1
User currently offlineUK_Dispatcher From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2001, 2582 posts, RR: 30
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4444 times:

Does anyone know the reg of the Saudia MD90 involved in this incident?

Quoting 777fan (Reply 16):
I didn't know Phuket Air was flying again - I was under the impression that they were shut down a couple of years ago

Thats what I thought too. I assumed people were mistaking them for Orient Thai Airlines.


25 Post contains links Coronado990 : There was something on YouTube that looked like an APU fire.... www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3jyWygRBRg
26 HiJazzey : Looks like it wasn't a belly landing after all. According to reports, on original approach, the nose landing gear failed to deploy, the plane then cir
27 Post contains links 777way : PIA 747 was involved in a similar incident in 1986 and and flew normally uptil 2000 http://pakistaniaviation.com/photopakdisaster.htm
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