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Escorted 747 Spotted Over Vermont-Any Information?  
User currently offlineFrontiercpt From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 973 posts, RR: 8
Posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 16175 times:

Hey everyone,

On Friday, I saw a four-engined (looked like a 747, but I may be wrong) aircraft flying over Woodstock, Vermont, escorted by four fighters. I didn't get much time to look at it closely, because it disappeared behind a cloud just after I spotted it.

Anyone have any information on this aircraft?

Thanks guys!
Sean

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3592 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 16138 times:
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You sure it wasn't a KC-135?


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User currently offlineFrontiercpt From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 973 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 15943 times:



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 1):

No clue, all I could tell was that it looked something like a 747  boggled 


User currently offlineMastermis From Cayman Islands, joined Apr 2008, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 15906 times:

Would Air Force 1 be escorted in that manner? Maybe the Veep was headed to an "undisclosed location"  Smile President would have been in Texas for Jenna's wedding!

User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 15811 times:

A KC-135 doing a drag without a doubt. I lived up in that area and would see that all the time


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 7140 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 15684 times:

I have seen C-5A's flying over Vermont; I have seen them refueling from KC-135's as well. So it could have been either a C-5A or a KC-135 and not been out of the ordinary (but as the fighters were with it it was probably a KC-135); AF-1 is not a possibility. The People's Republic of Vermont is one of the very few states that President Bush has never visited, and I would expect his visit to be announced by engraved snowballs from hell. I also doubt that AF-1 would be escorted in flight by fighters; they would be in the air but not that close to it. Formation flying is inherently dangerous, and there would be no need to have the fighters close, as they would be tasked to intercept any intruder long before it got near. The only time another plane would get anywhere near AF-1 would be if it had to refuel, and I suspect that would only happen in practice (without the president on board) or in actual full-scale war.


The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineNbgskygod From United States of America, joined May 2004, 834 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 15470 times:

That was a KC-135, I got a pic of it as it went over Enfield, NH. There were 4 F15s, I got a shot of the one just after it joined up with the tanker. I would have gotten a better shot of it, but I couldn't get the lens asembled in time.

Big version: Width: 1024 Height: 768 File size: 320kb



"I use multi-billion dollar military satellite systems to find tupperware in the woods."
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 15174 times:

There's a military IR route running roughly from NW of Rutland to NE of Montpelier; are any of the locales mentioned so far in this thread along that general axis, or viewable from it?

User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8371 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 15164 times:

They definately do alot of refueling up there. Surely a -135 and its compliment of fighters.


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User currently offlineNbgskygod From United States of America, joined May 2004, 834 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 15021 times:



Quoting N766UA (Reply 8):
They definately do alot of refueling up there. Surely a -135 and its compliment of fighters.

They do a lot of refueling up here, but usually its a C5 being dragged across the sky. I have seen a KC-10 being dragged by a KC-135 before though.



"I use multi-billion dollar military satellite systems to find tupperware in the woods."
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4164 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 14976 times:

Here's a map showing the areas where refueling is done:

Looks like Track AR-205 to me

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User currently offlineNbgskygod From United States of America, joined May 2004, 834 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 14313 times:



Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 10):
Looks like Track AR-205 to me

its actually AR-631 that passes over this area.

Big version: Width: 1179 Height: 793 File size: 731kb



"I use multi-billion dollar military satellite systems to find tupperware in the woods."
User currently offlineFrontiercpt From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 973 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 13915 times:

Wow, thanks for all the responses guys! That definitely answers my question, I'm glad someone knew  Silly

User currently offlineAirplanenut From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 12456 times:

Where are those planes based? I know there's a small fleet at Pease AFB in Portsmouth, NH... makes for a nice display if you do a low approach at the airport.


Why yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist...
User currently offlineNbgskygod From United States of America, joined May 2004, 834 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 9755 times:



Quoting Airplanenut (Reply 13):
Where are those planes based?

The F-15s are probibly MaANG birds from Barns, and the KC-135 is either from Pease or Bangor.



"I use multi-billion dollar military satellite systems to find tupperware in the woods."
User currently offlineStickers From South Africa, joined Sep 2007, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7747 times:



Quoting SEPilot (Reply 5):
The only time another plane would get anywhere near AF-1 would be if it had to refuel, and I suspect that would only happen in practice (without the president on board) or in actual full-scale war.

IIRC didn't AF1 get a refuel with the president on board during the 9/11 tradgedy. I seem to recall reports that the president was on board AF1 for a great deal of time after the second tower was hit.


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 7140 posts, RR: 46
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5670 times:



Quoting Stickers (Reply 15):
IIRC didn't AF1 get a refuel with the president on board during the 9/11 tradgedy. I seem to recall reports that the president was on board AF1 for a great deal of time after the second tower was hit.

If that is the case then it would be a lesser level of war than I envisioned; but it would still be a national emergency.
As to the question of where planes are based, Burlington has a number of F-16's. No F-15's, though, AFAIK. Pease has a large number of KC-135's; I was lucky enough to get a ride on one when I was involved in CAP; also got the opportunity to fly the KC-135 simulator. FUN!!!!!!  bigthumbsup   bigthumbsup   bigthumbsup 



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4164 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4894 times:



Quoting Nbgskygod (Reply 14):
The F-15s are probibly MaANG birds from Barns, and the KC-135 is either from Pease or Bangor.

Would we assume that those F-15s pretty much HAVE to belong to Westfield (Barnes?). There are no other F-15s based anywhere else in New England. The only other possibility is F-15s from other bases in the country heading for European deployment and getting more fuel along the way.

The KC-135 is an 'R' (re-engined) model, by the looks of it. And Pease has those.


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4712 times:

Quoting Stickers (Reply 15):
I seem to recall reports that the president was on board AF1 for a great deal of time after the second tower was hit.

How soon we forget...............No... by the time he left Florida the second tower had been hit. They did a hop over to Barksdale AFB, then up to Offutt in Nebraska under the escort of F-16's from the Texas ANG. Stayed there for a short stay, then back to DC. At no time was there a need to in-flight refuel. I do think when he did the trip to Iraq for Thanksgiving that one year the did in-flight refuel.

[Edited 2008-05-12 08:09:15]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5454 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4658 times:



Quoting SEPilot (Reply 16):
Burlington has a number of F-16's

Yeah, Burlington has 15 F-16s AFAIK, and they fly at least some of them almost every weekday. They are currently replacing them with later models.

Burlington also gets a lot of stuff doing approaches and touch and goes. Often KC135s, C130s, and even a C-5 from Westover a couple of weeks back.

Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4646 times:

On 9/11 the President didn't spend very much time in the air in AF1.

They quickly moved him, but at that time, the bird did not have the upgraded comm suites to allow him to keep in contact with the rapidly progressing, rapidly changing situation. They made two landings before returning to DC with much of the time on the ground trying to gather current information. The president's staff was also having a lengthy battle with the Secret Service - who wanted the president to be completely hidden and secure for a couple days. The President and his staff won the battle - arguing the country needed to see the President unafraid and in the open.

Quote:
On board Air Force One following the terrorist attacks on 11 September 2001, President Bush was unable to hold a videoconference in flight, adequately monitor news coverage, or receive necessary data from key people on the ground. The President couldn't even watch CNN. Once Bush arrived at Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska, StratCom's more advanced equipment put the President in better communication. After September 11, money was immediately allocated to upgrade four Presidential planes at a total cost of less than $50 million.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/vc-25.htm

I think, but am not sure, that AF1 was refueled in the air during the President's trip to Baghdad on Thanksgiving 2003.


User currently offlineStickers From South Africa, joined Sep 2007, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2602 times:



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 18):
How soon we forget...............No... by the time he left Florida the second tower had been hit.



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 20):
On 9/11 the President didn't spend very much time in the air in AF1.

I stand corrected. The memory must be getting a little old.  old  Also though, there were so many different reports that came our way, as well as different documentaries, that i must have just remembered one of those that were incorrect. Just as an aside question, ....is AF1 and its few sister ships in the Airforce the only 747 's that are kitted out for air to air refuel, or are there other 747's that have this modification?

Stickers.  Confused


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2553 times:

Quoting Stickers (Reply 21):
Just as an aside question, ....is AF1 and its few sister ships in the Airforce the only 747 's that are kitted out for air to air refuel, or are there other 747's that have this modification?

No... the E4-B can be inflight refueled as well. I think Iran's 747 can be re-fueled as well, but how and by whom I don't know. The best I can tell only the US (VC-25 and E4-B), Japan, Saudi and Iran fly the 747 in their Gov't fleet

[Edited 2008-05-12 11:39:27]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2429 times:

The US has two VC-25A aircraft - the Air Force One B747 - Though the President flies on other aircraft - the AF1 call sign is for the aircraft carrying the president - the B747 aircraft use other call signs when he is not on board.

(There is also at least one B757 and one other aircraft have the updated communications suites).

The US has four E4-B National Airborne Operations Center B747 aircraft - one on alert all the time, however, unlike the old Looking Glass aircraft during the cold war - there is not an E4-B in the air all the time.

The E4-B crews do refueling frequently as part of their mission profile.

You will often see VC-25A and E4-B aircraft functionality combined in movies - such as the mission command center in the AF-1 aircraft in the movie Independence Day.

I don't know if the four B767 EWACS aircraft the JASDF purchased have air to air refueling capability.

Iran supposedly has a couple B747's which can refuel other aircraft - but their status is unknown.

[Edited 2008-05-12 12:22:48]

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