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Upper Deck Boarding - Why Not On 744?  
User currently offlineNG1Fan From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 446 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8249 times:

Now that the A380 has prompted many airports to build dedicated gates for speedy boarding of the upper deck, will be ever see 744s also boarding upstairs?

Methinks that there could be an opportunity for super-elite reconfigured 744 upper decks. And if they boarded via dedicated lounges, their premiumcharacter could be reinforced. Or am I just dreaming?

NG1Fan

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3380 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8235 times:

I beleive that the upstairs door on a 747 is only an emergency exit, not a normal door - but I may be wrong!

User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8193 times:

The emergency exit slide on the upper deck door is actually seperate from the door. When the upperdeck door is opened, the slide stays in place, effectively blocking the door until the slide is deployed. That's why. Plus the doors open up and out, making it difficult to line up a jetway.

User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3860 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8153 times:

It is something I'd love to see, though!

User currently offlineBAW716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2027 posts, RR: 27
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8096 times:



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 2):
The emergency exit slide on the upper deck door is actually seperate from the door. When the upperdeck door is opened, the slide stays in place, effectively blocking the door until the slide is deployed. That's why. Plus the doors open up and out, making it difficult to line up a jetway.

The upper deck doors are not practical for passenger entry/exit except for emergency egress. To redesign the doors to accommodate upper deck boarding is not economically viable, since the number of passengers on the upper deck is relatively few, so the economic benefit gained from improved speed of boarding/deboarding the aircraft just isn't there.

Nice idea though...

baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlineNG1Fan From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8059 times:

Well, now that the 748 is setting the sales charts alight, perhaps this is just the shot in the arms it needs. Redesign one door upstairs and hey-presto....

Seriously though, when last I flew 744 upperdeck (JAL two hours ago), I did not notice the big lump for the slide found on other doors downstairs.

NG1Fan


User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8035 times:



Quoting NG1Fan (Reply 5):
I did not notice the big lump for the slide found on other doors downstairs.

The upper deck doors on the 744 are not the same design as the main deck doors. The slide system is in the bottom of the door attached to the aircraft as an integral part. The main deck doors are actually contained in the door bustle, or as you technically described it "the big lump for the slide".

The slide blocks the bottom part of the door is you were to use the door without activating the slide. There is no way people could climb over the slide container and ingress into the upper deck.


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4387 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7991 times:

But maybe a proposal for the 748i - if...

User currently offlineFlashFlyGuy From Australia, joined Jan 2007, 439 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7907 times:



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 6):
The slide blocks the bottom part of the door is you were to use the door without activating the slide. There is no way people could climb over the slide container and ingress into the upper deck.


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Photo © Norbert Genci



User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3982 posts, RR: 34
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 7777 times:



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 6):
The slide blocks the bottom part of the door is you were to use the door without activating the slide. There is no way people could climb over the slide container and ingress into the upper deck.

Big version: Width: 2048 Height: 1536 File size: 363kb
Thai B744 ARN 13 May 2008


Just drove past this Thai B744 so took a snap.
Steve


User currently offlineNicoEDDF From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 1099 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 7748 times:

Hell, is the Qantas 744 a beauty!!!  Smile

But the Thai...


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22731 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7439 times:

All right; let's ask the obvious next question... is it possible to redesign the door (i.e. put in a 'normal' door) so that boarding up there is possible? Airbus has apparently figured out how to put extra-long slides at standard doors, so there's seemingly nothing stopping Boeing from doing the same.

[Edited 2008-05-13 09:58:26]


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7403 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 11):
is it possible to redesign the door (i.e. put in a 'normal' door) so that boarding up there is possible?

it is very possible. the 748 could incorporate an articulated swing out door on the upper L side. I wondered why Boeing did not incorporate this design in the redesign. It truly would not be that hard, in the grand scheme of things. No structural reworking really, just the same door filling the same hole but articulated in a different way. The slide could be incorporated just as it is in many other doors.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2815 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7235 times:



Quoting NG1Fan (Reply 5):
Well, now that the 748 is setting the sales charts alight, perhaps this is just the shot in the arms it needs. Redesign one door upstairs and hey-presto....

Is that a sarcastic remark or did I miss another sale?


User currently offlineNQYGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7223 times:

I suppose there are only a handful of passengers up there too, thus making a separate air bridge unnecessary.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24891 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7082 times:



Quoting NQYGuy (Reply 14):
I suppose there are only a handful of passengers up there too, thus making a separate air bridge unnecessary.

Most carriers have business class (and a few first class) on the upper deck. The number of passengers (usually 20 to 30) just wouldn't warrant the expense to install a normal passenger door on the upper deck. And airlines are trying to cut costs. They would need additional ground staff if they boarded passengers from two levels. At many airports, it's already common to board 747s through the two forward doors.

It just doesn't sound like the benefits would offset the costs of this proposal.


User currently offlineXtoler From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7030 times:

Redisgning the door is very possible! If anyone has dealt with C5's we have widebody stairs to accomodate the upper pax deck. It's a lot of steps but way more safer than having pax (especially family members flying space-A) from loading from the built in stairs at the front troop door, walking the lenght of the fuselage (with a full 36 463L pallets on board, forget about it) and then the narrow steps to the troop deck, not going to happen unless it's a necessity and it is only troops flying. Don't get me wrong, I've put space-A's on C5's if the stair truck was down and used a conventional stair truck on the rear troop door on the main cargo deck and had loadmasters carefully supervise pax ascending on that narrow stair case to the troop deck. That's not a common practice, especially when you have little kids involved.

Another question though, I used to see some jet ways at ALB that were higher than normal and wondered what that was about, and even the ground pounders couldn't tell me anything but, there may be a heavy coming in, but those jetways seemed awful high. Then again, I'm looking from ERJ level.



EMB145 F/A, F/E, J41 F/A, F/E, because my wife clipped my wings, armchair captain
User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1606 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6931 times:

Because the 747 was designed to use regular Airports not demand changes like Airbus ...

IND was wasted millions for A380 upgrades , Thanks to FedEx and Airbus for spending millions of Indiana taxpayers money that could have been spent on other airport projects...


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6917 times:



Quoting NQYGuy (Reply 14):
I suppose there are only a handful of passengers up there too, thus making a separate air bridge unnecessary.

On the 748, if someone puts Y or Y+ up there like some do with the 744, you can have 50-100 upstairs, potentially. but you'd only want to load it from the upper deck if it was F class for exclusivity.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineSpeedbird0125 From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6902 times:

What about caterings? Don't we load caterings upperdeck directly?

User currently offlineBAStew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6851 times:



Quoting NQYGuy (Reply 14):
I suppose there are only a handful of passengers up there too, thus making a separate air bridge unnecessary.

Totally.

There are only 20 seats up there on BA.

On long range flights one of them is blocked for the flight crew.

On the longest long range flights we do (with 4 flight crew) 2 U/D seats are blocked.

Quoting Speedbird0125 (Reply 19):
What about caterings? Don't we load caterings upperdeck directly?

No. There is an elevator/lift between the main and upper deck. The catering, trolleys etc are sent up and down in there.


User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6789 times:



Quoting Speedbird0125 (Reply 19):
What about caterings? Don't we load caterings upperdeck directly?

Not on the 747.

Only the 380 gets its catering delivered to the top deck.


User currently offlineBok269 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 2105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6788 times:

Are the slides always armed save for while in maintenance (as seen above)? Or are they armed and disarmed with the normal doors?


"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22731 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6747 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
It just doesn't sound like the benefits would offset the costs of this proposal.

We really aren't talking about too many costs... the costs of certifying the thing would likely be higher than the design costs. If a carrier wanted it badly enough, I suspect Boeing would do it.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3204 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6293 times:



Quoting BAStew (Reply 20):
No. There is an elevator/lift between the main and upper deck. The catering, trolleys etc are sent up and down in there.

What about the old 747-200 with its small door just right after the flight deck.... did this have a slide? I got the feeling it was for catering. It looked to small for an emergency exit and I saw pictures of giant scaffolding type stair cases in the old days going up to it.


25 PhilSquares : Yes it had a slide pack. The pack was on a track and could be slid aft to allow the door to be unobstructed. No catering was delivered that way. It w
26 Tiger119 : Looking at the two pictures above, how the heck do you close the upper doors when they are opened up completely? I didn't see any straps hanging down.
27 Viscount724 : Yes those exits have slides and they are emergency exits, nothing to do with catering. Most early 747-100s and some of the first 747-200s only had on
28 UA772IAD : Upper Deck doors have an arm/disarm feature and are disarmed at the end of each flight, along with the main deck doors.
29 N104UA : It does not make economical sense with only up to 30 seats on the upper deck. Plus how the door opens
30 Flyinround731 : Simply not true. During the late 60s, some airports had to have taxiways widened, runways beefed up and lengthened, and new terminals built to accomo
31 AFGMEL : I'm sorry, but that is nonsense. When the 747 was introduced, it caused huge headaches for airports around the world. It was double the size of your
32 SmAlbany : Those jetways way up in the air at ALB are the over-the-wing jetways on the WN gates. When not in use, they are angled way in the air. They are suppo
33 Viscount724 : And even at airports where runways and taxiways could handle the 747, gates and loading bridges usually had to be repositioned to handle the approxim
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