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Delta Pilots Approve New Contract  
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4749 posts, RR: 44
Posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5466 times:

78% of those voting approved the new contract.

http://www.ajc.com/business/content/...s/2008/05/14/deltapilots_0515.html


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNWAJettjockie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5283 times:

There are many inaccuracies in this article.

For one thing, we had an agreement! Mr. Moak, the DELTA MEC Chariman, walked out and went behind our backs and signed this agreement with management. He is scared to death of the what the Seniority list is going to look like so he decided to stab us in the back and protect himself. In his new contract he put the 747-400 pay rates in at the same rate as the 777. He put the 767's in at the same rate as the A330. Imagine that. He also negotiated NO FURLOUGH language. That's great for the Delta pilots, but where does that leave the NWA pilots?

Leaving the NWA pilots out of the process is going to have major implications for this merger. WE (the NWA pilots) have been down this road before. It was extremely detrimental to the health of our Airline the first time around. The difference between then and now is that NWA had tons of cash back then. They had paid $850 million to eliminate their competition in the Twin Cities. They then proceeded to pit all of the labor groups from each Airline against each other. The new Delta doesn't have that luxury of having alot of cash to blow. They need to get this merger off the ground fairly rapidly. If they leave the NWA pilots out of the picture by giving the DL pilots a raise and leaving us on our old concessionary contract there will be some very hard feelings. Look for the pilot group to melt down this summer.

When NWA bought Republic we were a struggling small airline operating primarily narrow bodys. They had Jumbos, flew internationally, and had plenty of cash. They were in the driver's seat and they made that painfully obvious.

Today NWA's balance sheet is stronger than Delta's, and we have big Jets too! We can survive without them. We are not going to settle for being a B Scale labor group, and watch the DL pilots reap all of the benefits of the merger while we stagnate. If they continue down their current path, this merger is in trouble. We the NWA pilots will continue to oppose this merger until such time that we are included in a joint contract.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9411 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5208 times:



Quoting NWAJettjockie (Reply 1):
That's great for the Delta pilots, but where does that leave the NWA pilots?

What eles would he do? Stick up for the NWA pilots so that he can be paid less?

Congrates to Delta and the DALPA



yep.
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10426 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5201 times:

Just curious, but, can DL negotiate with the NW pilots BEFORE it's finalized and goes into effect? Just wondering.


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineNWAJettjockie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5149 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 2):
Quoting NWAJettjockie (Reply 1):
That's great for the Delta pilots, but where does that leave the NWA pilots?



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 2):
What eles would he do? Stick up for the NWA pilots so that he can be paid less?

Congrates to Delta and the DALPA

I sure hope the rest of the Delta pilots don't feel the way you do or this is going to be nasty. If management does in fact want a divided pilot group, then Moak played right into Anderson's plan.

Remember that when we do go for a joint contract, and it will happen eventually, a unified pilot group is stronger than a fractured group. Moak, who let's not forget was almost recalled by his own pilot group, has just made 5000 new enemies. You guys don't realize the long term repercussions of what you just did. You are only thinking about the present. This will come back to haunt you guys, I promise.


User currently offlineNWAJettjockie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5135 times:

Sorry, I posted this twice.

[Edited 2008-05-14 16:07:10]

[Edited 2008-05-14 16:08:05]

User currently offlineNWAJettjockie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5113 times:



Quoting Mayor (Reply 3):
Just curious, but, can DL negotiate with the NW pilots BEFORE it's finalized and goes into effect? Just wondering

Delta management can do whatever they want. Remember that LOA 19, which the Delta pilots just negotiated, won't go into effect until the merger is approved. Between now and then management could offer the same deal to the NWA pilots, or even negotiate a joint contract between both pilot groups.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5113 times:



Quoting NWAJettjockie (Reply 4):

Remember that when we do go for a joint contract, and it will happen eventually, a unified pilot group is stronger than a fractured group. Moak, who let's not forget was almost recalled by his own pilot group, has just made 5000 new enemies. You guys don't realize the long term repercussions of what you just did. You are only thinking about the present. This will come back to haunt you guys, I promise.

While the proposed NW/DL merger doesn't really affect me in anyway, I for one don't want to see this merger go through just so I can keep on seeing these beauties.. bigthumbsup 


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"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9411 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4973 times:



Quoting NWAJettjockie (Reply 4):


I sure hope the rest of the Delta pilots don't feel the way you do or this is going to be nasty. If management does in fact want a divided pilot group, then Moak played right into Anderson's plan.

Dude please!!! Do you really think that NW's union leader wouldn't have done the same thing? Moak is looking out for the people he was picked to do the job by....the DALPA. Most people would have done the same thing.

Quoting NWAJettjockie (Reply 4):
Remember that when we do go for a joint contract, and it will happen eventually, a unified pilot group is stronger than a fractured group. Moak, who let's not forget was almost recalled by his own pilot group, has just made 5000 new enemies. You guys don't realize the long term repercussions of what you just did. You are only thinking about the present. This will come back to haunt you guys, I promise.

Yea Dam you Moak You looked out for your job and for the DALPA. You basterd why didn't you look out for the NW pilots and screw over your own group and piss off what 8,000 pilots? Dam You Moak!!!!!!!  Yeah sure



yep.
User currently offlineNWAJettjockie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4932 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 8):
Yea Dam you Moak You looked out for your job and for the DALPA. You basterd why didn't you look out for the NW pilots and screw over your own group and piss off what 8,000 pilots? Dam You Moak!!!!!!!

Please explain to me how negotiating a joint contract would have screwed over the Delta pilots. The fact of the matter is that the joint agreement both pilot groups had ALREADY agreed to was substantially better than LOA19, and Moak walked out on the deal at the last minute. Why? My understanding is that some of the Delta pilots are also wondering why Moak walked out on a sweeter deal than you ended up with.

It ain't over til the fat lady sings "dude". You guys are real smitten with yourselves over this little stunt. Hope it works out for you.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9411 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4909 times:



Quoting NWAJettjockie (Reply 9):
Please explain to me how negotiating a joint contract would have screwed over the Delta pilots. The fact of the matter is that the joint agreement both pilot groups had ALREADY agreed to was substantially better than LOA19, and Moak walked out on the deal at the last minute. Why? My understanding is that some of the Delta pilots are also wondering why Moak walked out on a sweeter deal than you ended up with.

It ain't over til the fat lady sings "dude". You guys are real smitten with yourselves over this little stunt. Hope it works out for you.

First off im not DALPA.
Second I thought (sorry if wrong has been happening alot these days) but did that deal not mean the top 3,000 spots went to the exNW pilots?

I agree that they should work for a joint agreement BUT if the deal was so great why did almost 80% of the DALPA vote yes for LOA19?



yep.
User currently offlineLongbowPilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 577 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4871 times:
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I would like to point out that DL is doing their best to accomodate the employees of the airline they are absorbing. I may be a little ignorant of the whole process behind unions, but if someone is appointed to represent people they must "MUST" think of those folks. It would have been the same COA if NWA was the acquiring airline.

Finally, a hostile take over could have occurred here and no attempts to "WORK" with people could have been made

BUT

DL did what they have done for years. They attempt to work with the employees and value them. GOT IT, this is a union issue, but DL certainly did try and work with the Pilots prior to the merger. Thank your lucky stars DL is acknowledging seniority of your pilots and paying them fair wages for a Date of Hire in 2008 with less then 1 year of seniority.

-Attack


User currently offlineNWAJettjockie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4854 times:

[quote=DeltaL1011man,reply=10]First off im not DALPA.
Second I thought (sorry if wrong has been happening alot these days) but did that deal not mean the top 3,000 spots went to the exNW pilots? [quote/]

Well that explains alot. You don't have any clue about what you are talking about. LOL. And no the top 3,000 spots were not reserved for the NWA pilots. That's absurd.


User currently offlineNWAJettjockie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4854 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 10):
I agree that they should work for a joint agreement BUT if the deal was so great why did almost 80% of the DALPA vote yes for LOA19?

Because after Moak walked out on the joint agreement ( and no one can explain why he did ) LOA19 was the only agreement he was willing to put before his membership. It does include raises, so I assume that is why the pilots are voting for it. But excluding your future brother pilots makes no sense. It will make it more difficult to stand strong against management in future negotiations. Maybe that is what management wants.


User currently offlineNWAJettjockie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4841 times:



Quoting LongbowPilot (Reply 11):
I would like to point out that DL is doing their best to accomodate the employees of the airline they are absorbing. I may be a little ignorant of the whole process behind unions, but if someone is appointed to represent people they must "MUST" think of those folks. It would have been the same COA if NWA was the acquiring airline.

Finally, a hostile take over could have occurred here and no attempts to "WORK" with people could have been made

BUT

DL did what they have done for years. They attempt to work with the employees and value them. GOT IT, this is a union issue, but DL certainly did try and work with the Pilots prior to the merger. Thank your lucky stars DL is acknowledging seniority of your pilots and paying them fair wages for a Date of Hire in 2008 with less then 1 year of seniority.

-Attack

What???? That is comical.


User currently offlineNycbjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4829 times:

I'm sorry but is it even time to negotiate a joint contract that takes into account NW pilots? I have to believe that when it comes time they will do everything they can to integrate as fairly as possible..

I hope both groups can come to a mutual agreement (however unlikely that is), lets see what happens..

congrats to delta for keeping your groups happy, first the raise to non union folks, and now your pilots.. keep it up!

cheers


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9411 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4830 times:



Quoting NWAJettjockie (Reply 12):
Well that explains alot. You don't have any clue about what you are talking about. LOL. And no the top 3,000 spots were not reserved for the NWA pilots. That's absurd.

LOL.......sounds like I just need to stay away from a.net for a while...........been a really off week

Quoting NWAJettjockie (Reply 13):
Because after Moak walked out on the joint agreement ( and no one can explain why he did ) LOA19 was the only agreement he was willing to put before his membership. It does include raises, so I assume that is why the pilots are voting for it. But excluding your future brother pilots makes no sense. It will make it more difficult to stand strong against management in future negotiations. Maybe that is what management wants.

I would hope that A pilot would be smarter than to vote for it just because it has raises



yep.
User currently offlineLongbowPilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 577 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4794 times:
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Quoting NWAJettjockie (Reply 14):
What???? That is comical.

Glad you liked it, but honestly if you feel you can "dumb" it down then please do so, no need to be disrespectful.

But

It is clear you are a disgruntled individual because the air carrier you chose to fly with was bought out and it is not working in your favor. If you are angry, that is ok and it is your right, but honestly a hostile take over could have led to some pay cuts of a phenominal insult sized proportion and you would really not have a leg to stand on. It seems like there is some fairness in DL's contract.

correct me if I'm wrong.


User currently offlineGsosbee From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4722 times:

The NW pilots had their chance. A pay raise, a seat at the board table and a piece of the action - not good enough to compromise on a seniority plan. Have to question that decision.

I believe it is the NW pilots that need to wake up and understand they are not playing from a position of strength.


User currently offlineN501US From United States of America, joined May 2005, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4692 times:
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Quoting NWAJettjockie (Reply 1):
When NWA bought Republic we were a struggling small airline operating primarily narrow bodys. They had Jumbos, flew internationally, and had plenty of cash. They were in the driver's seat and they made that painfully obvious.

Republic never had anything other than narrowbodies .....biggest a/c was the 757. IIRC, Republic had as many or more DC9s than NWA had planes (or close to it).

Plain and simple, the merger was like trying to merge the Republican and Democratic parties together base upon the management styles of both airlines. (please do not turn this into a political deal as I am just using a metaphor!).

The comment about NWA being in the driver's seat is absolutely correct as Republic was indeed struggling and nearing the brink of bankruptcy. Granted, the merger was almost 22 years ago but I have never understood why the Republic pilots have thought they should have gone straight from the outhouse to the penthouse after the merger.

As for the current merger between DL and NW: The management (Boards) gave both pilot unions plenty of time and latitude to play in the sandbox and come up with a plan suitable to all of them. Somehow, that opportunity was wasted.

Of course this is just my opinion, I could be wrong.



Fools and thieves are well disguised in the temple and the marketplace.....
User currently offlineDTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4567 times:

Oh God here we go again. Please don't let this be a NWA/RC merger thing all over again. It was down right ugly at DTW durning this time. And I sure as h.....don't want to see that happen now in this day and time. Because if it does. Both airlines will not survive. DL I like you, but, you better get your self together if you expect the NWA employee to get into this merger. If not it will be hell.... Sorry for the word.

Chuck


User currently offlineIntl767400 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 19 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4568 times:



Quoting NWAJettjockie (Reply 14):

The NW MEC has done a disservice to its members and the anger should be directed at them! They maintained that seniority is a greater issue than pay and other contractual improvments. They had in their grasp a HUGE improvement to the current contract but the MEC of NW walked away in essence by holding all pilots at both airlines hostage to a ridiculous seniority list integration.The Delta pilots said that if the NW MEC will not work out a reasonable seniority list for a greatly enhanced contract, then the Delta pilots must ensure enhancments on their own.I would urge you to contact your ALPA rep to insist on fair pay rates and a FAIR ( not advantaged) seniority list. NW pilots can have the same or better when they tell their MEC to get on with it and be resonable. If not, the NW pilots will have to live under the terms their MEC has placed on them. I hope your MEC will not sell you down the river over this "seniority" issue.


User currently offlineNwab787techops From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4540 times:

NWAJettjockie your talking to someone that can't buy a beer yet. And DeltaL1011man your talking to a Captain, a guy thats been in this business before you where born, also they didn't produced the L1011 after you born as well.


Username: deltaL1011man
Real Name: Withheld
E-mail: Contact
Gender: Male
Age: 16-20
Country: United States

[Edited 2008-05-14 19:22:42]

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4499 times:



Quoting Nwab787techops (Reply 22):
NWAJettjockie your talking to someone that can't buy a beer yet. And DeltaL1011man your talking to a Captain, a guy thats been in this business before you where born, also they didn't produced the L1011 after you born as well.

That's ok, he's trying and learning..... Smile

However, given how much he posts, does he even go to school?  scratchchin 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4446 times:

Seriously, why are we bitching? This merger was just announced. Does DALPA even have any control over NW pilots yet? I'm positive that when the NW pilots come under DL rule, they will be treated with the same respect and fairness as the current DL employees.


The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
25 Stratosphere : Sucks to be stabbed in the back doesn't it..I still have the nwa knife in my back. He may not be able to buy a beer 787 but he can sure have one of m
26 Rwy04LGA : It's not us who have a problem. We're already 'together' quite well. All this negativity seems to be in a one-way direction, against Delta. It seems
27 Jacobin777 : While I don't agree with a lot of the stuff he says here however why pick on him? I'm excited to see someone so young take a keen interest in aviatio
28 Stratosphere : He is not referring to young Delta L1011man Jacobin he is referring to me and my comment because I have exposed nwab787techops for who he is and he d
29 WingnutMN : As an ALPA member for neither airline, I see some very rough waters ahead for the union. I think the greed of the upper teir will in the end destroy t
30 Jacobin777 : Oh..lol..sorry about that... That being said, I do see deltaL1011man picked on a bit because of his age..
31 Apodino : This has the potential of making the US/HP pilot negotiations look like a marriage prep class.
32 WorldTraveler : I hate to hear and read the rancor that is cropping up between DL and NW pilots. I also am not sure there is much value in having others besides DL an
33 Qantas744ER : Or he just comes over here to Germany, starts drinking real beer and that from the great legal age of 16 Leo
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