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Flights From London To Detroit?  
User currently offlineSpeedbird203 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 295 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3656 times:

Hello, i know as of now Northwest are serving Detroit from LHR and LGW, I have a couple of questions.

1. I know NW31/32 from LGW-DTW has been down grounded to a 757, Will NW completely stop service to DTW from Gatwick? I have a slight feeling they may?


2. How well is NW doing at LHR on the DTW route, anybody know?

3. Do you think British Airways will serve Detroit again? I mean with NW serving DTW it seems doubtful but when i used to fly BA203/202 the loads were always full, Maybe they could add it as a connection to one of there current flights?


Metro Tower 135.0
13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLHboyatDTW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3602 times:

1. There's always demand for LGW, so I think it will stay for the time being.

Quoting Speedbird203 (Thread starter):
Do you think British Airways will serve Detroit again?

Maybe, maybe not. I wouldn't hold my breath over it as for all I know they may pull off what LH has done with PHX, leave the city and years later say they will return, but never really get around to doing such.

Quoting Speedbird203 (Thread starter):
when i used to fly BA203/202 the loads were always full

Just because the plane was full does not mean its profitable. It may be full in the cabin, but cargo can be empty and vice versa. Also I think we can come to agreement that selling tickets for dirt cheap would not be able to make the flight profitable. As for having history repeat itself by making it a tag-on, I doubt there's much reason behind it now as Open Skies makes such things unnecessary.

I do know BA 202/203 was a marginal performer, but I firmly believe that adding the IAH tag on and messing up the timings were what really killed the route. I think it would have performed far better had there been some advertising and had more rational timings (i.e. 5pm).


User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5192 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3563 times:



Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 1):
but I firmly believe that adding the IAH tag on and messing up the timings were what really killed the route. I think it would have performed far better had there been some advertising and had more rational timings (i.e. 5pm).

I have to disagree with that one...if the DTW flight was sustainable on its own then BA would have kept it. DTW-LON may just be a soft route. The IAH tag on was an attempt to bolster that flight. Once LHR access was gained...
IAH is going to double daily 744s for the fall.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineDTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3493 times:

As for me. I thing both LHR and LGW will be served from DTW for some time to come. As far as BA ever coming back into DTW. I don't see that happening. Remember if the merger goes thru we may and I say MAY see DL add a flight or two to London. Maybe moving their CVG flights to DTW. Something is going on here in DTW with the Skyteam. Because in the last few months we have seen a huge increase in Skyteam members starting to fly into DTW. In fact in March of 2009 I believe China Southern (Skyteam member) will start Non-stop service to DTW. AeroMexico is now flying into and out of DTW and they are a Skyteam member. Air France is a Skyteam member and they are now flying out of DTW to CDG. And now KLM is flying their metal into DTW inplace of some of NWA metal. So I'm thinking they are starting to position themselves here in DTW. I can't see DL after the merger in keeping CVG and MEM as a major hub. Maybe a mini hub, but nothing like it is now. The McNamar teminal in DTW has more room to expand if they need to and I see that happening. Once the new L C Smith termainal is done this summer or fall. LH will be into that area to be with the other Star Carriers like UA, US, AC.

But, as far as BA coming back into DTW. I just don't see that happening. They where allways the most expensive airline to fly on when you look at NWA. That is just my thought. Take it for what it is worth. But, my gut is telling me the Skyteam is going to get VERY big here in DTW soon after the merger...


Chuck


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23021 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3455 times:



Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 2):
The IAH tag on was an attempt to bolster that flight.

The IAH tag doesn't show anything other than that ORD was a better-performing station than DTW (a point on which I don't think there's any question). They had to tag the IAH flight on to something, and if DTW was the worst-performing LHR-USA station, DTW was the right place. I'm not sure that necessarily means that DTW was unprofitable on its own, though.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2191 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3414 times:



Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 2):
Just because the plane was full does not mean its profitable. It may be full in the cabin, but cargo can be empty and vice versa. Also I think we can come to agreement that selling tickets for dirt cheap would not be able to make the flight profitable. As for having history repeat itself by making it a tag-on, I doubt there's much reason behind it now as Open Skies makes such things unnecessary.

That is certainly a valid point. What people seem to forget these days is that loads do not always correlate to profitability within the airline industry, and the uncertainty behind this fact is growing along with the rising prices of fuel. I personally was stunned that BA decided to leave Detroit which not only is a huge market with many local companies but also has successfully sustained air service from other foreign flag carriers (LH, RJ, AF, KL, ect). However, the guys in charge of planning at BA must have felt otherwise. In light of that, I think BA will be scaling back its growth and redeploying the aircraft on more profitable routes (perhaps one that has more accessibility to OneWorld connections).

At least scoring the DTW-LHR route on NW is a plus.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2226 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3236 times:



Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 1):
I do know BA 202/203 was a marginal performer, but I firmly believe that adding the IAH tag on and messing up the timings were what really killed the route.

USA Today's article about BA's suspension of DTW said the "final straw" was Pfizer's decision to close the ex-Parke Davis pharmaceutical research laboratory near Ann Arbor. BA carried much of Pfizer's "front cabin" traffic from DTW to Europe, and the loss of this traffic made the difference between profit and loss for the flight.

I would be very surprised if BA returns to DTW any time soon, for three reasons: (1) BA has no feed on the DTW end of the flight. Most of the passengers originating in DTW will take NW to earn World Perks miles, and people who want to earn miles on BA can route LHR-ORD-DTW on BA / AA. (2) LHR is slot limited, so there is a definite opportunity cost to assigning an LHR slot to DTW versus another market where BA has less competition and the traffic is stronger, and (3) the population of the Detroit area will continue to decrease, as the area's major employers downsize and residents leave the area to find work. As Southeast Michigan's population declines, the traffic base to support the flight shrinks.

I grew up in the Detroit area, and was fortunate enough to take BA twice, in 1983 on a 747, DTW-IAD-LHR, and in 1989 on an L-1011, DTW-YMX-LHR. It makes me very sad to see BA gone - in my mind, BA's withdrawal from DTW is every bit as emblematic of the economic decline of the area as the abandoned GM factories in Pontiac, and the boarded up houses in inner city Detroit, are.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7591 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3220 times:



Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 2):
I have to disagree with that one...if the DTW flight was sustainable on its own then BA would have kept it. DTW-LON may just be a soft route. The IAH tag on was an attempt to bolster that flight. Once LHR access was gained...
IAH is going to double daily 744s for the fall.

The IAH tag-on wasn't the primary reason that caused the flight the fail but it the timing of the flight was a definete draw-back and did turn some amount of passengers away from flying BA on DTW-LHR.

The flight left DTW after 11pm local time, and arrived late morning/noon in LHR causing business passengers to "waste" a day in transit, particularly if they were connecting beyond LHR. The return LHR-DTW was timed decently though. The other problem with the 11pm departure is how that showed up in search engines compared to other flights.

In reality it was the stronghold of NW/KLM, the local economy, and the ending of Bermuda II that killed off BA's flight. The timing was a secondary reason, but even with optimal departure times BA would have pulled in when they did.

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 3):
And now KLM is flying their metal into DTW inplace of some of NWA metal. So I'm thinking they are starting to position themselves here in DTW

NW and KLM act as one across the Atlantic. It doesn't matter if it is KLM or NW, they are not competiting with each other. The reason that KLM is back in DTW is because NW has reallocated A330's to open up new routes like MSP-CDG and PDX-AMS. Same reason there will be a NW 744 on DTW-AMS this summer. The two working together allows them to maximize the usage of their aircraft.


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6474 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3108 times:



Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 6):
1) BA has no feed on the DTW end of the flight.

NW has no feed at the LHR end of the flight while BA has significant feed. (more than NW at the DTW end). The feed at different ends of the flights are a wash. Plus like all flights between the UK and the US the largers percentage of passengers will be UK originating which takes out the World Perks advantage.


User currently offlineSt530 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3051 times:



Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 2):
IAH is going to double daily 744s for the fall.

Is this confirmed? Source? Very exciting if true!


User currently offlineSt530 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3042 times:



Quoting St530 (Reply 9):
Is this confirmed? Source? Very exciting if true!

Woops sorry, just saw the whole thread on this from April 22, my bad. Great news.


User currently offlineSpeedBird203 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 295 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2862 times:

Thanks for all the information guys, Well maybe BA will see some good to return to DTW someday.


Metro Tower 135.0
User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5192 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2829 times:



Quoting St530 (Reply 9):
Is this confirmed? Source? Very exciting if true!

Yep they are on the schedules.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 2723 times:



Quoting St530 (Reply 9):
Is this confirmed? Source? Very exciting if true!

Yes, the fall flights on the BA show a 744 as the equiment. Oddly, however, I have a booking for LHR -- IAH in Dec, and the online booking lists a 744, but still has the 777 on the on line seat map.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
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