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UA And HA To Codeshare  
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4257 posts, RR: 6
Posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4789 times:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080515/aqth022.html?.v=52

This ought to quash the GO/UA rumors and speculation for a while. And I think this is more bad news for GO.

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4777 times:



Quoting Apodino (Thread starter):
And I think this is more bad news for GO.

Agreed. UA did not take long to sort this issue out, not that they could afford to with the lift they have to the Islands.


User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2672 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4765 times:



Quoting Apodino (Thread starter):
And I think this is more bad news for GO.

How sad.  sarcastic 

Good news for travelers from the mainland, though. Now it's easy to transfer from UA again.


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4697 times:

The real question is now who doesn't HA codeshare with in Hawaii?

User currently offlineBP1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 593 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4654 times:

From the press release, the Agreement appears to become live at the end of the Summer season. I was wondering how long this would take between these two carriers because of the long UA relationship with AQ and the competition HA has with UA on certain HNL - Mainland USA flights.

Is it time to GO! yet?

Cheers,
BP1

Quoting Apodino (Thread starter):
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080515/aqth022.html?.v=52




"First To Fly The A-380" / 26 October 2007 SYD-SIN Inaugural
User currently offlineAloha73G From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2362 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4534 times:

Yay! I've been waiting for this one.

Makes alot of sense for both UA and HA.

HA now codeshares with, well, everyone.

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineDaCubbyBearBar From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 76 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4361 times:

I wonder if this was the great news for HA that HALFA was referring to that he couldn't tell us about. This really solidifies HA on the interisland as now there is no way that UA backs go! or tries interisland themselves.


Go Cubs Go Hey Chicago whaddya say the Cubs are gonna win today
User currently offlineHALFA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1354 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4356 times:

Ok gang, do you remember last month on the other HA threads when I said there was more good news coming from HA but that I couldn't tell you until it was announced? Well it's now been announced!  Smile
I said the news wouldn't make JO happy and I'm sure he's not. HA now has inter-island code share agreements with NW, CO, AA, DL, and now UA. (And KE and VS)
Expect more news soon about additional aircraft to the HA fleet, and as mentioned earlier, the 767 that we are looking at is indeed from AC, and if acquired, will be initially used to fly the inter-island flights to OGG. Our maintenance team is currently inspecting the aircraft and will make a decision soon.
And even more good news, the new MNL flight loads are really picking up for the summer!

Aloha,
HALFA



Don't mess with Texas....We just may do that!
User currently offlineHALFA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1354 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4336 times:



Quoting DaCubbyBearBar (Reply 6):
I wonder if this was the great news for HA that HALFA was referring to that he couldn't tell us about. This really solidifies HA on the inter-island as now there is no way that UA backs go! or tries inter-island themselves.

You posted this while I was typing my previous reply! Yes, you are correct! This is the good news I was referring to, and yes, it pretty much wraps up all the mainland feed to our inter-island operations. This is GREAT news for HA!

Aloha,
HALFA



Don't mess with Texas....We just may do that!
User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2496 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4252 times:



Quoting BP1 (Reply 4):
because of the long UA relationship with AQ and the competition HA has with UA on certain HNL - Mainland USA flights.

A win-win. Perhaps UA will be able to free up some birds by dropping some dailies between the West Coast and LIH or by funneling everything into HNL (and then on HA).

Quoting HALFA (Reply 7):
Well it's now been announced!

Great news - Mrs. 777fan and I always opted for HA while living in the Islands even though it meant not earning UA MP through AQ. Congrats.


777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4478 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4142 times:

This is excellent news, and could mean the beginning of the end for GO. I fail to see how GO's business plan continues to make sense as the economy worsens, Mesa's financial state declines, the division continues to bleed money, load factors are small, and now, pretty much all of their options for a mainland codeshare partner have dried up.

I'm not one to like to see airlines go, and I'm sure that it will be sad for Mesa's employees, but the way JO conducted this operation was shady from the start and killing off Aloha is the lone reason I'd be happy to see Go disappear.


Question about the codeshares....when a codeshare seat is sold, don't the earnings from that sale go directly to the partner? Or is the revenue split between the airlines? For example, if a pax books an HNL-LIH segment on HA through UA, does the revenue go entirely to UA for that seat?

With HA codesharing with everyone, I wonder if that actually in the long run reduces the overall profitability of their interisland flights by having to give some of that revenue to other carriers. I also wonder what it means for HA's long term growth to the mainland as they are now codesharing with everyone that provides mainland-hawaii lift, and yet competing with them all as well. Interesting.  scratchchin 


User currently offlineThreeIfByAir From United States of America, joined exactly 7 years ago today! , 674 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3902 times:



Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 10):
Question about the codeshares....when a codeshare seat is sold, don't the earnings from that sale go directly to the partner? Or is the revenue split between the airlines? For example, if a pax books an HNL-LIH segment on HA through UA, does the revenue go entirely to UA for that seat?

Why would HA give seats to UA for free?  Confused

Quoting 777fan (Reply 9):
A win-win. Perhaps UA will be able to free up some birds by dropping some dailies between the West Coast and LIH or by funneling everything into HNL (and then on HA).

Those niche routes are probably better yielding than HNL-mainland because there is less competition, and they also allow many passengers to avoid double-connecting. For example, UA can route passengers FAT-SFO-LIH, instead of FAT-SFO-HNL-LIH. UA's network has dozens of other examples like that.


User currently offlineAloha73G From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2362 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3883 times:



Quoting ThreeIfByAir (Reply 11):
Why would HA give seats to UA for free?  

They wouldn't and they don't.

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 10):
Question about the codeshares....when a codeshare seat is sold, don't the earnings from that sale go directly to the partner? Or is the revenue split between the airlines? For example, if a pax books an HNL-LIH segment on HA through UA, does the revenue go entirely to UA for that seat?

HA gets all the money. In the codesharing relationship the airline operating the flight gets the revenue from the fare collected. In this case, that is HA receiving $$$$ from tickets sold by AA, DL, CO, NW and now UA (plus a few others). The benefit for the legacies in this arrangement is that they can offer routes that they are incapable of serving and also allow their frequent flyers to earn/redeem miles on HA interisland flights.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 9):
A win-win. Perhaps UA will be able to free up some birds by dropping some dailies between the West Coast and LIH or by funneling everything into HNL (and then on HA).

I don't see why they would. They could have while they codeshared with AQ, but didn't. I don't see why/how a partnership with HA would make this any more (or less) appealing.

Remember that neighbor island non-stops generally have higher yields than HNL flights.

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3655 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3846 times:
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Quoting AirCop (Reply 3):
The real question is now who doesn't HA codeshare with in Hawaii?

For U.S. carriers, only AS.

Quoting HALFA (Reply 7):
HA now has inter-island code share agreements with NW, CO, AA, DL, and now UA. (And KE and VS)

Don't forget about US.


User currently offlineUA2162 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 495 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3787 times:



Quoting HALFA (Reply 7):
Ok gang, do you remember last month on the other HA threads when I said there was more good news coming from HA but that I couldn't tell you until it was announced?

I remember as the anticipation has been building each day.

Looking at my username and knowing that I am a former AQ employee should tell you just how happy I am!


User currently onlinePohakuloa From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 415 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3785 times:



Quoting HALFA (Reply 7):
Expect more news soon about additional aircraft to the HA fleet, and as mentioned earlier, the 767 that we are looking at is indeed from AC, and if acquired, will be initially used to fly the inter-island flights to OGG. Our maintenance team is currently inspecting the aircraft and will make a decision soon.
And even more good news, the new MNL flight loads are really picking up for the summer!

so if that bit of info is true (from other thread) lay flat seats even if only temporarily from HNL-OGG????
sounds yummy!!!  stirthepot 

great news for HA all around with MNL filling up as well! looking forward to additional fleet news from you...as always!



Fast cars and 'Jet A' - such a sweet smell!
User currently offlinePictues From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3747 times:

i would think that the one AC is offering is one of the non XMed B767's probably one of the 6 doored B767-300's

User currently offlineHALFA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1354 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3722 times:



Quoting Pohakuloa (Reply 15):
so if that bit of info is true (from other thread) lay flat seats even if only temporarily from HNL-OGG????
sounds yummy!!!



Quoting Pictues (Reply 16):
i would think that the one AC is offering is one of the non XMed B767's probably one of the 6 doored B767-300's

According to our CEO in a conference call to all employees last week, he joked that should we take delivery of the 767 from AC, we would be the only airline operating inter-island flights with lie-flat F class seats! I'm not familiar with the AC fleet, but Mr. Dunkerley (HA's CEO) said the aircraft in question has lie-flat seats up front.

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 13):
Quoting HALFA (Reply 7):
HA now has inter-island code share agreements with NW, CO, AA, DL, and now UA. (And KE and VS)

Don't forget about US.

For some reason, I thought that we dropped our code-share with US?!?!

Aloha,
HALFA



Don't mess with Texas....We just may do that!
User currently onlinePohakuloa From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 415 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3670 times:



Quoting HALFA (Reply 17):
According to our CEO in a conference call to all employees last week, he joked that should we take delivery of the 767 from AC, we would be the only airline operating inter-island flights with lie-flat F class seats! I'm not familiar with the AC fleet, but Mr. Dunkerley (HA's CEO) said the aircraft in question has lie-flat seats up front.

*sniff sniff* Do I smell a hybrid livery?? (so many questions, so not the right thread, im sure!)



Fast cars and 'Jet A' - such a sweet smell!
User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4478 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3522 times:



Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 12):
HA gets all the money. In the codesharing relationship the airline operating the flight gets the revenue from the fare collected. In this case, that is HA receiving $$$$ from tickets sold by AA, DL, CO, NW and now UA (plus a few others). The benefit for the legacies in this arrangement is that they can offer routes that they are incapable of serving and also allow their frequent flyers to earn/redeem miles on HA interisland flights.

Thanks for the info. It's odd but despite being interested in aviation my whole life I never asked the question about how codeshares work until now!  Smile


User currently offlineImapilotaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3063 times:



Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 19):
Thanks for the info. It's odd but despite being interested in aviation my whole life I never asked the question about how codeshares work until now!

If you want the in-depth answer:

The two airlines agree to a "pro-rate" agreement which will use one of a few different methodologies for calculating the ratio for how they split the revenue. For these scenarios we will use a flight from SFO-HNL-LIH on UA & HA for $300 one-way.

High-Y: This is the ratio that takes the high Y fare in the market SFO-LIH and the high Y fare for LIH-HNL and gives it a ratio. ie, if SFO-LIH is $900 and LIH-HNL is $100, the amount that HA would get is 1/9 of the $300 (minus taxes & fees) or roughly $33.33

Square Root of the Miles: This takes the square root of the miles for each leg. SFO-LIH is 2399, so the sq root is 48.98. LIH-HNL is 102 miles so 10.099. The ratio would be 0.206. So for the $300 fare, you would have HA receive $61.80.

By far the most common technique is High-Y. I have actually not run into a square root of the miles, but they are used. As you can see, although codeshares are great at getting access to more passengers, the "little guy" almost always is selling the ticket well below the local fare. This is the precise reason why the local fares for a flight like SPI-ORD on UA is $800 OW for a walkup, since they really only get $50-$100 for a connect passenger, and the airline is trying to make up for that.

I saw one fare in March on US from PHX-LIH-HNL for $129 one-way, with the connection onto HA for LIH-HNL. HA literally would have likely received about $15 for that leg. Codeshares in leisure markets can be quite troublesome at times. Luckily for the Hawaiian market, the loss of ATA & AQ have raised those fares dramatically.


As for payments, the airline that makes the reservation receives the cash (or credit card transaction). So if UA booked the above flight from SFO-HNL-LIH onto HA, UA would get to keep that entire amount of cash in house, and it will then be cleared through the ACH (Airline Clearing House) AFTER the person actually flies the route.


User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 936 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2970 times:

Very interesting Imapilotaz. So what if you were flying PHX-SEA on united through SFO. Then your SFO-SEA leg gets canceled and they put you on Alaska. Does this use the High-Y approach too for United paying alaska for taking you? How does this work? I've always wondered that.

User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2615 times:
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Quoting Apodino (Thread starter):
This ought to quash the GO/UA rumors and speculation for a while. And I think this is more bad news for GO.



Quoting Imapilotaz (Reply 20):
Luckily for the Hawaiian market, the loss of ATA & AQ have raised those fares dramatically.

Thank you for the summary.

There is a 3rd option. e.g., QF/BA. The airline books a cost of the seat and the revenue portion of the ticket strips out the costs of the two airlines (selling and flying) and then the remaining profit is split upon pre-agreed lines.

Any which way, its more revenue for HA and that is a good thing.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineBP1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 593 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2601 times:

Is it possible to get an update of all the airlines codeshares for HA, including international (JAL, MAL, QF)?

Thanks,
BP1



"First To Fly The A-380" / 26 October 2007 SYD-SIN Inaugural
User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2496 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2580 times:



Quoting HALFA (Reply 17):
According to our CEO in a conference call to all employees last week, he joked that should we take delivery of the 767 from AC, we would be the only airline operating inter-island flights with lie-flat F class seats!

They ought to keep the lie-flats and then use that bird(s) on the "long-haul" HNL-SYD and HNL-MNL routes! Hehe, as it stands, by the time you reclined the lie-flat on a HNL-OGG, you'd be asked to put it upright for landing!

777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
25 Gigneil : No. They buy you the inventory and put you in the seat, at whatever their agreed discount is. Sometimes that can mean the Y fare for the seat, if I'm
26 United1 : It all depends what the interline agreement is between the carriers, at one point years ago I remember hearing that DL was messing with FL at ATL and
27 Hawaiian717 : It was reduced significantly after US/HP started their own flights to Hawaii. America West flights stopped being eligible for earning HawaiianMiles,
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