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Ryanair's Newest Base Kerry (KIR)  
User currently offline757lgw From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 152 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5278 times:

ok so it´s not been announced on the website yet , although they have announced the new ryanair kerry - dublin route , but along with the opening of this route kerry will become another new ryanair base . Probably only going to have the one aircraft. So what do we think guys , its a bit surprising for a base!

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4635 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5236 times:

I read in today's paper that FR were bitching about the fact that the KIR-DUB route is subsidised by the Irish Government a couple of months ago.

Anyway, they've shut up now and are taking the subsidy from the Government and running the route themselves.

Add it to the pile of reasons why I think Ryanair are a heap of crap... at least stick to your arguments. I loathe it when things like this happen.



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5001 times:

As a matter of fact Ryanair's bid was the lowest to operate the Public Service Obligation route saving the Irish tax payer a reported €1.3 million compared to the current Aer Arran subsidy. Overall fares will be lower and capacity will increase.

User currently offlineEmbajador3 From Spain, joined Aug 2006, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4809 times:

Considering how small the terminal building is, i wonder where would they set up the crewroom, offices, etc??


Flying Together
User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4776 times:

You know what's coming next? EK will start KIR-DXB double daily!  Wow!

Not sure one aircraft constitutes a base. Maybe 5 aircraft or thereabouts. I've always thought Kerry airport a bit difficult to get to.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4748 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 4):
Not sure one aircraft constitutes a base.

The aircraft is based there. Crew arer based there. Just because its small doesn't mean it's not a base



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineMA346 From Montserrat, joined Sep 2007, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4747 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 4):

An SQ all J?


User currently offlineAl2637 From Ireland, joined Oct 2006, 407 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4714 times:



Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 1):
Add it to the pile of reasons why I think Ryanair are a heap of crap... at least stick to your arguments. I loathe it when things like this happen.

Ryanair complained at the level of the subsidy being offered to RE. Newspapers are today reporting that FR have offered to run the route for the goverment at a rate of 41% below those given to RE last time! This is in the context of RE now getting a 9% increase in the routes that it managed to hold onto (Galway, Sligo, Donegal). If only FR would bid for the other routes, and take these jokers in RE out of it. RE are screwing the tax payer.


User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4635 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4701 times:



Quoting Al2637 (Reply 7):
Ryanair complained at the level of the subsidy being offered to RE. Newspapers are today reporting that FR have offered to run the route for the goverment at a rate of 41% below those given to RE last time! This is in the context of RE now getting a 9% increase in the routes that it managed to hold onto (Galway, Sligo, Donegal). If only FR would bid for the other routes, and take these jokers in RE out of it. RE are screwing the tax payer.

That wasn't how I interpreted the article I read - obviously I didn't read it properly enough.

Thanks for the clarification!



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4682 times:



Quoting Al2637 (Reply 7):
If only FR would bid for the other routes, and take these jokers in RE out of it.

Might need a smaller aircraft!!!



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3920 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4683 times:

While FR may be getting less per passenger they will be carrying twice as many. So ultimately the FR deal will cost the Irish tax payer more than the RE one would have done. AFAIK the 41% figure is the subsidy, which is paid per passenger.

In the long term though, if FR can get passenger numbers up to 400k/year the routes probably would no qualify anymore, so in the long term the tax payer will probably be better off. In the short ERM t will be FR who will be doing the screwing of the governmet. If the can "rape" boeing you can be sure they have pulled a fast one on the idiots in the Dep. Transport.

Brian.

Brian.



Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4635 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4665 times:

Explain why KIR is subsidised and DUB-SNN-DUB is not?

FR pulled out of the route and once again we're all stuck with getting trains for 3 hours instead of a quick half an hour flight.

(Sure you can fly EI for a huge amount of money and no chance of a same day return!)



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19217 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4648 times:

You earlier said:

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 1):
I read in today's paper that FR were bitching about the fact that the KIR-DUB route is subsidised by the Irish Government a couple of months ago.

Anyway, they've shut up now and are taking the subsidy from the Government and running the route themselves.

I think Ryanair are a heap of crap

You later said:

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 11):
FR pulled out of the route and once again we're all stuck with getting trains for 3 hours instead of a quick half an hour flight.



Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 11):
Sure you can fly EI for a huge amount of money

I love the double standards.  Big grin



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineAl2637 From Ireland, joined Oct 2006, 407 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4598 times:

I don't believe the PSO routes are per passenger. Ryanair will be paid €5.25M for running the route between 2008 and 2011.. RE got paid €9M for the previous period.

I know the newspapers typically work it out on a per passenger basis, but AFAIK they are not actually being paid per passenger.


User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4635 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4532 times:



Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 12):
I love the double standards.

Damn you for actually reading my mean scribblings!

See, I take after Ryanair too - when it benefits me, I'm all for it...

I'm hanging my head in shame at having revealed this major character flaw of mine  Smile



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineLUPOR1D From Ireland, joined Feb 2008, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4527 times:



Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 11):
Explain why KIR is subsidised and DUB-SNN-DUB is not?

FR pulled out of the route and once again we're all stuck with getting trains for 3 hours instead of a quick half an hour flight.

(Sure you can fly EI for a huge amount of money and no chance of a same day return!)

Exactly......Although I think even with PSO SNN-DUB (and indeed KIR-DUB) is still too thin a route for a B738



Always lurking.
User currently offlineSam1987 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 946 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4445 times:



Quoting 757lgw (Thread starter):
although they have announced the new ryanair kerry - dublin route , but along with the opening of this route kerry will become another new ryanair base

I have just looked at the FR timetables for KIR to DUB - the aircraft is certainly based at KIR, leaving at 0630 each morning and arriving back at 2210 each evening.

As well as the three rotations to DUB, there are two sizeable slots in the timetable - one which would fit a destination around 2 hours away, whilst the other would fit a destination around 75 minutes away.

Perhaps they will switch the existing HHN and LTN routes to be operated by the KIR based aircraft? THese would fit in perfectly to the timetable, but neither of the routes are daily, so if this were to happen a couple of other routes would need to be found. Maybe LGW on the days that don't have a LTN service? Any other thoughts?



Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
User currently offlineLUPOR1D From Ireland, joined Feb 2008, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4398 times:

Apparently its been announced internally within Ryanair that Kerry will have one aircraft based.


Always lurking.
User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4302 times:



Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 10):
While FR may be getting less per passenger they will be carrying twice as many. So ultimately the FR deal will cost the Irish tax payer more than the RE one would have done

The route has had far too few seats, especially the morning departures, for a few years now allowing RE to charge premium fares as well as getting the subsidy leaving many travellers reliant on the 4 hour train trip - still without the new trains promised for last September during last year's election.

For people having to travel to Dublin for cancer treatment the availability of enough cheap seats on a 35 minute ride can only be a bonus.

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 10):
In the long term though, if FR can get passenger numbers up to 400k/year the routes probably would no qualify anymore, so in the long term the tax payer will probably be better off. In the short ERM t will be FR who will be doing the screwing of the governmet. If the can "rape" boeing you can be sure they have pulled a fast one on the idiots in the Dep. Transport.

Obviously you either don't understand or don't agree with the ethos of PSO services. Thankfully for an area with appalling transport links to the rest of the country this is one of the few things the government get right. Of course your beloved Aer Lingus hadn't the brains or the interest in the South West to "pull a fast one" when they operated the route.


User currently offlineAmricanShamrok From Ireland, joined May 2008, 2890 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4300 times:

I read somewhere KIR and GWY would be able to survive without PSO subsidies so I'll have to agree with O'Leary in saying it's a waste of money.


Shannon-Chicago
User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4260 times:

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 19):
I read somewhere KIR and GWY would be able to survive without PSO subsidies

I read somewhere there are green men living on the moon. Seven years ago Kerry was dying as an airport. Aer Lingus were reluctantly providing a poor service to Dublin and a weekly service to Dusseldorf. The PSO has helped build traffic on the Dublin route even with RE's regular failures to run to time, provide capacity or sometimes provide a flight at all.

Without the PSO no-one would have provided a service and Kerry people and visitors would have faced a 4.5 hour drive or a 4 hour train ride as the only alternative. Visitors nwould have been similarly disadvantaged and the airport would have closed.

All credit to FR for building the Hahn and Stansted routes out of nothing to have significant load factors year round - and for adding Luton. Could they do the same with Dublin without the PSO now there is a level of demand? If anyone could FR would be the airline to do it. They are making much at present of a €12.99 fare inc taxes so they are either going to use the PSO to keep fares very low or they will make good profits from increased loads and then perhaps O'Leary, in a stroke of marketing "genius", will cast himself as the tax payers' friend and pay back all or part of the PSO funds as a gesture! Think of the headlines 

[Edited 2008-05-17 09:37:00]

[Edited 2008-05-17 09:38:01]

User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3920 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4168 times:



Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 11):
(Sure you can fly EI for a huge amount of money and no chance of a same day return!)

I think the PSO is only offered on routes where there is no current service. I suppose the argument could be made that the EI DUB-SNN is a positioning service with seats sold anyway, but if, and only if EI drops SNN-DUB will it become eligible for a PSO subsidy. Id say the chances are pretty good, both FR and RE have tried and failed on this route.

Quoting Philb (Reply 18):
Obviously you either don't understand or don't agree with the ethos of PSO services.

Personally I would prefer if the subsidy were to be made in upgrading the train network, but that is not going to happen, so this is the best alternative. I was under the impression that the subsidy was paid per PAX, which is not the case seemingly. If FR think they can make money on it, why not?

Quoting Philb (Reply 18):
Of course your beloved Aer Lingus hadn't the brains or the interest in the South West to "pull a fast one" when they operated the route.

You could say that about most national carriers, TBH. BA has 'abandoned' MAN, AF has little presence outside Paris other than domestic shuttles, IB has left BCN to clickair. The list goes on. Regional airports suit the cost, yeild and operational profiles of LCC's better than major hubs. This has been the traditional principle at FR.

Quoting Philb (Reply 20):
They are making much at present of a €12.99 fare inc taxes so they are either going to use the PSO to keep fares very low or they will make good profits from increased loads and then perhaps O'Leary, in a stroke of marketing "genius", will cast himself as the tax payers' friend and pay back all or part of the PSO funds as a gesture! Think of the headlines 

I'd say a bit of both. Cant see them giving the money back though. Its one thing for MOL to make a song and dance about paying his own personal taxes, but the PSO cash belongs to the shareholders, I dont think MOL or the board have the authority to give this money to anyone, and with so little fuel hedged it is probably not a good idea to be giving away a few million for a stunt.

Brian.



Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlineVald From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4122 times:



Quoting 757lgw (Thread starter):
its a bit surprising for a base!

not really, its one of the nicest places in ireland, full of americans in the summer that bus it down
from dublin. (the rose of tralee) is a huge event there every year.
will all that fill a b737-800 thats going to based there. ??????????.


User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4095 times:



Quoting Vald (Reply 22):
will all that fill a b737-800 thats going to based there. ??????????.

They said that about the Hahn service. 95% load factors in the summer, 70%+ in the winter.


User currently offlineAl2637 From Ireland, joined Oct 2006, 407 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4059 times:

I guess the question will be if FR will operate new routes in the 2 windows in the timetable after the DUB route, or will they just swtich the existing routes to the KIR base.

25 Philb : Well Hahn will have to stay as a Hahn aircraft. The Stansted would depend on the timing - which varies around the year and doubles up in summer. I vot
26 AmricanShamrok : Because Aer Arann are ending KIR-DUB how will this effect their MAN & LRT flights? Will they pull them now they don't have the DUB aircraft to serve t
27 Babybus : I thought they use the aircraft to do KIR-Hahn. I often spot it flying over my house in London.
28 Philb : The MAN and LRT flights have nothing to do with the DUB rotations which are DUB-KIR quick turnarounds apart from the last flight of the day from DUB
29 Sam1987 : Exactly my question. Anyone else have any thoughts? Why will it have to stay as a HHN based aircraft? Operating the route with the KIR based aircraft
30 PhilB : Because the aircraft are used on a daily operational pattern and flights longer than an hour each way are more difficult to remove or add to an aircr
31 BestWestern : In winter and early summer FR aircraft sit in Shannon during the afternoon - cheaper to park than to fly where nobody wants to go.
32 Post contains links Teahan : There was some debate about what Ryanair would do with the 'based' aircraft for the rest of the day. Turns out they are using it for the HHN flight an
33 Sam1987 : Any news on what will happen to the newly created holes in the timetable for the HHN and STN based aircraft that used to operate the KIR flights? Ext
34 Post contains links Teahan : Presumably yes. Can't think of any country walks but exit the airport, take a left and walk along the road for 15 minutes (there's a footpath) and yo
35 Philb : Interesting that FR have reduced the total ground handling and flight time allocated for this route. When I spoke to management at KIR last week no de
36 Teahan : PhilB: From when it was first loaded in the system, KIR-DUB was clearly timetabled to slot in a morning HHN rotation and a late afternoon service to s
37 Philb : Was it? Not according to the senior management at the airport, when I spoke with them last week, who were awaiting a meeting with Ryanair to discuss
38 BrianDromey : I dont think there was any settlement with ORK. At least none that FR made a song and dance about. Clearly the flight did better at ORK. I dont know
39 Clydenairways : But Germans are famous for being up earlier than everone else, when most of these charters used to Operate into Shannon you would find them arriving
40 Philb : I've been trying to find the reference which stated that FR had come to a new agreement with Cork but it seems to have disappeared into the vast void
41 BrianDromey : Highly unlikely! The 0630 is a pretty early start alright, especially given that KIR is between Tralee and Killarney, so that early start is not goin
42 Philb : I did when I retired and, having had experience of dealing with the German tourism market, the older travellers are very much in tune with later risi
43 Sam1987 : Thanks for the info. What time do pubs open in Ireland? We'll be arriving at KIR on the STN flight at 0815 and departing on the HHN flight at 1205 so
44 Philb : The pub at Farranfore probably won't be open before around 11.00 but you might get a Guinness in the airport bar after 10.00. Can't say for sure as I
45 Humberside : It doesn't
46 Philb : I see they've dropped it again. When? They have operated a couple of days a week in the last couple of years. Trying to keep up with FR's service chan
47 Philb : I've done some digging. The Kerry-Hahn service started on April 1 2003 and was a transfer of the Shannon schedule although SNN got a weekly (Saturday?
48 Sam1987 : Is the airport bar landside or airside? Is FR one of the operators? They could do PIK or BHX (especially now the latter is a base too).
49 Philb : The bar is landside and the operators are Ryanair and Aer Arann
50 AmricanShamrok : If this really is a new "base" why hasn't Ryanair pulled a huge PR stunt giving away free flights from Kerry etc. like they do for all their other bas
51 Philb : Because they are basing an aircraft there under the terms of the PSO which is meant to be for services which can't support themselves. The Hahn and o
52 Post contains links Sam1987 : That is interesting. You'd think that perhaps the dot on the FR route map might change to a red square like their other bases though?! http://www.rya
53 Post contains links Teahan : Irish Independant article on Kerry Airport: http://www.independent.ie/national-n...ter-18pc-profit-boost-1388135.html "Our indications are that Aer Ar
54 Philb : When I spoke to Basil Sheerin two weeks ago he saw no reason for Aer Arann to remove the Manchester and L'Orient services as they are in no way "atta
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