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Allegiant Air Flights From PAE?  
User currently offlineUnited777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1657 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3648 times:

Allegiant Air is interested in flying from PAE to LAS and maybe more cities.

I don't know about fly Allegiant Air but if AS/QX ever started flights from PAE, i'm all for it!! Living in Bothell/Mill Creek driving down to SEA can be rough going down I-405.

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/200...Las.Vegas.flights.from.Paine.Field

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3609 times:

Excellent! Would be very cool to have commercial service at Paine Field. I just wonder how much it would canabalize from their Bellingham service. Also, go figure about that quote from Reardon in the article. How does he figure commercial service would be such a bad thing? They've already got big jets going in and out of there on a very regular basis.


Good goes around!
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5065 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3606 times:

The County execs already oppose the idea. What a bunch of dummies. Why not?

I always wondered about Olympia. Is the runway long enough to handle an MD-80?



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3602 times:



Quoting F9Animal (Reply 2):
The County execs already oppose the idea. What a bunch of dummies. Why not?

Just for the sake of opposing something. County execs in that part of Washington just love to oppose things.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5065 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3572 times:



Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 3):
Just for the sake of opposing something. County execs in that part of Washington just love to oppose things.

I am starting to notice that. They will throw millions into a monorail system that never got built, but oppose an airline? Imagine what kind of traffic that could bring into the economy? Not only that, but the extra money to enhance PAE. I would love to see G4 try for Olympia. I personally think Olympia is a hidden treasure box, just waiting. Huge retirement community out there, and so close to Tacoma and even Seattle.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2744 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3567 times:

There has been efforts to start commercial services at PAE for darn near 20 years, if not longer. The problem is there is a somewhat large and VERY vocal community group opposed to it, as they believe it will ruin the current standard of living in the area, and (IMO what is much more important to them) property values. It has really been AS/QX that have looked at/pushed for commercial services repeatedly to that airport. IIRC, SW and 5X have also stated an interest in serving PAE.

Just a short while back, the Snohomish County Council paid a professional consultant to study the effects of opening the airport to commercial operations. But even going that far brought heated opposition from said 'community group.' Unfortunately, until such time as we have a County Commisioner and Council that can see beyond their own re-election and recognize the benefits of such services, commercial ops at PAE won't happen.

Regards,

Hamlet69  profile 



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently onlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5440 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3551 times:

This is just the "test-the-waters" letter stage; if this were to go any further, then we'd start to hear from the NIMBYs! (And of course they are usually the ones behind the negativity of the elected officials in the first place...)

It seems to me we hear about proposals for scheduled service at Paine every few years, nothing ever gets beyond the "what-if" stages, and we wait around for the next attempt... (Boeing Field is pretty much in the same situation; WN was the last attempt there and, well, we now "wait 'til next time".)

Considering all the money that has been spent at SEA/TAC, and all that IS being spent (light-rail going in), 3rd runway, can anyone really think any kind of serious attempt at a second commercial airport for the Puget Sound would get much support? And even an Allegiant attempt at sneaking into PAE would, as mentioned, be stepping on BLI's toes -- and that would be G4's own toes as they are a major tenant at Bellingham! I wonder if they will suggest BFI next?

I am very surprised to see G4 essentially trying to compete with themselves... If true though, it ain't gonna happen.

bb


User currently offlineNational757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3539 times:



Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 5):
Unfortunately, until such time as we have a County Commisioner and Council that can see beyond their own re-election and recognize the benefits of such services, commercial ops at PAE won't happen.

If/When airfares jump and it becomes much more expensive to fly from SeaTac, do you think the county commission will be more inclined to let a low cost carrier like Allegiant fly out of PAE?

From: http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/stories/2008/05/12/daily35.html

Quote:

...County officials are adamantly against the plan.

"I do not support bringing commercial air service to Paine Field," said County Executive Aaron Reardon, in a statement. His thoughts were mirrored by County Councilman Brian Sullivan, who said in the same statement, "I've opposed commercial air service at Paine Field for 25 years."

Opposing commercial air service that will benefit the community for 25 years..that's something to be proud of.  Yeah sure County Commissioners are supposed to act in the best interest of their constituents and having access to low fares by allowing commercial air service out of PAE would probably be in the best interest of the greater community. Unfortunately it appears county commissioners and a vocal minority are opposed to new service at all costs. What a shame.



Formula 1 Grand Prix Trips: YUL '08, MEL '09, BCN '10, SIN '11, and LGW '12
User currently offlineNational757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3538 times:



Quoting SANFan (Reply 6):
I am very surprised to see G4 essentially trying to compete with themselves...

Two different markets. Allegiant targets British Columbia and Canadian Passengers with service to Bellingham while service to PAE would likely attract passengers from Everett and the greater Seattle area.



Formula 1 Grand Prix Trips: YUL '08, MEL '09, BCN '10, SIN '11, and LGW '12
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5590 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3525 times:

I remember some years back San Juan Airlines (I think) did PAE-PDX. I couldn't tell you what type of aircraft it was, but it was probably a 9-seater type.

Since then, while it would make sense geographically to open PAE to commercial service, it has been opposed by the powers-that-be as well as the local residents.

It would certainly be a great location. If someone could serve PAE and BFI (ahem WN ahem), then you'd have a very big powerhouse to deal with for local customers.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3524 times:



Quoting F9Animal (Reply 4):
I would love to see G4 try for Olympia. I personally think Olympia is a hidden treasure box, just waiting. Huge retirement community out there, and so close to Tacoma and even Seattle.

I agree. OLM could make an excellent market for Allegiant or other carriers. Their largest runway is 5500 feet, which is definitely somewhat limiting to the airport's options, though.

Quoting National757 (Reply 7):
Opposing commercial air service that will benefit the community for 25 years..that's something to be proud of.

Totally agreed. With an airport like PAE, there is already a lot of large jet traffic. I don't honestly see how a few daily flights will even be noticed by the people in the area. The way I see it (and the way my relatives who live nearby there see it), the benefits far outweigh any claimed negative to the idea.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5065 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3451 times:



Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 10):
I agree. OLM could make an excellent market for Allegiant or other carriers. Their largest runway is 5500 feet, which is definitely somewhat limiting to the airport's options, though.

There is plenty of room to extend the runway. I am sure it would be a welcomed addition to the economy in Olympia. I am sure the thought has crossed a few minds.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineNational757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3434 times:

Excellent Video Report from NBC affiliate KING 5 in Seattle about the Paine Field controversy.
http://www.king5.com/business/storie..._air_paine_field_TP.1094b3f88.html



Formula 1 Grand Prix Trips: YUL '08, MEL '09, BCN '10, SIN '11, and LGW '12
User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3421 times:



Quoting F9Animal (Reply 11):
There is plenty of room to extend the runway. I am sure it would be a welcomed addition to the economy in Olympia. I am sure the thought has crossed a few minds.

Oh, certainly. It would be one of those investments that would pay for itself time and time again.



Good goes around!
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5590 posts, RR: 29
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3333 times:



Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 10):
With an airport like PAE, there is already a lot of large jet traffic. I don't honestly see how a few daily flights will even be noticed by the people in the area.

The problem is, it wouldn't be a few daily flights. I can't imagine Allegiant starting up PAE without AS/QX throwing quite a few flights in as well. And of course, WN would be an interesting option. Instead of 2 or 3 flights, it'd be 20 or 30. Not necessarily overnight, but in the not-too-distant-future. I think it would fantastic, but I doubt the residents would.

As an aside, I found the following on-line concerning the aforementioned San Juan Airlines service from Paine Field:

Q. Did SOC work to undermine San Juan Airlines operations at Paine Field?

A. No; SOC was formed several years after San Juan Airlines discontinued operation.


Q. Why did San Juan Airlines fail at Paine Field?

A. Apparently, from a combination of factors, including undercapitalization and the use of small (15 passenger) unpressurized airplanes. But the major reason was lack of paying passengers


and:

The 1979 Mediated Role Determination provided for air taxi and commuter operations at Paine
Field. San Juan Airlines established service between Paine Field and Portland in 1987. This commuter airline experienced financial problems in 1988 and terminated all operations.



-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineG4resagent From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 300 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3278 times:



Quoting National757 (Reply 12):
Excellent Video Report from NBC affiliate KING 5 in Seattle about the Paine Field controversy.

What I find interesting:

Quote:
"Sea-Tac (Airport) is better suited to that kind of commercial airline," said spokesman Christopher Schwarzen.

Obviously they don't know anything about Allegiant...


User currently offlineSkyTaxi From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3257 times:

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/200...cts.interest.of.commercial.airline

"Two years ago, Reardon appointed a panel of elected officials and business leaders to update a 1970s agreement guiding use of Paine Field. The group found that an airport operator can't legally prevent airlines from using the airport for passenger flights but also is under no obligation to recruit airlines or to pay for improvements to facilitate service."


It appears that the Airport operator can't stop an airline from using the airport.


User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3225 times:



Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 14):
The problem is, it wouldn't be a few daily flights. I can't imagine Allegiant starting up PAE without AS/QX throwing quite a few flights in as well. And of course, WN would be an interesting option. Instead of 2 or 3 flights, it'd be 20 or 30. Not necessarily overnight, but in the not-too-distant-future. I think it would fantastic, but I doubt the residents would.

There are relatively simple ways of limiting the amount of commercial air service to an airport if the residents/local officials feel it necessary. The residents should at least allow enough service to be to their benefit.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineFlybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3125 times:



Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 5):
There has been efforts to start commercial services at PAE for darn near 20 years, if not longer. The problem is there is a somewhat large and VERY vocal community group opposed to it, as they believe it will ruin the current standard of living in the area, and (IMO what is much more important to them) property values.

Not everyone enjoys jets flying over their homes.... furthermore what neighborhoods around airports have ever been known to be "quality" areas in the first place. I think most people already have it bad around the Casio Rd areas near Paine... I'm sure that people in Mukilteo don't want their neighborhoods to end up like those around SEA/TAC.

I think you'll always find a great push from an aviation site for new service to airports that don't see any and anyone is a fool for not supporting it. But increased air service will be followed by an exodus of people from the neighborhoods surrounding Paine who can't stand the constant aircraft movements and thus a devaluation of property. A handful of discount flights from Paine to Kalamazoo ain't worth that.



"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2464 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3070 times:
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Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 9):
I remember some years back San Juan Airlines (I think) did PAE-PDX. I couldn't tell you what type of aircraft it was, but it was probably a 9-seater type.

They were flying Beech 99s on the route.

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 18):
I think you'll always find a great push from an aviation site for new service to airports that don't see any and anyone is a fool for not supporting it. But increased air service will be followed by an exodus of people from the neighborhoods surrounding Paine who can't stand the constant aircraft movements and thus a devaluation of property. A handful of discount flights from Paine to Kalamazoo ain't worth that.

Your last statement just proves the idiocy of the local govt. Does even 5 G4 flights a week ( just assuming a G4 type schedule) would even be noticed compared to the numerous flights of the Boeing Company? Just my thoughts on that. I don't care one way or the other, but if the airport is such a bad thing, the folks would have already have left. They should allow sched flights, but just limit numbers. They could seel the slots at auction and make a bit more $$ as well. Oh well.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2998 times:

If there was an issue with bringing WN or AS to BFI, these same issues apply to PAE. PAE, BFI, and SEA are all in the same county (King County). King County leaders that realized a move by some airlines to BFI created a bitter battle and caused a lot of SEA officials to be angry. They liked the idea of WN at BFI at first but realized that would be playing a "favorites" sort of game and if they let WN in then they have to let AS or anyone else that wants to fly there in. Why should WN or G4 have the chance to cash in on the same pax with much cheaper airport fees? The same issue would happen at PAE. I'd think if anyone should have any chance to fly there it would be AS and QX. Just because G4's model may fit the PAE airport structure better has nothing to do with them being given a chance to fly there. I just think that every problem WN and AS had getting into BFI goes for PAE as well because same county, same leaders, same issues. BLI can do what they want because they aren't in King County.

User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9633 posts, RR: 68
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2996 times:
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PHOTO SCREENER

PAE is located in Snohomish County.

User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2744 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2989 times:



Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 20):
PAE, BFI, and SEA are all in the same county (King County).

Ummmm. . . . no, they're not. SEA and BFI are in King County, and run by the Port of Seattle. PAE is in Snohomish County, and run by the County itself.

Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 20):
The same issue would happen at PAE

No. It would bring revenue into an entirely different county/community, and a different governing body.

Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 20):
getting into BFI goes for PAE as well because same county, same leaders, same issues.

See above.

Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 20):
BLI can do what they want because they aren't in King County

That one you got correct (Whatcom County).


Regards,

Hamlet69  profile 



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineSupraZachAir From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Feb 2004, 634 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2955 times:

You can hardly compare G4 adding at most a handful of flights to PAE to WN moving its entire operation to BFI.

User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5590 posts, RR: 29
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2916 times:



Quoting SupraZachAir (Reply 23):
You can hardly compare G4 adding at most a handful of flights to PAE to WN moving its entire operation to BFI.

In a vacuum, yes. However, if the BFI saga were to be repeated, you'd see AS/QX demanding access to PAE, and it wouldn't be just a few flights a week either. There is absolutely no way that they would allow another carrier to gain the upper hand at PAE, and if they blink, WN and perhaps others (DLconn to SLC as an example) would all be jumping in. In the end, the county would either have to say no, allow service with limits via auction, or just open her up.

Hopefully, they at least allow limited service, but I'm not going ot hold my breath.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
25 Mason : Just a side, is DL still operating out of OLM with SLC service? How is that going?
26 Floridaflyboy : No, there is currently no commercial air service at OLM.
27 FATFlyer : Are you thinking of SLE in Oregon? Those flights are still operating.
28 Mason : I thought DL started RJ service between SLC and OLM (I know this was operating for a while), but I was unsure if it was still operating. Indeed fligh
29 Briguy1974 : You can not compare starting flights at BFI with flights at PAE. This is two different areas. Having lived in the Bothell/ Mill Creek area..the commut
30 PlanesNTrains : I don't believe DL has ever served OLM. The only flights that I can think of in recent times have been to GEG and perhaps PDX or PSC. But I don't thi
31 ThreeIfByAir : That 4x weekly G4 MD-80 must have some special power to destroy property values and generate noise lacking in all those Boeing widebodies flying dail
32 Post contains links National757 : And so the Paine Field saga continues.. From HeraldNet: http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20080519/NEWS01/182040556&news01ad=1 From the article: What k
33 FATFlyer : They already have that info from a report the county did last year ago about PAE. Two essential, important and fundamental lessons were learned durin
34 Floridaflyboy : DL Connection did fly SLC-BLI until relatively recently. Perhaps this is what folks are thinking of.
35 PlanesNTrains : Your correct, of course, but I should have clarified. "The only flights that I can think of in recent times TO/FROM OLM have been to GEG and perhaps
36 Floridaflyboy : Oh, okay, gotcha! Yes, it was Big Sky Airlines who flew GEG-OLM relatively recently.
37 Post contains links FATFlyer : Another article today. http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20080520/NEWS01/222995735 The county says that they will not pay for any improvements Allegian
38 FATFlyer : Today's Seattle Times editorial has come out in favor of commercial flights at PAE.
39 Visityyj : Well an MD-80 certainly does "generate noise" lacking in all those Boeing widebodies. Speaking of which and from flightaware.com, in the past week "a
40 MtnWest1979 : Cascade Airways, Empire Airlines, and Big Sky Airlines have op'd from OLM in recent ( 30 years) times. Cascade flew BE99s, Empire Metro IIIs as well
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