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Why No Southwest In NYC Market?  
User currently offlineB727fan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 305 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9003 times:

Hello,
Now that ATA is gone, I wonder how come Southwest is not entering the NYC market. EWR/LGA or even JFK. Of course the fly to Philly and Long Island, but why none of the 3 major metro airports?
Surely the ATA's NYC routs were not losing $$!

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

72 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNycaross From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9002 times:

Perhaps LGA is slot restricted. JFK has competition with B6. EWR has competition with CO.

User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8987 times:

LGA, for one, is slot-controlled, and I don't think WN flies to any slot-controlled airports (though I may be wrong).

Furthermore, ATC and weather delays in that market could throw a kink into WN's whole schedule.

Third, it's difficult to go up against CO at EWR. WN has largely avoided those fights (CO at IAH, AA at DFW, DL at ATL, NW at MSP), although it has been willing to take on UA at DEN.

All in all, it's a difficult market, with all the major carriers fighting over premium business travelers. Most of those travelers, I believe, want the ability to redeem FF miles for international flights and have opportunities for upgrades. WN doesn't give them this. I don't think that's the main reason, but it probably does play a role.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineAA61Hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8979 times:

Doesn't SW say they serve NYC by way of ISP?


Go big or go home
User currently offlinePITops From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1442 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8967 times:



Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 3):
Doesn't SW say they serve NYC by way of ISP?

We do. Just not as convienient for the city as the "big 3". WN has enough delay problems at PHL. We don't need anymore.



Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8960 times:



Quoting Ssides (Reply 2):
LGA, for one, is slot-controlled, and I don't think WN flies to any slot-controlled airports (though I may be wrong).

You would be. Southwest flies to SNA.



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineJlbmedia From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8909 times:



Quoting PITops (Reply 4):
WN has enough delay problems at PHL. We don't need anymore.

I think WN originally went into PHL, despite it's delay problems, as they thought USAirways was on it's last legs. Even so, I do believe they have been successful at PHL. and are looking for more gates. Can anyone confirm this. John.



JLB54061
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8899 times:



Quoting B727fan (Thread starter):
Now that ATA is gone, I wonder how come Southwest is not entering the NYC market. EWR/LGA or even JFK. Of course the fly to Philly and Long Island, but why none of the 3 major metro airports?
Surely the ATA's NYC routs were not losing $$!

Several reasons-
I bet one of the biggest is they won't be able to go in and set-up as big of an operation as they'd like for the NYC market because they wouldn't be able to acquire the number of slots they need.

Quoting Ssides (Reply 2):
CO at IAH, AA at DFW

WN is at HOU and DAL though, and competes with AA and CO to the common destinations out of each airport.

Quoting Ssides (Reply 2):
although it has been willing to take on UA at DEN

They've taken on the legacies at quite a few other airports too, even if not in as large of a presence: IAD, DEN, SFO, SLC, STL, PHL, DTW, CLE, MDW (vs. ORD) to name some.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8728 times:

Always will contend that B6's very existence is living proof that WN is not infallible (as some have so readily fooled themselves into believing) and can screw up and drop the ball just as badly as anyone else.

Throughout the 90s, Kennedy Int'l courted WN (and others) like mad, and were consistently turned down. B6 took them up, and never looked back.

And for a bit o' pie-in-sky speculation:
I dare say that if WN indeed had the foresight to go into JFK back in the day, it'd without question be their largest operation today. PHX/LAS/etc be damned.


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5155 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8622 times:

ISP is a good little airport. Convenient. Nicely-located.

Problem for those of us in Manhattan is that it's usually not worth the trip out there because WN's fares often aren't appreciably-lower than what we can find from LGA on, say, Airtran. This was certainly true for my recent trip to Dallas, and WN was more-expensive and less-convenient than US on my trip this weekend to SDF. (Nonstop LGA-SDF on US/AirWis cheaper than WN and nonstop 2 hrs vs one conx 4+ hours on the flights at the times we needed to go.)

Frequency is another issue. Fact is that if you're going to South Florida, there's a lot more frequency to a lot of destinations nonstop on B6 from JFK that you can't get at ISP. I have a relative that would much rather go to ISP than JFK, but has repeatedly found B6 just more convenient in terms of schedules and competitive in price. That person could take or leave the IFE, but the frequency makes B6 a better bet, at least as far as recent flights have been concerned.

Bottom line is that I like WN, and I'd use them more, even though it means going to ISP, if there was a comparable price and an equivalent convenience. So far, recently, there hasn't been.

[Edited 2008-05-17 23:23:38]

User currently offlinePWM2TXLHopper From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1324 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8599 times:

Quoting B727fan (Thread starter):
Hello,
Now that ATA is gone, I wonder how come Southwest is not entering the NYC market. EWR/LGA or even JFK. Of course the fly to Philly and Long Island, but why none of the 3 major metro airports?

Well, Southwest does fly to ISP, so that's the general New York area. Just out in the suburbs a bit. They also fly to PVD and BDL. Granted, both these involve driving a while to get to. However, with Southwest catering to leisure travelers, these two airports might attract a little bit of NYC area vacation travelers from parts of Long Island and the suburbs in Connecticut. (Just my guess on this one)

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that service to heavily congested, and delayed NYC airports doesn't fit Southwest's business model preference of flying into airports where they can do a quick turn around, and get out in thirty minutes or so. Their operation depends on utilizing each plane as economically as possible, and that means more hours in the air and less on the ground, at the gate. Flying to NYC would most likely guarantee flights would be chronically delayed. These continuously late flights would have a negative impact throughout their system as the aircraft failed to be in the next city on time, for the next flight leg and caused a domino effect.

Also, NYC is a competitive market. Lot's of LCC competition too. This can keep fares down, and hamper airlines from making a profit on overlapping routes.

These are also two of the main reasons why Southwest has never entered to ATL market. I often hear people ask the same question you just asked, only regarding ATL. Well, it's the same kind of situation in a way with NYC. I'm sure there's other variables as well, but those are two of the biggies.

Quoting Jlbmedia (Reply 6):
I think WN originally went into PHL, despite it's delay problems, as they thought USAirways was on it's last legs. Even so, I do believe they have been successful at PHL. and are looking for more gates. Can anyone confirm this. John.

Yes, PHL is delay prone as well! However, when Southwest went in there, there wasn't much competition from LCC's. It was kind of a fortress hub ruled by U.S Airways. Similar to CVG and MSP with DL and NW respectively. This is a good example of a delay prone city that hampers smooth operations, yet is attractive to Southwest because of it's lack of LCC and high fares.

[Edited 2008-05-17 23:46:03]

User currently offlinePhatty3374 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8248 times:



Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 10):
Well, Southwest does fly to ISP, so that's the general New York area. Just out in the suburbs a bit. They also fly to PVD and BDL. Granted, both these involve driving a while to get to.

And by 'a while' you must mean over three hours each. There is no way that you can consider PVD (3:25 on mapquest, probably 4+ with traffic) or BDL (2:35 on mapquest, probably 3+ with traffic) part of the general New York area. Even Ryanair wouldn't play such a devious trick!

As to ISP, it really is out there on Long Island, so most New Yorkers (myself included) would only travel that far if Southwest had a *great* fare. As mentioned above, you will typically find a reasonably priced flight at LGA/JFK/EWR, so ISP is really a Long Islander/Southwest-junkie airport  Smile

Regards


User currently offlinePar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7146 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8083 times:



Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 9):
Problem for those of us in Manhattan is that it's usually not worth the trip out there because WN's fares often aren't appreciably-lower than what we can find from LGA on, say, Airtran. This was certainly true for my recent trip to Dallas, and WN was more-expensive and less-convenient than US on my trip this weekend to SDF. (Nonstop LGA-SDF on US/AirWis cheaper than WN and nonstop 2 hrs vs one conx 4+ hours on the flights at the times we needed to go.)

I have a question related to the times that you post, I assume you are adding the transit time from Manhattan to Islip to the overall journey, but are you using actual time for any given day or the airline flight times?
Here's the basis of my question, WN flies into less congested airports because it allows them to add frequency doing fast turns. Departing from JFK on a Friday - any day is almost the same - your flight is listed as ontime if you push back from the gate within 10-15mins, then you may sit on the tarmac for 30mins or more depending on time of day before actual take off. To compare to WN's business model, those times have to be accounted for, as push back from the gate at Islip and take off may occur within 10-15mins of each other, thus saving more time. How are flight delays in terms of push back and take off at Islip compared to JFK, for travelling, most feel as if we are getting somewhere once the a/c takes to the air.


User currently offlineGecmd11 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7650 times:



Quoting Phatty3374 (Reply 11):
And by 'a while' you must mean over three hours each. There is no way that you can consider PVD (3:25 on mapquest, probably 4+ with traffic) or BDL (2:35 on mapquest, probably 3+ with traffic) part of the general New York area. Even Ryanair wouldn't play such a devious trick!

As to ISP, it really is out there on Long Island, so most New Yorkers (myself included) would only travel that far if Southwest had a *great* fare. As mentioned above, you will typically find a reasonably priced flight at LGA/JFK/EWR, so ISP is really a Long Islander/Southwest-junkie airport  

 checkmark 

No way would i drive out to BDL or PVD from NYC the gas alone would kill any savings from there.....PVD would be better for the BOS area.

ISP is also a haul for anyone in the City,maybe Queens but that a stretch.........
just my  twocents 


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16861 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7549 times:



Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 3):
Doesn't SW say they serve NYC by way of ISP?

55 miles from Mid-town, plus Long Island traffic does not make ISP an attractive alternative which is why pretty much everyone except WN have dropped ISP.

WN can either pick around the edges of the NYC Metro area (SWF, ISP, TTN etc) or they can be bold and come right in, with the recent reports of WN borrowing large amounts of cash it seems obvious they are positioning themselves for some sort of acquisition they feel will become available either from an airlines default due to high oil prices or divestitures to appease regulators during a merger process.

I would keep an eye on US Airways LGA's slots and or B6, either one WN could easily afford to acquire.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4320 posts, RR: 36
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7494 times:

Indeed I feel WN should be bigger in NYC. I think in the end it would pay off to get a foothold in the biggest market of the USA even if there will be some dalays and the margins are small. WNs brand recognition around NYC and for international travellers based or arriving in / departing from NYC is small. If they offer some flights from one of the big three airports, there is also a better chance people who gets to know them will choose them for their next Texas-California flights.
Maybe they should have started building up a presence in NYC before JetBlue, AirTran and Spirit scooped away the potential marketshare waiting for a Southwest style carrier.
I wonder one of the reasons is that the more midwestern managers of Southwest have always looked at NYC as sort of liberal evil area with which they don´t feel much in common.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineDUALRATED From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1001 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7440 times:

Southwest could not survive in Big Apple. There just not a New York kinda airline. Plus ask anyone in north Jersey if they would fly on Southwest from the Tri Sate area and they will respond..... Southwho?


AIRLINERS.NET MODERATORS SUCK MOOSE DICK!!!!
User currently offlinePITops From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1442 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7440 times:



Quoting Jlbmedia (Reply 6):
I think WN originally went into PHL, despite it's delay problems, as they thought USAirways was on it's last legs. Even so, I do believe they have been successful at PHL. and are looking for more gates. Can anyone confirm this. John.

Yeah they are currently remodeling gates at PHL for WN to take over. WN is doing very well at PHL and wants to grow quite a bit from what I hear. Alot of people are talking about US and what they plan to do with PHL once the UA merger comes through. Alot seem to think they will chose IAD and pull flights out of PHL. That will help some of PHL's problems and give WN room to grow.



Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6562 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7404 times:



Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 16):
Southwest could not survive in Big Apple. There just not a New York kinda airline

If they flew there, trust me, people would fly them.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16861 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7276 times:



Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 16):
Southwest could not survive in Big Apple. There just not a New York kinda airline. Plus ask anyone in north Jersey if they would fly on Southwest from the Tri Sate area and they will respond..... Southwho

That's nonsense, plenty of people in Northern NJ have been trekking to PHL specifically to fly WN, also WN has more National media coverage in the NY/NJ market through the NFL, ESPN etc.. than B6 does locally. There's as much if not more brand recognition with WN in the NYC as there is with B6.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineUSAir330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 824 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7018 times:



Quoting Jlbmedia (Reply 6):
Even so, I do believe they have been successful at PHL. and are looking for more gates. Can anyone confirm this. John.

WN is adding more gates at PHL. Currently there are appx. 67 flights a day. From my understanding we are suppose to be up to appx. 120-150 flights a day by 2010. The reason Delta moved is for WN to get there gates and then shut down 3 gates and build a hammer head at the end of E terminal.

You'll be seeing WN at PHL until they fold.


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19215 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6935 times:

How seriously did WN consider JFK pre-B6? I ask JFK was, at that time, reputedly very quiet most of the time. B6 does, of course, now have a major presence at JFK (how many aircraft does it now base there?). Assuming WN started JFK before B6 and B6 didn't enter, would WN have been able to achieve excellent operational performance? More specifically, would it have managed to achieve its zippy turnarounds? And would it have achieved excellent punctuality? How delay-prone would it have been? Anyone know what deal JFK offered B6? How many passengers does B6 now carry to/from JFK? Thanks.

[Edited 2008-05-18 09:57:48]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlinePITops From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1442 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6923 times:



Quoting USAir330 (Reply 20):
WN is adding more gates at PHL. Currently there are appx. 67 flights a day. From my understanding we are suppose to be up to appx. 120-150 flights a day by 2010. The reason Delta moved is for WN to get there gates and then shut down 3 gates and build a hammer head at the end of E terminal.

You'll be seeing WN at PHL until they fold.

I wonder if WN will give up their gates in D terminal. That is a pain trying to connect from D to E.



Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
User currently offlineUSAir330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 824 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6863 times:

WN has 4 gates on the D side Terminal. D2/D4/D1/D3. NW has 3 gates at the E terminal. E2/E4/E6. Problem is E6 if I'm not mistaken is the only gate that NW has that they can throw a 757 on. WN just has to negotiate with NW and see if they are willin to trade gates. Which will probably happen since D3 has enough room for a 757.

User currently offlineDUALRATED From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1001 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6776 times:

If you say so, I mean if Someone wanted to spend $80 in gas and drive 2 hrs to Philly to save $20 in airfare thats nonsense! And that does not speak for the millions of people in North Jersey who have never even heard of southwest , except like you point out via the media. (Oh and by the way North Jersey gets Pollo Loco ads too....but it's not like they are going to be eating there anytime soon since they dont exist in Jersey) And why mention B6, I did'nt. But since you did I would like to point out B6 is in New York at all three airports. So I can't see how Southwest has any brand recognition no less a larger one than B6. So I'll re-ask the question . Why no Southwest in NYC?

[Edited 2008-05-18 10:28:42]

[Edited 2008-05-18 10:30:28]


AIRLINERS.NET MODERATORS SUCK MOOSE DICK!!!!
25 7673mech : The big 3 initially also did not fit WN's business model. Although they are now at major airports - for a good part of their existence - up until 10 y
26 Lufthansa411 : The B6 slots are and will be well taken care of. Just how well remains a key question, but some recent stock purchases will help them out me thinks.
27 USAir330 : Funny you should say that. About 2 months ago I was outside the terminal smoking and a man came out and started asking question's about WN. About 3 m
28 KU747 : You may be right but WN flies to CLE which is CO 3rd hub. but still you have a valid point.
29 DUALRATED : They don't and they won't , I trust you, I agree they would!
30 MtnWest1979 : I would strongly disagree with above statement. JFK would not be anywhere near the xfer location as PHX or LAS is for WN. And The largest draw I thin
31 DfwRevolution : This is classic A.net. Contradicting yourself while also correcting someone for something they didn't say. You my friend will fit in just fine here.
32 PWM2TXLHopper : Read what I wrote! I said both these alternative airports take a while to drive to. I wasn't indicating these are direct Greater New York airports, b
33 TG992 : VX (Virgin America, the code on this is out of date) also does LAX-JFK
34 DUALRATED : Huh? Contradiction?
35 ConcordeBoy : ...probably because you didn't completely think out the nature of your response something about significant access to more (and potentially higher-yi
36 TxAgKuwait : I still find it funny that folks buy in to the "WN caters to leisure travelers" fallacy. Southwest probably carries a larger percentage of business t
37 Post contains links AussieItaliano : Not according to what they say on their route map. This is directly from www.southwest.com: "These cities on the route map serve as alternate airport
38 DUALRATED : While you make a good point, I don't think you can view Philly and NYC in the same manner. Philly realy only had USAirways, while NYC has CO, B6, AA,
39 DocLightning : WN prides itself, among other things, on its on-time schedule. It also prides itself on low operating costs. As everyone else has said, they could not
40 MOBflyer : Something about a much more segmented market, more competition, and thus further diluted yields. Much like LAX is not the easily-captured gold-mine t
41 ConcordeBoy : k, let's break this statement down: um, what "gold mine" in todays aviation market would be "easily captured"... and do tell, if such a market existe
42 ContinentalEWR : WN is in the NYC market. They serve Stewart Airport in Newburgh and Islip.
43 STT757 : Exactly, WN has smelled blood in the water around US Airways for a while now. They are in PHL, PIT, BWI, PHX, LAS all former or current US hubs. I de
44 Phatty3374 : According to Southwest's website and route map, they do NOT serve SWF; however, they list ISP as part of the "New York Area" (you can see this if you
45 DUALRATED : Agian not NYC! They would fail! period. Southwest prides itself on being "low cost" and "on time" both things the shuttle is not! What are they?
46 STT757 : WN is in PHL and SFO, not exactly the best airports for on time performance.
47 Cloudy : As for New York, my guess is that other cities will come first. Minneapolis or even Cincinnati come to mind. Even that seems to me to be unlikely. We
48 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : WN will never serve NYC. Its not their style or in their business model. WN does serve BDL which gets alot of traffic from NY state Metro suburbs and
49 Cloudy : The opportunities they may see, in rough order of probability....... ......Financial maneuvers, such as the purchase of fuel hedges. .....downsizing
50 Dornier328JET : Personally, I believe WN should serve HPN. Granted it's a small airport and probably expensive to operate from, its not near as congested as the 3 mai
51 Cloudy : One word - NIMBY's.
52 MOBflyer : Some markets are more easily penetrated than others, its all relative. LAX and NYC are difficult to penetrate, as they are already very very segmente
53 LONGisland89 : You hit the nail on the head!!
54 Cjpark : Golden Parachutes? Or Bankrupt fuel suppliers? Or The extra cost of maintenance they will no longer be able to farm out to overseas contractors per t
55 A380US : If any thing I would imagine southwest to make a mini hub out of SWF. Its perfect for them because you can be in an dout in 1 and a half hours.
56 ConcordeBoy : How so? Which you base on ___? Of course the obvious ensuing questions then being: 1) waiting for what to change? 2) why have no airlines, in this th
57 N1120A : All of their aircraft are essentially based at JFK. It doesn't work the same way as Ryanair. Basically unlimited ops at times that didn't conflict wi
58 MSYtristar : So, seeing as my response was "If they flew there, trust me, people would fly them", I take it you have a change of heart and now agree that New York
59 DUALRATED : It is always nice to dream
60 EMB170 : That's an interesting thought...I've always thought that if WN purchased the C series, or even the EMB-190/195, they would be able to efficiently ser
61 DocLightning : WN has made it pretty obvious that they will only stop buying 737's when Boeing stops making them. It's more than maintenance costs. The economies of
62 MOBflyer : The very rapid building of the LAX hub, followed by the reduction and elimination of several routes. Higher airfares, less segmentation, higher yield
63 Cloudy : This is unlikely because of WN's huge market capitalization compared to other airlines, and even other US companies in other parts of the travel busi
64 N1120A : Southwest isn't Delta
65 MOBflyer : Never said it was. Concordeboy asked me how DL learned of the very segmented nature of the LAX market. WN entered LAX in 1982 with just three departu
66 737tanker : Don't count on WN leaving the D terminal. The reason for that PHL airport is rebuilding security for the D and E gates. When this rebuilding is done
67 PITops : That will make things much better. Would LGA be the better choice if they did enter NYC? Off topic, I've always thought WN would do good if they star
68 N1120A : Then again, DL acquired an already entrenched carrier at LAX and squandered their network.
69 DocLightning : Just to illustrate a point about ISP. My boyfriend, who doesn't have a lot of money, bought a ticket on WN ISP-LAS-BUR. It was $100 cheaper than flyin
70 MOBflyer : IMO, that's what we need in NYC - convenient transportation to make ISP and SWF viable competitors for NYC's business traffic. Perhaps the DOT could
71 ConcordeBoy : You're missing the scope of the question... I'm not talking about NOW, I'm talking about how could you have made that argument in the 90s when WN had
72 Wjcandee : I'm not sure if your guy is traveling from Manhattan; maybe that's where I'm getting mixed up, but it seems like there's a 3:15 from Penn Station arr
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