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Jetblue & Pittsburgh  
User currently offlineBmg42000 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 10 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3958 times:

Anyword on how Jetblue is doing in Pittsburgh? I am trying to plan a trip for next year and was wondering if B6 may drop this city.

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3710 times:

I have heard that PIT is doing okay, and that it had picked up after struggling. I don't know if we'll see any B6 station cuts. I think I heard that ONT wasn't doing as well, and it only has one flight. PDX also only has one flight and is a longer distance, but I haven't heard that it was struggling. Maybe these two will go before PIT, but I don't know.


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User currently offlinePITops From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1442 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3459 times:

I talked to someone from B6 today at PIT and they said that they will be back to 5 daily flights (everyday) again very soon. They also said they are waiting to see what US and UA do with their BOS flights once the merger takes place. I think B6 might take over those routes. Their yields are better to BOS since US is now down to 2 flights a day. I still think they would make some money if they served more destinations from PIT. Go out west more. US has cut pretty much every west coast flight out. PIT should be safe for now. PIT is an untapped market right now. Very underserved, even for a dying city.


Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
User currently offlineBmg42000 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3234 times:

Thanx. I will wait until the Jetblue schedule comes out before I buy my tickets.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33037 posts, RR: 71
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3164 times:

I heard a rumor the other day that all the remaining East Coast stations (sans Florida and ACK) that don't have FLL/MCO service will get it next winter. That means MCO-PIT/CLT/RIC/RDU and FLL-PIT/ROC/BTV/PWM.

Guess we'll known soon enough.



a.
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9235 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2968 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
I heard a rumor the other day that all the remaining East Coast stations (sans Florida and ACK) that don't have FLL/MCO service will get it next winter. That means MCO-PIT/CLT/RIC/RDU and FLL-PIT/ROC/BTV/PWM.

Guess we'll known soon enough.

Now that seems interesting. PIT-MCO will have a ton of traffic on it then (US, WN, FL) as will FLL (US, WN), unless FL decides to re-launch that next, then that will also have 4 airlines on that route. Isn't PIT-Florida pretty saturated as it is? I also think that PIT would benefit from more trans-con flights. I know that LGB has pretty much no slots, but I wonder how a flight like that would do. It would serve Southern LA pretty much...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33037 posts, RR: 71
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2934 times:



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 5):
Now that seems interesting. PIT-MCO will have a ton of traffic on it then (US, WN, FL) as will FLL (US, WN), unless FL decides to re-launch that next, then that will also have 4 airlines on that route. Isn't PIT-Florida pretty saturated as it is?

Not sure about MCO-PIT, Pittsburgh-Fort Lauderdale could easily use a third carrier, just for the capacity. It's lost a lot of capacity in the past few years, as has Miami-Pittsburgh.

It is interesting to note PIT is the only East Coast station, sans ACK, that does not have non-stops to either Orlando or Fort Lauderdale.



a.
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3211 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2886 times:



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 5):
Now that seems interesting. PIT-MCO will have a ton of traffic on it then (US, WN, FL) as will FLL (US, WN), unless FL decides to re-launch that next, then that will also have 4 airlines on that route.

WN does not serve PIT-FLL nonstop. USA3000 is cutting the route as well, so that leaves one carrier (US) on the route, with one flight a day.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
Not sure about MCO-PIT, Pittsburgh-Fort Lauderdale could easily use a third carrier, just for the capacity. It's lost a lot of capacity in the past few years, as has Miami-Pittsburgh.

FL abruptly ended PIT-FLL/RSW/TPA last week; AFAIK that leaves the only daily service in the entire PIT-PBI/FLL/MIA market this summer to a once daily US Airways 737 (FLL), and a once daily American Eagle 35 seater (MIA). RSW will have less than once daily service as well.



FLYi
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33037 posts, RR: 71
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2855 times:



Quoting PITrules (Reply 7):
to a once daily US Airways 737 (FLL), and a once daily American Eagle 35 seater (MIA). RSW will have less than once daily service as well.

Which is grossly underserved for a market that has almost 1,000 daily O&D pax (993 to be exact).

jetBlue is a natural fit for FLL-PIT. Also, now that AA mainline can fly to PIT once again, I really wouldn't be surprised if mainline was brought back to MIA-PIT in winter 2008/09.



a.
User currently offlinePITops From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1442 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2768 times:



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 5):
Now that seems interesting. PIT-MCO will have a ton of traffic on it then (US, WN, FL) as will FLL (US, WN), unless FL decides to re-launch that next, then that will also have 4 airlines on that route. Isn't PIT-Florida pretty saturated as it is? I also think that PIT would benefit from more trans-con flights. I know that LGB has pretty much no slots, but I wonder how a flight like that would do. It would serve Southern LA pretty much...

WN just added another daily MCO and TPA. PIT could definately use another carrier going to FLL nonstop. WN or not, it's needed. I still wish B6 would add some west coast destinations. Those are really needed. Only way to get there on WN is through MDW or LAS. And we only have 2 nonstop LAS flights.



Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2766 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
all the remaining East Coast stations (sans Florida and ACK) that don't have FLL/MCO service will get it next winter. That means MCO-PIT/CLT/RIC/RDU and FLL-PIT/ROC/BTV/PWM

Any word on B6 expanding MSY to FLL/MCO?
Particularly seeing as it's about as arguably "east coast" as PIT  Wink


User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2657 times:



Quoting PITops (Reply 9):
PIT could definately use another carrier going to FLL nonstop

B6 better get a move on it before WN does. These days, WN is really watching FLL closely!


User currently offlineFlaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1286 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2656 times:

Funny this should come up. I've been wrestling with my conscience on an upcoming trip PIT-FLL in August. Its actually an onward trip to Bimini via private charter from Executive or it would be a no brainer. Most of the group I am traveling to Bimini with are taking the US flight. I've been boycotting US for years. B6 has the best fares, the best service and my loyalty lies there as they are keeping the market afloat. Trying to balance the convenience of traveling with the rest of the group over what I feel is the best deal on B6 has been a struggle. I would really like to see US exit the market and see what happens with B6/WN/FL as I like all of these carriers.

.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33037 posts, RR: 71
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2626 times:



Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 11):
Quoting PITops (Reply 9):
PIT could definately use another carrier going to FLL nonstop

B6 better get a move on it before WN does. These days, WN is really watching FLL closely!

Yes, they are, but WN/B6 co-exist on FLL-BUF/AUS/RDU, and they would be able to on FLL-PIT, too.



a.
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3211 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2588 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
Which is grossly underserved for a market that has almost 1,000 daily O&D pax (993 to be exact).

You and I might think so, but more importantly AirTran, USA3000, US, and AA don't think so...or don't really care...

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
jetBlue is a natural fit for FLL-PIT. Also, now that AA mainline can fly to PIT once again, I really wouldn't be surprised if mainline was brought back to MIA-PIT in winter 2008/09.

I would think AA and US would be a better fit for more PIT-FLL/MIA before JetBlue. US has the FF following in PIT. AA has the same in MIA, plus onward connections. B6 has limited gate space in FLL; I'm not sure if they are ready to expend that resource for a PIT flight. As you mentioned, PIT is the only east coast B6 station without Fla service. It's not a coincindence. There is a reason B6 has not added Florida from PIT. That is because they have historically struggled in PIT, have yet to make a proffit there, and have publically stated they want to concentrate on improving yields on their JFK/BOS service before doing anything else with PIT.

Having said that, AA flies a 35 seater once a day. I would think they would upgrade to a 50 seater before adding mainline.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Yes, they are, but WN/B6 co-exist on FLL-BUF/AUS/RDU, and they would be able to on FLL-PIT, too.

One thing at a time...I'd be happy if one of these carriers added service to PIT before we talk about both of them competing on a service neither yet provide.

[Edited 2008-05-19 23:41:30]


FLYi
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33037 posts, RR: 71
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2566 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 14):
B6 has limited gate space in FLL; I'm not sure if they are ready to expend that resource for a PIT flight.

Gate space issues are long gone and they don't have limited resources at FLL. Not only do they now have the gate space they need, but a whole new Concourse, Concourse A, is being built at FLL's Terminal 1 exclusively for jetBlue's use.

They have exploited the lack of capacity on FLL-RDU/RIC/CLT, and FLL-PIT fits this mold perfectly, if not even more so. It would not surprise me at all.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 14):

Having said that, AA flies a 35 seater once a day. I would think they would upgrade to a 50 seater before adding mainline.

They fly a 44-seater, not a 35-seater. MIA only recieves ERJ-140s, and is only equipped to handle ERJ-140s, so upgrading to an ERJ-145 was never an option, regardless of if there was demand (and there is). American Eagle does not fly ERJ-135s, ERJ-145s, and CRJ-700s to Miami. It saves them money not having to equip MIA for those types.

That is, at least, until June 1st, when AmericanConnection will begin replacing American Eagle on select routes using ERJ-145s. And, yes, Pittsburgh is one of the routes seeing an upgrade to a larger ERJ-145.

MIA-PIT/CLE/IND/CMH are prime candidates to receive mainline again when AA starts recieving 738 deliveries early next year.

When you look at why AA is using ERJ-140s on certain MIA routes, it's because they have no choice. S80s are not an option because they don't fly to MIA; ERJ-145s are not an option because they don't fly to MIA; 757s are often not an option because they are too big to get the strong yield mix that AA wants; 738s are not an option because the 738 fleet is so tightly utilized and the priority is on international flights. It's ERJ-140 or bust.

ERJ-140s are the only option right now and AA hates using them on MIA-PIT/CLE/IND/CMH because they often are oversold, have to leave weight restricted (and passengers need to be removed), or leave behind a lot of luggage (take your pick - one of the four things pretty much happens on those four routes daily, at least between October and April). The ERJ-145's extra seats will be nice, but it isn't going to solve these problems. Adding a second ERJ-140 flight doesn't solve anything either. MQ's ERJ-140 fleet is also very tightly utizlied, and as there are no ERJs based at MIA, they have to be rotated in via Dallas and Chicago (i.e. routings like DFW-GSO-MIA-RIC-ORD). This makes it difficult to schedule, and it makes it especially difficult to schedule long segments like MIA-PIT. Shorter routes like MIA-GSO are easier to work with, and hence MIA-GSO has two daily flights.

With more 738s coming in early 2009, it opens up the possibility of those routes being up-gauaged.

[Edited 2008-05-20 00:08:27]


a.
User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2455 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
ERJ-140s are the only option right now and AA hates using them on MIA-PIT/CLE/IND/CMH because they often are oversold, have to leave weight restricted (and passengers need to be removed), or leave behind a lot of luggage (take your pick - one of the four things pretty much happens on those four routes daily, at least between October and April). The ERJ-145's extra seats will be nice, but it isn't going to solve these problems. Adding a second ERJ-140 flight doesn't solve anything either. MQ's ERJ-140 fleet is also very tightly utizlied, and as there are no ERJs based at MIA, they have to be rotated in via Dallas and Chicago (i.e. routings like DFW-GSO-MIA-RIC-ORD). This makes it difficult to schedule, and it makes it especially difficult to schedule long segments like MIA-PIT. Shorter routes like MIA-GSO are easier to work with, and hence MIA-GSO has two daily flights.

That certainly is terrible customer service to tell passengers on a daily basis that they have to leave luggage behind and get it later, or take another flight. I would imagine the people that regularly fly these routes become quite annoyed.


User currently offlineB6fll From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2398 times:

I work here in FLL and yes right now we have the gate space but once the busy season comes back we are suppose to be up over 50 flights a day...We will see. As far as the Terminal A being for Jetblue that is correct, but it wont be fiished for a very long time. They havent even started on it!

User currently offlineTooluther From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 305 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2356 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
jetBlue is a natural fit for FLL-PIT. Also, now that AA mainline can fly to PIT once again,

What was the trigger for that? Very good news.


User currently offlinePITops From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1442 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2266 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
Also, now that AA mainline can fly to PIT once again, I really wouldn't be surprised if mainline was brought back to MIA-PIT in winter 2008/09.

When was this announced?



Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2687 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2184 times:



Quoting PITops (Reply 19):
When was this announced?

He said "can," not "will." AA has a clause that when they downgrade a station to Eagle, it must stay Eagle for a certain period of time before mainline can return. I'm guessing that that time is now upon us, but it doesn't mean that they will add it back for sure. Usually, though, MAH is spot on, so don't be surprised if you get 738s on PIT-MIA this winter.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33037 posts, RR: 71
Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2169 times:

Quoting B752OS (Reply 16):
That certainly is terrible customer service to tell passengers on a daily basis that they have to leave luggage behind and get it later, or take another flight. I would imagine the people that regularly fly these routes become quite annoyed.

It's certainly nothing exclusive to American Airlines. This is actually quite common on all long-haul ERJ/CRJ flights from anywhere, especially leisure routes. It happens on AA's MIA flights often because of the tendency of people coming to Miami on vacation to take a lot of luggage - especially those going on cruises. You'll often see it on long RJ flights to places like Fort Myers, New Orleans, Los Angeles, or Orlando, too.

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 20):
He said "can," not "will." AA has a clause that when they downgrade a station to Eagle, it must stay Eagle for a certain period of time before mainline can return. I'm guessing that that time is now upon us, but it doesn't mean that they will add it back for sure.

Correct, the key word is "can," not "will." With new 738s coming online early next year, there are a few MIA routes that are prime to be upgraded to a 738, and PIT is a strong candidate for it, but it's far from 100% certain. I give it a much better chance of it happening next winter, however, then this winter, because new 738s don't come until January.

[Edited 2008-05-20 12:22:00]


a.
User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2122 times:



Quoting PITrules (Reply 14):
One thing at a time...I'd be happy if one of these carriers added service to PIT before we talk about both of them competing on a service neither yet provide.

Because lately, the trend at FLL has been that as soon as one announces service to a market, the other pounces on it too. What I think has become interesting, as MAH said previously, is the co-existance of both airlines in these smaller markets. On many of these markets, FLL went from no service to two airlines, and evidently, both are doing OK. I guess time will tell.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33037 posts, RR: 71
Reply 23, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2117 times:



Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 22):

Because lately, the trend at FLL has been that as soon as one announces service to a market, the other pounces on it too.

Correct. jetBlue wasn't offering service from FLL to any WN market. They suddenly announce FLL-RDU/BUF, and Southwest announces the same service not long after. B6 announces FLL-AUS, and then jetBlue quickly follows. FLL-PIT would likely be a similar situation, IMO.



a.
User currently offlineRSWA330 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2095 times:



Quoting PITrules (Reply 7):
FL abruptly ended PIT-FLL/RSW/TPA last week

The FL service from PIT to RSW was meant to be seasonal from the start. I just checked RSW's website and it is indeed seasonal service. U5 will still fly RSW all year. However, like you said, this will not be flown everyday.


25 PITrules : When the service was launched, there was no indication by FL that it was intended to be seasonal. Not surprising however as they seem to do this ofte
26 Steeler83 : Off topic, but did anyone hear about the latest FL MKE news? All/many of those added routes there: either reduced or history! (laughing is not meant
27 RSWA330 : Interesting. The RSW website has been wrong before so it wouldn't surprise me if it was intended to be year-round.
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