Orion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2881 times:
How are they doing? Something which makes me feel physically sick is that they are now having to fetch across more aircraft from Mesa as they are very busy now Aloha is out of business. What self-respecting native hawaian is patronising Go! and do they feel bad aboput doing so?
Apodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4384 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2711 times:
There is no way they can be doing well at 125 dollar oil with 50 seat RJ's. The company is in very bad shape financially, and a bankruptcy filing continues to seem likely. The fact that UA signed a codeshare with HA makes it very difficult for them to get any feed from mainline flights as well. I don't see this lasting more than another year. Which is sad, because Johnny O dragged a great airline out of business and gained nothing, and failed himself. I have no respect for Frank Lorenzo Jr, er I mean Johnny O.
RoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 10417 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2555 times:
It really bothers me when people keep saying how it is an absolute travesty that Go! entered the Hawaiian market and Aloha went out of business. Don't get me wrong because I honestly feel bad for everyone who lost their job and those impacted, but companies competting with others and going out of business is one of the core principles that make the American economy work. It happens everyday where companies enter new markets and push out older companies either by competing with low prices to see who has the bigger wallet or beating their costs.
Mesa might be the Walmart of the sky, but it happens. Overall it is what makes the US economy work. It's sad to see old business go, but if they aren't competitive, then that's why they fail. It's not because of the competitor (unless of course they did violate laws, which hasn't appeared to be the case).
A native Hawaiian might not appreciate seeing people lose their jobs, but money is what matters for businesses. It's not about pride. If they cared so much about Aloha, then we could have seen an Air New Zealand style save, but that doesn't happen in the US.
If you are so sad to go and want regulation to come back, then good for you. 99% of America doesn't, but you get on your soap box and say that. Please note that this post is not an attack on any specific person, just an overall opinion
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21910 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2542 times:
Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 5): but companies competting with others and going out of business is one of the core principles that make the American economy work
Predatory pricing to destroy a smaller competitor while taking losses is what makes the American economy stumble, because it can end up with no strong players, lack of service, etc. In an industry with such a large barrier to entry such as airlines, go!'s tactics are dangerous to health of the industry as a whole.
Which is not to say Aloha would have survived. They were badly run. But scorched earth economics are not the best policy.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Aloha73G From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2391 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2457 times:
Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 4): It happens everyday where companies enter new markets and push out older companies either by competing with low prices to see who has the bigger wallet or beating their costs.
Mesa might be the Walmart of the sky
Mesa has (had?) bigger pockets for sure....but go! did NOT have lower costs. They, in fact, had (and still have) the HIGHEST costs of the interisland carriers (Aloha, Hawaiian & Island Air).
Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 4): It's not because of the competitor (unless of course they did violate laws, which hasn't appeared to be the case).
According to the US Federal Court, Mesa and JO violated the law in their dealings with Hawaiian, and it seems they did to Aloha exactly what they did to Hawaiian.
Would you pay someone $52,500,000 to someone if you were truly not guilty??
Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter): How are they doing? Something which makes me feel physically sick is that they are now having to fetch across more aircraft from Mesa as they are very busy now Aloha is out of business. What self-respecting native hawaian is patronising Go! and do they feel bad aboput doing so?
Their planes are fuller, but they are still losing ALOT of money. I know quite a few people who have flown go! once because they had to (HA was full). In fact my boss flew go! from LIH once (had to be back that night) and she told us that she never wanted to fly go! again....even if she had to spend the night on a neighbor island.
As a side note....I see someone wearing the "NO Aloha in the Hawaiian skies....boycott go!" shirts almost every day.
Just a little tip: "Native Hawaiian" or "Hawaiian" refers to a specific ethnic group. Those of us who live in Hawa'i, but are not Hawaiian are referred to as "Hawai'i Residents" or "Kamaaina." We don't say we are Hawaiian....we are,"from Hawai'i."
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
Captaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5116 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2408 times:
Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter): What self-respecting native hawaian is patronising Go! and do they feel bad aboput doing so?
Aloha went under for many reason, GO not really being the principal one.
What's more, technically Go! is as American as Aloha or vice versa.. It is almost like telling a Charlotte resident if the given the option of flying Alaska Airlines, they should only support US Airways. IMHO
Cloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2342 times:
Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 6): Would you pay someone $52,500,000 to someone if you were truly not guilty??
Yes, if I thought it would avoid a lengthy and expensive court battle. It doesn't take long to build up costs over 2.5 million in a lawsuit between two corporations. This is happening every day somewhere in America. There are plenty of cases where companies have believed themselves to be in the right, but have given settlements. I would venture to say that this is the motivation behind most lawsuits today - simple extortion. Even if you win as a defendant in litigation, you have lost. You have lost court costs. You have lost the legal fees. There are all sorts of nasty, hidden costs associated with the discovery(preperation) phase of a lawsuit. Worse still, your top level employees will have to spend time dealing with the lawsuit, and spend less time running the business. You can be forced to spend half your time every business day answering questions from the plaintiff's attorney. Under oath, for the public record. Many lawsuits of this type are intended for the sole purpose of distracting a competitor in this way.
Not to diss the legal system. It does come up with the correct result most of the time it a case is taken all the way to verdict+appeals. Most abusers of the legal system arn't actually trying to fool a judge or jury. They are simply taking advantage of the fact that the system is so darn difficult and expensive. They want to use the system to extort money or information, or to impose costs on the other party. They don't need an actual verdict or even the slightest hint of a case to do this - they can start doing damage from the moment the papers are filed. And when the lawyers that file these sorts of cases ARE proved wrong in court, they don't go bankrupt. Generally, they pay a few fees and walk away to the next victim.
Pohakuloa From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2207 times:
Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 6): As a side note....I see someone wearing the "NO Aloha in the Hawaiian skies....boycott go!" shirts almost every day.
"No Aloha In the Hawaiian skies, go! figure (boycott!)" On the front says fly Hawaiian
hey Aloha73G, if this is the shirt you are referring to and want one, I can make it happen. and no it is not (atleast directly) from HA or an employee of them!! I'm getting one big enough for me! (man thats a lot of material!)
I do agree that Aloha did kill Aloha when all is said and done. go! did just hasten the process.
I find it funny that even though Mesa is shutting down all of its "non-profitable" operations all over the place to save money, they refuse to shut down their Hawaii operation which can't be doing well at all regardless of their numbers post AQ.
WHEN Mesa goes under they will likely blame everything else BUT the Hawaii operation. If Mesa has any shot of surviving as a whole, The Hawaii operation needs to either shut down, or make some sort of drastic change (be it larger jets, lower frequency, switching to turbo props, etc.).
Unless changed, I'll give both the go! operation 6 months to a year with the fall of Mesa concurrently or shortly thereafter.