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Central American Aviation Thread - Part XIX  
User currently offlineViaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2126 posts, RR: 8
Posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 13651 times:




So the previous incarnation of our regional thread had undoubtedly become stale after almost four months, two-hundred some odd posts, and over four days of inactivity.

Anyway, in keeping with the ongoing tradition of featuring a particular beer or spirituous drink from somewhere in the region with every addition to this thread series, I would have to say this La "Toña" (imported from Nicaragua and now on Costa Rican store shelves) is pretty good stuff.

On the local aviation news front... Alterra Partners (the infamous consortium in charge of renovating and operating SJO for the last several years) is reportedly set to sell its shares in the airport project to the Houston Airport System Development Corporation (HASDC) after failing to complete its revamp. Last week, however, a senior IATA official was quoted in La Nacion as saying this "would be tremendously detrimental to Costa Rica, aviation, airlines, and passengers." He then went on to say HASDC has engaged in "abusive, monopolistic, and threatening practices with respect to the airlines" at UIO (where the company has apparently been doing business for some time) and alledgedly converted that airport "into one of the most expensive in Latin America."

The good news is that should the SJO takeover be approved by the Contraloria General de la Republica (Costa Rica's Office of the Comptroller General) these Houston boys are offering to complete all pending construction work within a year. From our spectator standpoint, we can only hope they're not full of shiat like Alterra was.

 spin 


Entre le fort et le faible c’est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit.
204 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13633 times:

Just saw what was said about SJO's "new managers" and I frankly only have to ask myself how long would Costa Rica afford wasting too much money and resources re-vamping SJO when what San José and most Costarrican population need is a brand new international airport (around Cartago?).
City airports are very conveninent, but as soon as they run out of room to grow, they become a nightmare for both passengers and airlines.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4517 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13615 times:

Let's keep on rolling the new edition...




.

Quoting Viaggiare (Thread starter):
He then went on to say HASDC has engaged in "abusive, monopolistic, and threatening practices with respect to the airlines" at UIO (where the company has apparently been doing business for some time) and allegedly converted that airport "into one of the most expensive in Latin America."

"Quiport" is the commercial name for the entity which is currently developing UIO.
By 2006, those travelers who left UIO must pay around [$32 - $36] for the usage of their facilities there.




.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 1):
Costa Rica afford wasting too much money and resources re-vamping SJO when what San José and most Costarrican population need is a brand new international airport (around Cartago?).

Cartago and surroundings are not feasible for the development of a new airport that could replace SJO due mainly to topographic constraints and the lack of proper ways of communication with the capital.
By 1991, there were some talks about a new airport located in Orotina, Alajuela that might take over SJO. Nevertheless, the idea was abandoned in favour of the development of LIR, 15 years backward.
The dump project was involved with the highway Ciudad Colon - Orotina that ironically is not operating yet.
Just another shameful chapter in the history of transportation of Costa Rica.  Sad

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13610 times:

So places with airfields already (in operation or not used) somewhat near SJO like MRSG Santa Clara Guapíles and XQP Quepos which seem to have plenty of room for a decent size airport would be out of the question as locations for the new SJO?
I'm pretty sure there could be investors interested in a LCC-type airport for SJO given what currently can and can't be done @ SJO.
If Panama City even with impressive PTY has 3 airports in operation, I couldn't see why San José can't support 3 airports in operation too..



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineViaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2126 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 13595 times:



Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 2):
talks about a new airport located in Orotina, Alajuela that might take over SJO. Nevertheless, the idea was abandoned

SJO opened for business exactly fifty years ago (1958) and will reach the end of its usable life in twelve years (2020). The current master plan calls for limited airport expansion and all general aviation ops to move elsewhere (SYQ?) by 2010. Making matters even worse, SYQ operates at close to maximum capacity as it is already.

With completion of the new San Jose-Ciudad Colon-Orotina-Puerto Caldera highway expected in two years, there is reason to believe a new airport will eventually be built (either in Cascajal de Orotina or in Las Mesas de Orotina) within ten to fifteen years.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 3):
somewhat near SJO like MRSG Santa Clara Guapíles and XQP Quepos which seem to have plenty of room for a decent size airport would be out of the question as locations for the new SJO?

I would say those options -if you can call them that- will remain off the table. Wager all your chips in Orotina and in the Valle de Sierpe area (near the biodiversity-rich Osa peninsula) when you're talking about new airport construction.

What else does my faded crystal ball say? 1) LIR shall continue to prosper for as long as an adequate supply of potable water reaches the high-end resorts along the Guanacaste coastline. 2) LIO might stand a chance once JAPDEVA's dock workers unions join the extinct dodo bird. 3) SJO is inexorably destined to become a scheduled domestic hub and general aviation facility someday. 4) SYQ will eventually be joining the dock workers unions and the dodo bird.



Entre le fort et le faible c’est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit.
User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6186 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 13566 times:

I would agree that a new SJO is in order.


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineViaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2126 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 13522 times:



Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 5):
I would agree that a new SJO is in order.

And like I said it's gonna happen. Just not anytime soon.



Entre le fort et le faible c’est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit.
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 13506 times:

Here in PTY rumors are that AA DFW flight isn't performing as good as expected.
I think it's poor marketing from AA part, as I'm pretty sure one of the reasons behind the DFW flight was to free seats on the MIA flights and make them available for premium fare MIA traffic.
Also, the DFW flight doesn't offer immediate connections @ DFW with AA DFW-NRT flight, something which could improve somewhat the DFW flight yields.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4517 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13505 times:

I've just noticed that Guatemala City and Tegucigalpa have their main airports centralized in the mere core of the downtown. GUA is expanding successfully and it demonstrates that an airport can prosper properly in the heart of the city. Sao Paulo Congonhas, Mexico City and Quito are also getting their airports concentrated in downtown and there are no intentions to move them in short-term.
The disadvantage is the huge negative impact to the nearby community: noise, air pollution, usage of the soil in the surroundings areas, new buildings with limited heights, control of water originated from rain and the direct risk of incidents.
On the other hand, the main structures of both Panama City and San Salvador have had a different model where their airports are notably spaced from the downtown and easily connected through proper highways, adding that they are placed practically at sea level, few weather restrictions throughout the year and so on. Their plans related to expansion would not be affected substantially for extreme regulations based on the free-space allowance there.




.
Can the Central American market-share afford the full low-cost carrier [LCC] model at this time ?
Neither of the regional airports have officially reached at least four millions of passengers per year and the alternative airports targeting for LCC-operations usually managed a sizeable volume of traffic instead:

TLC as back-up for MEX: Volaris, Interjet, Alma, Avolar...
FLL as back-up for MIA: jetBlue, Spirit, AirTran, Southwest...
STN as back-up for LHR and LGW: Ryanair, Easyjet, jet2, Air Berlin, Germanwings...

The LCC-model is apparently working well in Central America regarding the behavior of NK here. They are utilizing the main airports in the isthmus and they are consolidating their operations here, despite the commercial strategy done for their competitors.




.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 3):
So places with airfields already (in operation or not used) somewhat near SJO like MRSG Santa Clara Guapíles and XQP Quepos which seem to have plenty of room for a decent size airport would be out of the question as locations for the new SJO?

XQP is out of the equation because the ground transfer to the capital means around four hours and 40 kilometers of them run through a mountain road.
Guapiles is separated at least 65 kilometers from downtown San Jose and it spends 75 minutes driving in average. The highway crosses the Braulio Carrillo National Park meaning environmental issues and sometimes it suffers grounded-sliding that blocked the road, especially during the heavy rainy season.
Back to the current situation, a traffic jam may imply up to one hour driving from San Jose downtown to SJO and being spaced about 20 kilometers.
The traveling time is a sensitive variable for the development of any airport. For example, Viracopos is not acting as an alternative airport for Sao Paulo area at this time, despite the congestion in both GRU and CGH.
Those airports focusing exclusively for LCCs are excluded from this point of view.




.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 3):
If Panama City even with impressive PTY has 3 airports in operation, I couldn't see why San José can't support 3 airports in operation too..

The model for Panama City looks like different regarding the existence of Tocumen, Paitilla and Balboa.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the former US Howard Base [BLB Balboa nowadays] was created for military protection of the Canal Zone. When the US authorities left the area, the airport was controlled by the Government of Panama and it's now basically utilized for international pleasure travelers.




.

Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 4):
With completion of the new San Jose-Ciudad Colon-Orotina-Puerto Caldera highway expected in two years, there is reason to believe a new airport will eventually be built (either in Cascajal de Orotina or in Las Mesas de Orotina) within ten to fifteen years.

Excellent, the project is still alive !
IMHO, it's the best geographical chance for a new project concerning to San Jose.
I hope that local regulators don't stretch the capacity of SJO and materialize a new airport in the forthcoming years.




.

Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 4):
LIR shall continue to prosper

I think so. LIR is getting its own master plan and the expansion is a given. The area is mostly free of hurdles and may not represent an issue against that possibility.
The photo dated on March 01st illustrates the zones that can be easily developed in the future.

Big version: Width: 1600 Height: 1200 File size: 452kb


Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineSnaiks From Panama, joined Mar 2005, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 13424 times:



Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 4):
With completion of the new San Jose-Ciudad Colon-Orotina-Puerto Caldera highway expected in two years, there is reason to believe a new airport will eventually be built (either in Cascajal de Orotina or in Las Mesas de Orotina) within ten to fifteen years.

how far is that from the City? how much time will it take to drive? will it have a cost to use a highway?
i think thye should consider all of that


User currently offlineViaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2126 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 13397 times:



Quoting Snaiks (Reply 9):
how far is that from the City? how much time will it take to drive? will it have a cost to use a highway?

Approximately 45 miles from downtown San Jose, or about a 50-minute drive. Toll (estimated) for automobiles and other two-axle vehicles: US$ 2.70. Completion is set for July of 2010.



Entre le fort et le faible c’est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit.
User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6186 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 13337 times:

Well folks...cutbacks have begun here in BZE...CO and AA have both just announced that they will be trimming one daily flight each from IAH and MIA June 1.....this usually doesn't happen until Sept/Oct....

This is definitely going to raise their yields as there will now be undersupply in these markets....especially during the VFR summer travel season...DL & /TA could benefit...as come hell or high water....folks want to go to NYC and LA.

Guess I will have to do my summer bookings sooner.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineViaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2126 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 13312 times:



Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 11):
CO and AA have both just announced that they will be trimming one daily flight each from IAH and MIA June 1

So this leaves BZE with a single daily flight each to/from IAH and MIA for the next few months? Are those your only two U.S. gateways?



Entre le fort et le faible c’est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit.
User currently offlineBelizexp From Belize, joined Dec 2005, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 13298 times:



Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 12):
So this leaves BZE with a single daily flight each to/from IAH and MIA for the next few months? Are those your only two U.S. gateways?

No DFW, EWR, CLT and ATL.....



Belize my home sweet home...
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4517 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13288 times:

The red star features the estimated location for the proposed new airport that might attend San Jose in long-term.
The influence of the Pacific coast may generate better weather conditions than the current place for SJO.
Diversions due to horrible meteorological parameters are quite often during the rainy season in Costa Rica.

Big version: Width: 122 Height: 124 File size: 6kb





.

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 11):
CO and AA have both just announced that they will be trimming one daily flight each from IAH and MIA June 1.....this usually doesn't happen until Sept/Oct....

As a matter of fact, the US carriers adjust their frequencies to demand in our region.
From June to August the amount of weekly flights rises notably as it decreases from September up to November included.
Some of them don't operate selected segments year-round.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6186 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 13221 times:



Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 12):
So this leaves BZE with a single daily flight each to/from IA

No on weekends (sat/sun) it was 3XIAH...so by trimming one it is 2XSat/Sun, 1XM-F......



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4517 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 13166 times:



Quoting Belizexp (Reply 13):
DFW, EWR, CLT and ATL.....

What happened with DL BZE-LAX ?




.

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 15):
on weekends (sat/sun) it was 3XIAH...so by trimming one it is 2XSat/Sun

CO is also setting a particular schedule in Roatan, Honduras where CO IAH-RTB is 4x weekly: a couple of flights on Saturdays and a sole flight on Thursdays and Sundays respectively.




.
Discussion about meals on TACA:
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/3988778/




.
Continental to divest shares on Copa Airlines:
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/3989303/

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6186 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 13082 times:



Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 16):
What happened with DL BZE-LAX ?

only lasted 6 weeks....were supposed to bring it back but didn't..with 0 marketing....by the time everyone found out about the flight it had already been scrapped....people were paying double to go to LAX through IAH and DFW because they didn't know DL had a n/s


On another note...DL are dropping from 5X to 3X BZE-ATL.....



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 13068 times:

Video of the new north terminal at PTY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImhPiUZfoGE


User currently offlineSnaiks From Panama, joined Mar 2005, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 13064 times:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4000044/

Continental sells the rest of their shares.


also CM recieved its 13th ERJ

Quote:
PANAMA CITY, May 21 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Copa Airlines, a subsidiary of Copa Holdings, S.A. (NYSE: CPA - News) announced delivery of its 13th EMBRAER-190 aircraft. The airline's fleet, one of the youngest in the region, now has 39 aircraft and is expected to expand to 43 aircraft by the end of 2008. In addition to its EMBRAER-190 aircraft, Copa Airlines operates 26 Boeing 737 Next Generation aircraft.


from Yahoo finance
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080521/mxw003.html?.v=61


User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 13049 times:



Quoting Luisca (Reply 18):
Video of the new north terminal at PTY

Beautiful, but where is that concourse going to be built? North of the current terminal building there are 2 brand new useless airport administration buildings (the airport administration should have been located at the old terminal), an airport fire station and the "Presidential" terminal (which should better be located at the Servicio Aereo facilities at the old terminal).
If that North coucourrse is going to be located between the 2 runways, close to the current main terminal or close to the old terminal, how are the passengers going to get to/from that new concourse?



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 13040 times:

It should be connected to satellite A (north satellite) It will have 12 jetbridges, 2 of them for Heavy aircraft, one of them will be A380 capable. I think the "presidential terminal" (what a joke) is going away, transient GA parking is being relocated and the apron will be expanded. Also 3R will be lengthened to 13000 feet and 3L will get ILS.

User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4517 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 12985 times:



Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 17):
people were paying double to go to LAX through IAH and DFW because they didn't know DL had a n/s

I realized that DL LAX-MGA, DL GUA-JFK, DL PTY-JFK and the mentioned DL BZE-LAX are discontinuing their allocations year-round due probably to inconvenient loads in order to sustain a profitable venture there.
The merger DL-NW has suggested the opening of new Central American routes from the current bases of NW such as MEM Memphis, DTW Detroit and MSP Minneapolis. Nonetheless, I highly doubt that DL can do it successfully because they have not steadily supported other consolidated US markets as LAX and JFK and pointing to the Central American bound.
By the way, NW has served before MSP-LIR seasonally with 319. The service was available during the Saturdays.




.
"The EMBRAER-190 aircraft not only play an important role in the expansion of our route network, they are also environmentally friendly as these fuel- efficient aircraft help reduce greenhouse gas emissions," said Pedro Heilbron, CEO, Copa Airlines.
From: Copa Airlines Continues Fleet Expansion. May 21st 2008.


SJOtoLIR's statement: CM has wisely chosen the Embraer 190-100 AR series which allow a better performance regarding their three different models. That's why they quite often stretch the usage of such planes launching long-routes as PTY-GDL and PTY-MAO.
The E190-100 AR is capable to fly up to 2400 nm comfortably and distributed in two classes: 84 seats in Y as well as 10 in J.
For the time being where the petroleum has hit up to $130 per barrel, the utilization of fuel-efficient planes is a smart solution to obtain better yields for the airlines.




.
Some thoughts about the proposed north terminal building at PTY:

Big version: Width: 204 Height: 233 File size: 13kb

1. Isn't the old terminal being utilized as the current cargo and maintenance area ? If so, this couldn't be the best location for the new building.
2. The new terminal looks like well positioned in this place which is apparently free of obstacles that may undermine its onward development.
3. The connection between these buildings may block the current access to runway 03L/21R.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12901 times:

Helicopter crashes in Calidonia, Panama City.
An helicopter belonging to Servicio Aereo Nacional crashed on a store in Panama City Calidonia commercial area.
For those who know Panama City, the helicopter went down in front of Machetazo Calidonia.
There are injured and fatalities.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineAirplane From Ecuador, joined Sep 2004, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 12875 times:



Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 2):
"Quiport" is the commercial name for the entity which is currently developing UIO.
By 2006, those travelers who left UIO must pay around [$32 - $36] for the usage of their facilities there.

I actually miss those days because now is about $43 and change. They nearly charge for the air you breath. And the airport looks like a hounted house.
The new airport to open in 2011 is another pool of corruption its about 480 millon dollars and it wont have a category 3 ILS, its has the same number of jetways as the current airport, the area is always covered by low clouds and an aircraft runway overun will be accompanied by a deadly catastrofy due that it has a hell of a cliff and the end.

JP



The sky´s the limit
25 Aer : Just heard the sad news, Interjet will be dropping the route GUA - TLC sad loss for GUA and prices to MEX now'll go up.
26 SJOtoLIR : However, CM has not officially unveiled any intended new city in short-term, unless they're rather focusing for either the renewal of their fleet or
27 2travel2know : Panama City Helicopter crash update: Panamanian TV-Station Telemetro reported that the Servicio Aereo Nacional SAN-100 helicopter needed spare parts u
28 Post contains links Luisca : I am afraid this is going to be another Punta Mala helicopter type scandal, and now you got the international press reporting on it. RIP to the victi
29 2travel2know : Whenever there are foreigners involved, the government doesn't act carelessfully. From what I gather the official Chilean delegation was actually on
30 Carmenlu15 : Whaaaa? I had already heard rumors, but their sales reps were here just last weekend and swore that was not the case...
31 Post contains links Carmenlu15 : And in more news: http://www.oem.com.mx/eloccidental/notas/n716911.htm So far, no fatalities reported... more as it comes.
32 Luisca : bad week in central america
33 Post contains links and images Viaggiare : Is it a reasonable expectation that a bucket of paint will be used to cover the TACA titles sometime tonight?
34 SJOtoLIR : If I'm not confusing the area, it took place in the mere downtown of the city and alongside Peru Avenue which is plenty of hotels and related commerc
35 2travel2know : It happened on Via Central España corner with Calle Q, Avenida Perú runs pararell to Vía España right in that area. Machetazo Calidonia is a whol
36 Post contains links Viaggiare : La Nacion is reporting 23 Costa Rican citizens were onboard. They all had connected from LR622.
37 SJOtoLIR : TACA Regional regularly flies SAP-TGU with ATR-42. The flight arrives at 19:55. They will start shortly a new operation linking SAL-TGU with such equi
38 HB-IWC : KLM B747 on the way to PTY Friday night's KL758 PTY AMS was cancelled because of a technical problem. MD11 PH-KCH is currently in PTY and will be ferr
39 SJOtoLIR : I keep on repeating that PTY is acting as a focus airport for those SkyTeam passengers heading to Europe and coming mostly from Central America and C
40 Viaggiare : Although I did post some (translated) excerpts elsewhere in this forum, here's the full transcript -in its original Spanish- of that otherwise routine
41 2travel2know : Strange SkyTeam associate CM/P5 doesn't offer connections with AF in BOG.
42 Viaggiare : CM 825 COPA TEGUCIGALPA TGU 3:27PM A tiempo Puerta 12 So I take it this flight actually departed from that airfield formerly known as Palmerola AFB in
43 Copa737DFW : I see flight 2101 leaving almost full most days in June. I think that the DFW-PTY flight should be seasonal from Dec.-April and June-Aug. How is the
44 SJOtoLIR : TACA 390 did practice the approach to runway 02 due to poor weather conditions on runway 20. . The choice was the inconvenient tailwind landing on ru
45 2travel2know : I would love to see AA PTY-DFW depart PTY 0600-0645 when the U.S. goes back to Standardtime, since It would allow immediate connection with DFW-NRT.
46 SJOtoLIR : AA Central America-DFW seems rather to diversify loads from the profitable routes supplied by AA Central America-MIA. Those OneWorld passengers origi
47 Yellowtail : Got a rare treat yesterday...a TA 321 on BZE-IAH.
48 Post contains links 2travel2know : CM twice daily PTY-SAP !! CM is to move its PTY-SJO-TGU flight to SAP while the Honduran authorities are to fix Palmerola XPL for commercial traffic a
49 SJOtoLIR : Copa Airlines will launch a new frequency to Caracas and consequently the segment will be served thrice a day. CM 224........PTY 10:05.........CCS 12:
50 2travel2know : 2nd Helicopter accident in Panama City in less than a week. Today at 12:45h a private helicopter crashed at Panama City Albrook PAC airport. No deaths
51 Viaggiare : Well, I guess a recent Agencia EFE wire answers my question: "Los vuelos internacionales han sido trasladados a San Pedro Sula, mientras entra en ser
52 2travel2know : And after the international flights are moved to Palmerola, how long would it take the Honduran government to finally widen the road between Teguciga
53 SJOtoLIR : Continental Airlines is deploying regularly the Boeing 737-900 is several routes in the area: CO IAH-PTY, CO IAH-SAL and CO IAH-SJO. It should be note
54 Viaggiare : Honduran officials are apparently moving forward with plans to build a four-lane highway between Tegucigalpa and Comayagua. My understanding is that
55 Yellowtail : BZE too...I flew it 2 months ago.
56 SJOtoLIR : The major disadvantage for the airport in Palmerola is the distance from Tegucigalpa. According to previous inputs, it's roughly separated 75 kilomete
57 Viaggiare : They'll have to make up their minds within the next two months, but it's either going to be XPL/MHPA (based on the Palmerola name) or ENQ/MHSC (based
58 SJOtoLIR : Copa Airlines takes delivery of its seventh 160-seater Boeing 737-800 and configured as 144 passengers in Y and 16 in J. At this time, CM utilizes the
59 Viaggiare : Also on one of their three evening PTY-SJO flights (CM403) they use a 738 which remains overnight at SJO and flies back (CM404) to Tocumen the follow
60 Snaiks : apparently CM 643 from PTY to MDE had to turn around becuase there was an engine problem, they still dont know if they are leaving tonight. I heard CM
61 Viaggiare : I have nothing on it thus far, but isn't this an AeroRepublica flight?
62 Snaiks : yes, it has a CM flight number, but its operated by Aero republica
63 Aer : Hey just a quick question, how are TGU schedules looking like for now? And btw, Interjet has left GUA ok, moving on, next airline for GUA; please, we
64 Viaggiare : How would you characterize the job that is being done by INGUAT? After several very enjoyable visits I can attest to the enormous tourism potential y
65 Post contains images SJOtoLIR : The private helicopter that crashed on June 04th when trying to land at PAC was an Eulette III belonging to the aerial taxi named Helipan Corp. The h
66 2travel2know : So no SAL-TGU-SAL flights w/ATR for TA now ?
67 SJOtoLIR : TGU has temporarily cancelled all their international flights until further warning. Prior to the accident of May 30th, TA had established the openin
68 Carmenlu15 : It is published and can be booked in the GDS, starting July 2nd: AA 993 Dep. MIA 0800 Arr. GUA 0840 AA 994 Dep. GUA 0950 Arr. MIA 1420
69 Aer : Well the current administration is realy not doing anything as tourism isn't not one of the government's "priorities" like with the last administrati
70 2travel2know : How interesting the strange reaction from the Honduran government to cancell international flights @ TGU, even if flown in prop-planes. With that mov
71 SJOtoLIR : Thanks for the information ! Checking carefully the source, the third AA MIA-GUA will work seasonally from July 02nd till September 02nd with 738 equ
72 Yellowtail : well TA cancelled my BZE-SAL flight yesterday....because of "storms at IAH".....more like they didn't want to stop at BZE on the way back! And they wo
73 Viaggiare : Sad, but then folks elsewhere are having it tougher. According to the Asociacion Nacional de Agencias de Viajes de Honduras, folks in the eastern and
74 2travel2know : I think that's what would happen. AA, CO, CM will operate out of XPL, while TA will operate out of TGU with ATR. There's international traffic in TGU
75 Mt99 : You guys have issues. Between your comments here and your comments on the TACA accident sounds like you are almost glad that TACA had an accident. I
76 Yellowtail : I did not make a comment on the TA accident...if fact I even refrained from replying to the comment about 'painting out the titles" a la Frederico Bl
77 Post contains links and images Viaggiare : Investment? Somehow I was under the impression that the US$30 million used to build Palmerola were put up solely by taxpayers in the United States. I
78 2travel2know : That's entirely true, but if the road from Tegucigalpa to Palmerola is to be widen and a international terminal with separate apron area away from th
79 Viaggiare : This is almost surreal. Someone here -I'm not gonna say who- made an unnecessarily aggressive and offensive remark (on that accident thread) directed
80 Viaggiare : All right, I see your point.
81 Mt99 : Thats pretty much standard operating procedure after a crash. I have seen several instances in which that has been done
82 Post contains images Mt99 : "Legitimate" is in the eye of the beholder... If you think claims are legitimized by forwarded-type emails then that your prerogative.. If you are wi
83 SJOtoLIR : I would differ partially in such regard. The main Honduran centers of economic activities are concentrated in San Pedro Sula, Tegucigalpa, La Ceiba,
84 Post contains images Yellowtail : Amen...and you have been added to my Respected Users list! Correction: You had already been added for previous noteworthy comments [Edited 2008-06-12
85 SJOtoLIR : I would try to elaborate that a bit more: International flights out of SAP: AA SAP-MIA...................14x weekly..........738 CO SAP-IAH..........
86 Yellowtail : not really CentAm related...but CO has dropped IAH-CLO after sticking it out for a LONG LONG TIME....guess they will send the traffic via CM and PTY
87 2travel2know : That's exactly what CM/CO had originally planned, to provide connections to/from CM Colombian destinations for CO IAH/EWR flights. This would be the
88 2travel2know : Funny thing I saw on CM's website today, CM has promotional fares from Tegucigalpa ! Do the people @ CM who decide which promotional fares to show on
89 SJOtoLIR : I can almost remember this flight during the 727 era and more than 12 years backward. If I recall correctly, some routes were CO IAH-SJO-CLO 4x weekl
90 Viaggiare : Whoa, that's great news! We could really use another carrier with a strong presence throughout the west coast of North America. Should this eventuall
91 Aer : Hey guys, just to let you know on an interesting piece of information. I was trying to make a reservation on United.com for GUA - LAX in december. How
92 SJOtoLIR : I think so. NK FLL-SJO 7x weekly initiated their operations on April 05th 2007 with the famous supply of tickets at $0,08. They also launched an extr
93 Mt99 : I was in GUA a last week - and i dont know if was the time (early morning, and late night) - but it seemed awfully quiet and a LOT of empty gates The
94 Aer : Hehehe I guess they are trying to give it an Antigua Guatemala feel, next time you'll have church ruins and all hehe. I spoke to a friend that works
95 SJOtoLIR : UA GUA-LAX and back will end up on September 01st. They dropped UA SAL-LAX on March 01st. Regards.
96 Viaggiare : And unless the Grenada Football Association has its own charter arrangements, I wonder how their national team will get here to wrap up the two-match
97 Mt99 : If only!.. Antigua is so beautiful!! But seriously - how about flashlights?
98 Yellowtail : My friend Hummingbird (in the Caribbean Forum) has posted these DEC figures for BZE TA seems to be doing a bit better...though this includes the traff
99 Viaggiare : Not bad at all, despite a nonexistent marketing campaign and schedule changes every six weeks or so.
100 SJOtoLIR : During December it's presumable to expect a healthy measurement of the load factors in the entire regional markets, due to the beginning of the Chris
101 Yellowtail : And with that stuff it could be mainline all week! not some cramped 3 hour CR7 and Even though it is only a CR7 and sometimes a MD80 ...and sometimes
102 Viaggiare : As in being argumentative and contentious, you mean? Oh, perhaps a vestige of that pernicious law school deformation. Or are you somehow suggesting..
103 Yellowtail : To quote this great forum. "This forum is as good as you make it. Never post a message in anger. Take the high road and others will follow." or in yo
104 SJOtoLIR : With respect to previous movements at BZE, a similar behavior is observed in the operations aiming to Miami and Houston: ..Filter period.............
105 Viaggiare : I'm definitely getting a reputation around here...... But often times it's me who keeps a prudent distance, you know.
106 Yellowtail : Yes, IAH has taken over as the USA gateway of choice for some time now.... Me, I much prefer IAH...MIA is just dreary. Most of that MIA traffic is O&
107 Viaggiare : What a madhouse that place has become! Some folks down here -myself included- are beginning to appreciate FLL as an alternative, thanks to both NK an
108 Post contains links MAH4546 : Whats the deal with all these TACA flights now in Amadeus?!? TA8000 BZE0600 - 0705MEX D 319 TA8001 MEX0800 - 1400MIA D 320 TA8002 MIA0730 - 1000MEX 31
109 Viaggiare : Some of those routing-equipment type combinations don't make much sense. Come to think of it... this might be indicative of some bold prank successfu
110 MAH4546 : Concourse J - used by TACA but not American - is anything but a madhouse. It's probably one of the most relaxing and efficient international terminal
111 Yellowtail : I don't drink beer (moved on to whiskey) and I don't go to Manatee Lookout. I go fishing instead! But yeah..strange....
112 Yellowtail : Posted in a separate thread, but no one seems to be reading it so will put in i nthe thread of record! There was a aviation forum this week in Belize
113 2travel2know : My guess is that if CM flies to BZE, it'll be as a GUA tag-on. Maybe awful times to land or depart BZE but would allow connections to/fr KIN and POS
114 Post contains links Tomascubero : Yes, I got the flights: LR 8692 12Jun08 SJO 1025 1610 GND LR 8693 12Jun08 GND 1700 1824 SJO LR 8692 14Jun08 SAL 1403 2025 GND LR 8693 14Jun08 GND 214
115 Yellowtail : Would work 100%...lots of traffic to GUA...and PTY...and a fair amount to S. America that would like to avoid MIA.
116 SJOtoLIR : Some of those are not necessarily displayed as non-stops: TA8001 MEX0800 - 1400MIA D 320 TA8004 MIA0730 - 1100FRS1230 This is not the first time that
117 Yellowtail : FRS-BZE are no longer operated by Tropic and Maya...at least at last check they weren't..some paperwork issue. It was also operated by Tikal Jets in
118 SJOtoLIR : CO expanded its South American coverage by means of the code-share agreement with CM. The next pairs have been added to its network: CM PTY-COR and ba
119 Post contains links 2travel2know : The 1st step before CM can announce PTY-YYZ Panama and Canada agree on new bilateral (from La Prensa, in Spanish) This would mean that CM won't be lim
120 Viaggiare : As it turns out, about half the team -those that had U.S. visas- arrived via AA (GND-SJU-MIA-SJO) while the rest came in via CM (POS-PTY-SJO).
121 Aer : Just to expand this issue, it wasn't a unilateral action. When a country is certified Cat I, companies from a Cat II country must file extra paperwor
122 Yellowtail : Actually from what I understand...paperwork at Belize end is complete too...but that there is "technicality" holding up the lodging of it in Guate...
123 Post contains links Mt99 : Interesting article about TACA and the price of oil.. http://www.elsalvador.com/mwedh/nota...pleta.asp?idCat=6342&idArt=2515744 Some things said: - If
124 Viaggiare : And it quotes the capo himself as saying BZE contributes an average of only seven pax daily.
125 Yellowtail : Maybe it should be SEVENTY...that would SOUND more accurate. My gestimate is that it is probably R/T av 20 pax BZE-IAH &, 40paxBZE-SAL, yeilds are ex
126 Mt99 : Id say that it is 70. The newspaper (if you can call them that) missed a zero.
127 Yellowtail : Even the figures for TGU, SAP, GUA look off...how many were on that TA flight involved in the incident the other day? Definitely more than 42 ..even i
128 Viaggiare : All right, and figures for the other stations --GUA (57), TGU (42), and SAP (32)-- sound about right? Perhaps there were other (more reliable) media
129 Yellowtail : Deleted ...sorry I pressed post message twice...see next post![Edited 2008-06-20 13:00:20]
130 Yellowtail : Maybe TA is just fudging the truth to try to wring savings from the airports / respective tourism agencies. They aren't called the Parrot Cartel for n
131 Viaggiare : I came across something funny (and pretty cool) the other day, while browsing through a Honduran civil/military aviation forum... "Si se pone a volar
132 SJOtoLIR : The yields are higher on CM meaning that their operative costs have been pretty optimized. Possible explanation: The suitability of their E90s. . Onc
133 Mt99 : I think CM also might have a higher number of business passengers. Those figures might be cooked many ways. Although the plane betweeen GUA-SAL might
134 SJOtoLIR : Delta will drop LAX-GUA. Last plane out of GUA: August 18th. DL has cut several routes departing from ATL, SLC, BOS, MCO, JFK and LAX due mainly to th
135 Carmenlu15 : Hmm... The DL sales rep that visited us a couple of weeks ago said it was only seasonal... actually the flight appears to be back on December 5th (no
136 Post contains images Viaggiare : Yeah, that's how I understood it myself. Not to sound cynical, but I remember Yellowtail once blasted DL for creating similar expectations about LAX-
137 Post contains links and images SJOtoLIR : Yes, these services out of GUA are even bookable on reliable sources. Nevertheless, it's contradictory regarding recent publications posted by modera
138 Viaggiare : Another domino in a long line that starts in the U.S. (our main source of leisure traffic)... the subprime debacle... nominal housing prices plunge..
139 Yellowtail : Only once? I have blasted many times and will continue to do so, as it was a route that would have worked if DL had just given it some time to work.
140 Viaggiare : Flights involving the TACA REGIONAL brand (those where an ATR-42 is used) between SJO and DAV/MGA have been cancelled for several (consecutive) days.
141 Post contains images SJOtoLIR : I have no idea on it. Service to Managua was scheduled as SJO-MGA-SAL with ATR-42. . LIR couldn't face shortage of space in its intended extension as
142 Post contains links 2travel2know : PTY 18.15% passenger increase over 2007 PTY handled 3.8 million passengers last year and is expected to go over the 5 million passengers this year. PT
143 Viaggiare : Those are excellent figures. Any guesstimate as to how much of that is the CM/P5 network responsible for, and then how much of it is (non-OD) hub tra
144 SJOtoLIR : CO is leading the market-share out of BZE and heading to IAH: .....Filter period..........TA SAL-BZE-IAH...............CO BZE-IAH ..September 2007....
145 Mt99 : Thats is not surprising at all considering that most likely most people traveling thru IAH to BZE are connecting passengers from other CO destination
146 Yellowtail : I think it is a codeshare with UA. but there is a fair amount of IAH originating traffic...
147 Mt99 : Define "fair".. I dont think UA has many flights into IAH to begin with. CO would have many, many more.
148 Viaggiare : CM today announced 5x PTY-CNF effective 8/21. Absolutely, in fact UA serves only three markets nonstop: DEN, ORD, and SFO.[Edited 2008-06-25 18:26:04]
149 SJOtoLIR : IAH is not a base of UA. As a matter of fact, few operations can match TA SAL-BZE-IAH with UA: UA IAH-DEN, UA IAH-IAD, UA IAH-SFO and UA IAH-ORD. Som
150 SJOtoLIR : Correct. IAD-IAH is being operated by the American regional airline "Mesa Airlines" and code-sharing with UA, TA plus other carriers. Regards.
151 2travel2know : I would have expected BSB or SSA before CNF. Lets see how long for TA to announce LIM-CNF.
152 Yellowtail : AA has jsut dropped DFW-SAL....that did not last long. Win for TA at last! AA has also reduced DFW-SJO, CUN and MEX DFW-PTY stays. So no one asks me f
153 Viaggiare : Are you somehow suggesting the parrot cartel can now indulge freely in some good ol' fashioned gouging? Worse yet for travelers, the UA codeshare par
154 Mt99 : Please - If the traveling public would have preferred AA over TACA. Then they would not have canceled their flight. Yes it is. But the traveling publ
155 Yellowtail : Oh lord, must you try to pick a fight with every post. On another note: BZE is finally getting an ILS (from Thales).....due to be installed jsut in t
156 Viaggiare : Please share relevant USDOT data supporting that claim. Again, let's see some evidence for this presumed cause-effect (causal) relationship. Never mi
157 Mt99 : I could. Im sure they are out there somewhere. But im busy right now. Ill look for them if i can. You can look for them too. Ill try to prove that I
158 Yellowtail : Careful they don't see a mirage and die of thirst
159 Post contains links Mt99 : Ok i found this.. For this Calendar year to date (April 2008) the number of TACA's pax has decrased 3.2% when compared to April 2007. For DFW's Fisca
160 Viaggiare : Maybe it's time to call on our own statistics and engineering guru (SJOtoLIR) for assistance. Oh I wouldn't suggest they were making a killing, any m
161 Yellowtail : Strange how they can make DFW-CUN/GUA/BZE/PTY/SJO among others but can't make SAL...
162 Mt99 : Yea maybe he can help us out. And teach us how to do it! Well if they HAD been making a killing (ie they would have had the preference of the traveli
163 Yellowtail : Me too..I thought it would have been a given...to be driven off a route from your hub and that is arguably the biggest hub in the world is not a good
164 Mt99 : Yea. Again like Mr.Viaggare says some DOT figures would be interesting to support this claim. But, if we agree that O&D traffic makes or breaks this
165 Viaggiare : We are fully in agreement there. Do you know whether AA/CO/DL/US cabin crews allow pollo campero meals purchased inside the sterile area at SAL on bo
166 Mt99 : Is there pollo campero the sterile area in SAL? I dont think so.. Its outside on the 3rd floor...
167 Viaggiare : You're right, it's outside the sterile area on the third floor. But do U.S. crews take issue with pax bringing fried chicken on board? And generally
168 Post contains links SJOtoLIR : Update: Since the accident at TGU, TA has modified their services to Honduras meaning a twice daily SAL-TGU with ATR-42 due to the demise of its stel
169 Yellowtail : I would some of these crews might want some of your pollo campero!
170 Mt99 : I dunno - Is it even allowed to go past security? I have nerver take Pollo Campero on an airplane and i pray that i never will have to. Thats and int
171 Viaggiare : "In the mid-1990's, executives at TACA Airlines, the region's dominant carrier, started complaining to Campero executives about the smell of chicken
172 Viaggiare : True, yet members of that same society -including those who reside abroad- seem to be quite supportive of their homeland airline, and willing to trus
173 Mt99 : Not this again.."Trust if with their Lives" What are you implying? Chicagoan's trusted Southwest when it ran out of runway in MDW. Canadians trusted
174 Yellowtail : I did on TA SAL-BZE last month. AGREED! It is a mentality. Well said! Welcome to my RU list!
175 Viaggiare : Hold your horses, let's not get unduly sensitive here now. Rest assured that when something needs to be said, I will invariably proceed in the most e
176 Mt99 : OK ill give you the benefit of the doubt I apologize.
177 Post contains images Viaggiare : Cool. Quoting Rodney King during the 1992 L.A. riots: "...you know, can we all get along?" [Edited 2008-06-27 10:12:15]
178 Belizexp : July 1, 2008 both airlines start flying back to FRS PM schedule to Flores, Guatemala is unchanged as follows: Flight #401 BZE to FRS, departs at 8:30
179 Viaggiare : I was simply overwhelmed by the sheer amount (and complexity) of information available, Max. Adding to the misery is that a .csv to .xls file convert
180 SJOtoLIR : TA has divided their flights heading to the Bay area as TA SAL-OAK commenced on November 16th 2007. The amount of passengers and the percentage of dis
181 2travel2know : What's the reason behind TA SAL-OAK, when they already fly to SFO? CM would be better off flying PTY-IAD June, July, August, December and January onl
182 SJOtoLIR : I've never understood the accurate reasons to split the services. SFO is a base for UA and theoretically UA-TA could benefit themselves when they're
183 Mt99 : No converter is necessary. Excel can read .csv files.
184 Copa737DFW : AA DFW-PTY is now going to be once a week, DFW-PTY sat and PTY-DFW sun, starting sometime in November...
185 Yellowtail : You beat me to the news.... Guess the requisite money has changed hands.
186 2travel2know : The CO - CM agreement have a clause about CM and CO not flying the same routes. This mean that if CM would like to fly to Houston, CM will be forced
187 SJOtoLIR : New flights will start in the forthcoming hours: TACA. Lima - Guatemala City. TA 054.......LIM 10:30.......GUA 14:05......Tu, Th, Sa TA 053.......GUA
188 Post contains links Yellowtail : Well I have been wondering how TA has been hanging onto SAL-BZE-IAH....looks like the answer lies in Cargo. Stats...sorry you will have to page throug
189 SJOtoLIR : Same goes to the RON allocation AA DFW-CCS 1x weekly. Some guys in the forum have commented that AA DFW-CCS is ranked as its poorest Latin American r
190 Yellowtail : Nevertheless..I think AA want to hang onto this valuable authorization for the future...
191 2travel2know : It'll be almost impossible for AA to get any other flights to Venezuela, given the kind of government that country has rightnow. So that's the main r
192 Viaggiare : I wasn't aware of this one... MX379 (MEX-GUA-SJO) arrived at 15:15 this afternoon. The return flight MX378 (SJO-GUA-MEX) was originally scheduled to d
193 Juanchito : Whether isn't that bad at this moment in GUA but there have been complete country blackout, maybe that could be the problem. Juanchito
194 SJOtoLIR : MX MEX-GUA-SJO 3x weekly acts as a complement for MX SJO-MEX 7x weekly and MX GUA-MEX 14x weekly. It was initially scheduled last year as MX MEX-GUA-
195 Viaggiare : Hello, Juanchito. I didn't know MX had an afternoon flight with a stopover in GUA these days! And then there was a pretty nasty thunderstorm this aft
196 Viaggiare : So yeah, that's what threw me off. And wasn't it originally supposed to be a weekend-only flight?
197 SJOtoLIR : Absolutely right ! MX MEX-GUA-SJO-PTY was deployed on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. It was previously mentioned in this thread that the 318 was uti
198 Yellowtail : does anyone have any official news from CM on what their *A plans are?
199 Viaggiare : Honduran media have reportedly obtained the cockpit transcript of TA390. About ninety seconds worth of conversation and automated system call outs are
200 Post contains links Viaggiare : TACA has been slapped with the first lawsuit in a federal district court, following the TA390 crash in Honduras. A Seattle-based law firm specializing
201 Yellowtail : My informal spanish is a little rusty...but I think that about just says it all.
202 Post contains links Viaggiare : Please click HERE for part twenty of this series.
203 Post contains links SJOtoLIR : As far as I know, there is no any update since it was extensively discussed in the next dedicated thread. It's still active. http://www.airliners.net
204 Post contains links Viaggiare : Once again, please click HERE for part twenty of this series....................................
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