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World Airways- Its History As A Scheduled Carrier  
User currently offlineTWA1985 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 651 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5130 times:

Hello Everyone,

I once again have the airline history bug, and this time I was bitten by World Airways. I am particulary interested in the period when they operated as a scheduled carrier.

I understand via my 1985 OAG's that they operated with DC-10-30's early in 1985, but later in the year added the 727-100 and 727-200.

They served cities such as Baltimore, Kansas City, Los Angeles, Oakland, Newark, Frankfury (Germany), and London.

So, as you can see, I know some already, but I want to know more.

What did their fleet consist of throuought their scheduled run?

What cities were served?

How was the inflight service?

Did they use a standard paint scheme on all aircraft? (I only ask this because I noticed that in late 1985 there is a picture of one of their "new" 727-100's and it has a silver and blue livery- was that temporary?)

Where were the crews based?

Did they operate at a loss most of the time?

And.... Anything else you might be able to add.


Thanks a lot.

TWA1985

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTWA1985 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5096 times:

And of course, here is the 1986 World DC-10 Safety Video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZU2NaeBWbEY

TWA1985


User currently offlineTWA1985 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5081 times:

I also came across this World Airways DC-10-30 Seat Map. It is from early 1985 and is called the "Airline Seating Guide." It was published by Carlson Publishing Co. It also includes the seat maps of all the major airlines.


Big version: Width: 2467 Height: 5028 File size: 966kb


User currently offlineTonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1448 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5037 times:

Did the DC-10 have lower deck galleys cos I only see one tiny galley space there?


My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
User currently offlineFRA2DTW From Germany, joined Feb 2004, 322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4985 times:

The period of scheduled service I remember best was in the early to mid-nineties, after World acquired brand-new MD-11 aircraft. They flew out of JFK to Tel Aviv and Johannesburg in South Africa. It lost them a lot of money and I still marvel how Hollis Harris kept them out of bankruptcy. The lack of FF miles and corporate accounts, as well as ineffective marketing were real killers.

Of course, World is still very much in "scheduled service", just not under their own brand. Also, this week their sister airline, North American, will terminate all of their scheduled service to Guyana, Lagos and Accra, due to Delta moving into these markets.


User currently offlineSpartanmjf From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 514 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4917 times:

I will tell you that my wife and I won two roundtrip tickets on World from BWI to FRA as a part of a radio promotion in late 1985 or early 1986, and a very nice person in World's public relations office in California waived some restrictions to allow us to fly in July 1986 - we were using the trip for our honeymoon.

When we arrived at BWI for our flight, expecting a DC10, we were greeted instead by a subleased Skystar International 707 [ex-PA] with a dim, grungy interior and a lot of screaming young children. We made it to FRA, however, and had a great holiday.

When we arrived at FRA about ten days later for our return to the United States we were even more surprised to be passengers on a different 707 - this one was done in a yellow/green interior and had stenciled titles indicating "Tropical Transit" or "Tropical Airways." This a/c was ex-NW and BWIA.

It was fun handpicking our luggage out of a pile, on the tarmac at FRA, to board an aircraft that was parked next to a jet of a Middle Eastern country that had machine gun carrying guards surrounding it.

Photographs of both of these a/c are in the database - search "skystar" and a/c type 707.

My recollection of World scheduled service - having said that, it was a free roundtrip for two to Germany!



"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
User currently offlinePgtravel From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 446 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4859 times:

I know they flew LAX-HNL with DC-10s at some point in the early to mid 80s, because I believe I flew them. Unfortunately, that's all I remember. It's a good thing I was a little kid at the time, because that 3-4-3 layout does NOT look comfortable.

User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1834 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4839 times:

They had DC-10 service between MCI and IAD for a while. I lived in Tulsa at the time, and during a time when I was out of work I considered flying them out here to knock on some doors, but I never did it.

I don't remember any of the other routes.



Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26169 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4817 times:



Quoting FRA2DTW (Reply 4):
The lack of FF miles

Actually WO made a deal with Continental for membership in its OnePass program for this brief scheduled service revival in the 90s.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineXtoler From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 954 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4777 times:

I've never seen it in scheduled civilian service. Back in '90 I flew one of the DC10-30's from PHL, to Gander for a refuel (we had to sit on the aircraft until the Aeroflot flight was boarding as they didn't want us mixing with the still Soviets back then. Then onto my first duty assignment at RAF Mildenhall. The cool part about that was, it flew directly into the aerial port at MHZ, as I was assigned to the 313th Aeiral Port Squadron (that's what it was at the time), my First Sergeant greeted me at the gate and I never cleared customs, just picked up my bags, walked out to the flight line and next door to the freight terminal and up to the orderly room to start my in processing.

Back then PHL had a MAC operating location, which now is at BWI. When I was doing the F/A thing I used to see plenty of WO MD11 there. While I was at MHZ from '90-'92 WO always came in from PHL on Wednesday morning and if I remember right, continued onto FRF (Rhein-Main AB). By then I was off duty and sleeping, or whatever I was doing.



EMB145 F/A, F/E, J41 F/A, F/E, because my wife clipped my wings, armchair captain
User currently offlineABQopsHP From United States of America, joined May 2006, 863 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4765 times:

While working in MCO thru early/mid 1985, I would see a WO 727-100. It flew MCO-BWI-MCI-OAK. From what I recall it didnt last long though. They had at ticket counter next to EA in Terminal A on the north side.
JD



A line is evidence that other people exist.
User currently offlineCody From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1932 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4733 times:

I met an ex-World Airways 727-200 flight engineer while eating breakfast last year in St. Marteen. He now works for Executive Jet. He told me they flew the 727's from MCO to IAD and BWI as well as "other places along the east coast" to feed the DC-10's at BWI and IAD. He said that they were based at IAD. I personally do not recall them offering scheduled flights to IAD, but it may have been a short-lived thing.........like so short it never got published anywhere. I felt like asking, "Are you sure you were based at IAD?" but I didn't want to insult his intelligence.

World flew DC-10's on scheduled flights using MCI as a stop-over point from the west coast cities of LAX and OAK connecting to BWI , EWR and MCO in the east. They also flew from OAK to EWR and EWR to BOS; OAK-LAX and from both cities to HNL. BWI to LGW continuing on to FRA was, to my knowledge, the only international route they flew. I think they had fifth freedom rights to actually pick up people in London and take them to Frankfurt.

I remember they either planned, or did very briefly, service to SJU.

I think that blue and silver 727-100 was leased from the original SkyBus which rose from the ashes of Frontier Horizon. It was in their basic paint scheme, but the rest of the 727's were mostly white with the word "World" in large, red billboard titles with a sweep of blue next to the "W". The big "W" was also on the tail. They had one or two DC-10's painted like that as well. The rest of the DC-10's were in that red and gold scheme. I don't think any of the 727-200's were ever painted that way.

I don't know how in-flight service was or how much money they lost. Also, I don't know for sure how many airplanes they had back then.

Since you have that OAG, do you see any other 727 routes besides the one listed above?

Their DC-10's did indeed have the lower galley.


User currently offlineCody From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1932 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4708 times:

Your question about the World 727 fleet got me wondering so I did a little research and found that SkyBus, the former Frontier Horizon operation, leased their entire 727 fleet to World in 1985-1986. Tail numbers were N1187Z, N1979, N1973, N727ZV, N407BN, and N545PS. We need to figure out what exactly SkyBus was and how it became intertwined with World.

When Presidential Airways bought Key Airlines in 1986, they turned around and sold that airline to World a few months later. World ended up handing some of the 727's over to Key and I remember Key even flew a DC-10 in full colors leased from World. World sold Key in the early 1990's and Key became a scheduled operator based in SAV. I remember they started switching over to the MD-80 and even took the old National "Sun King" logo. Key failed shortly after becoming a scheduled carrier and the Sun King went to SunJet.


User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4699 times:

I love those old safety videos, with those pre- PageMaker and MovieMaker graphics it looks some like high school A-V club production . Plus, they have the obligatory "extinguish all cigaretts" directive...LOL LMAO. There is an old TWA 747-100 (circa 1985) safety vid that looks like it was narrated by one for the Stepford Wives.

I remember seeing World DC10s in BOS as a kid in the early 80s and have a timetable somewhere around here.
I had a hottie babysitter that was hired on with World as a FA around 1983 or 84 and she was based at BWI. Also IIRC there was an incident @ BOS with a scheduled World DC10 that over ran the threshold, hit the sea wall and ended up in the harbor.

From Wiki:

"World Airways Flight 30: On January 23, 1982, a World Airways DC-10 landing at Boston's Logan International Airport under icy conditions and limited visibility slid off the end of the runway and plunged into Boston Harbor, separating the cockpit section from the rest of the aircraft and killing two people.[5] The main cause of this accident was the Boston Port Authority's failure to provide adequate runway braking reports to the crew although previous aircraft had reported little to no braking action prior to World's landing."

I cant find any hard financials on their scheduled operations experiment, but my gut tells me that like Capital and Transamerica it was a dog with fleas, and they got back into the bread-n-butter of MAC and cargo flying real fast. Too bad the folks at ATA didn't learn from Worlds lessons untill it was too late :-/.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xcxU0K5MVk&feature=related

World route map in 1986, just before they pulled the plug on skd opns

http://www.departedflights.com/WO021086.html

FYI: I have flow with 2
"old" World FAs now at United and they both had this to say about their experience there: the said the working conditions were awful by todays standards in terms of duty rigs and trip parings BUT the company was truly like a family and there were strong lines of communication from the very top to the front line part-timers. They say 'working together' across functional lines was more than corporate blah blah blah and an actual practice.


User currently offlineTWA1985 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4638 times:

Here is the World Airways routes from the June 1, 1985 OAG.

Big version: Width: 678 Height: 1273 File size: 217kb


User currently offlineBluewave 707 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3152 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4627 times:

I flew on World's HNL-LAX-HNL flights in the summer of '85 ... sat in coach ... and the fare was $109 r/t! The DC-10-30s had the red/gold livery ... I think we used LAX's T3 or T2(?). Service was okay ... the f/a's were friendly.


"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
User currently offlineTWA1985 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4619 times:



Quoting Cody (Reply 11):
Since you have that OAG, do you see any other 727 routes besides the one listed above?

Here are the 727 routes in the June 1, 1985 OAG. I will post the January 15, 1985, December 1, 1985, and September 1, 1986 OAG routes later. There were no 727-200's at this time.

The 727-100 routes included:

MCI-OAK
WO 41
8:00 am - 9:40 a.m.
727-100
Breakfast

OAK-MCI
WO 110
12:15 am - 5:30 am
727-100
Snack

BWI-MCI
WO 131
6:00 pm - 7:40 pm
727-100
Dinner

MCI-BWI
WO 130
1;40 pm - 5:00 pm
727-100
Snack


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26169 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4609 times:



Quoting Bluewave 707 (Reply 15):
I think we used LAX's T3 or T2(?). Service

World Airways was one of the first tenants of TBIT when it opened in 1984 having previously operated from the Imperial Terminal.
WO ticket counters were ones used by Malaysian Airlines today.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineBluewave 707 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3152 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4373 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
World Airways was one of the first tenants of TBIT when it opened in 1984

That's right! Thinking back ... we did arrive & depart at TBIT ... thanks for jogging the ol' memory bank ...



"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
User currently offlineWDBRR From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4326 times:

I can remember seeing a billboard in the mid 1980's in NJ
with a picture of George Burns and service to California.


User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2264 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4262 times:



Quoting Tonystan (Reply 3):
Did the DC-10 have lower deck galleys cos I only see one tiny galley space there?

The DC-10 did have lower deck galleys. Meals were moved from the lower deck to the main deck via elevators. The galleys were installed (1) to maximize space for seating, and (2) to keep the smell of food out of the main cabin.

Sadly, the lower deck galleys caused a World flight attendant to die on the job in 1980; she was crushed to death when the elevator between the lower galley and the main deck malfunctioned, while the DC-10 was enroute from Baltimore to London.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineTWA1985 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4183 times:

The December 1985 OAG is virtually unchanged from the June 1, 1985 OAG in terms of World's schedule. So I decided to skip ahead to September 1, 1986.

Big version: Width: 621 Height: 2177 File size: 583kb


User currently offlineTWA1985 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4161 times:

By September 1986, World was operating 727-200s on its shorter routes and used DC-10s on its Transcon's, Hawaii, and International flights. World also used DC-10s to SJU.

On a side note, in the June 1, 1985 OAG, World served a snack from EWR to BWI.

WO 30
EWR-BWI
4:15 pm - 5:30 pm
Snack
DC-10
Daily


This seems almost impossible considering the facts. A DC-10 carrying 350 passengers, all of whom need both a beverage and a snack, a 32 to 38 minute flight (Source: flightaware.com -- all flight today between EWR and BWI take
between 32 and 38 minutes.)

Can someone explain how they pulled this off?

Thanks,

TWA1985


User currently offlineTWA1985 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4158 times:

Also, when exactly did World end passenger operations?

User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4078 times:



Quoting TWA1985 (Reply 23):



Quoting TWA1985 (Reply 23):
On a side note, in the June 1, 1985 OAG, World served a snack from EWR to BWI.

WO 30
EWR-BWI
4:15 pm - 5:30 pm
Snack
DC-10
Daily


This seems almost impossible considering the facts. A DC-10 carrying 350 passengers, all of whom need both a beverage and a snack, a 32 to 38 minute flight (Source: flightaware.com -- all flight today between EWR and BWI take
between 32 and 38 minutes.)

Can someone explain how they pulled this off?

Thanks,

TWA1985

Ya know, this is WAAYY off topic but I have wondered the same thing!!! The old timers at NWA said they used to serve a hot breakfast on the 747 positioned from MSP to ORD (for the ORD-NRT run). Heck, we have a hard time pulling on a full beverage service on a packed A320. I think I am going to start a thread on this one.


25 AirCop : Flew the World DC-10 at couple of times from OAK to LAX, loved the Imperial Terminal, off the plane and out the airport in mere minutes.
26 N702ML : CAB Approval for low-cost, coast-to-coast scheduled services was granted in early 1979, with intercontinental flights connecting New York (EWR) and B
27 TWA1985 : N702ML, WOW!!!!!! Thanks a Lot!
28 Post contains links N702ML : Some other interesting details from the timetables: February 27, 1980 Timetable tidbits: Terminal Locations: LAX - West Imperial Terminal EWR- North T
29 IAirAllie : The company headquarters used to be based near IAD. Maybe that is what he meant and you misunderstood. IAD was a FA base until all bases were elimina
30 Post contains links and images N702ML : Ive found a reference in a book that states that the airline suspended all scheduled operations in September 1986 resulting in approximately 1500 emp
31 MtnWest1979 : Flew them HNL-LAX August 10th or so,1980. Redeye arrived LAX right around 6:00am. First time deplaned widebody (actually only time) via stairs at West
32 Oasis : Did World Airways operate out of the terminal on the other side of FRA? Where the military base was/is?
33 WA707atMSP : I've seen pictures of World DC-10s at the gates in FRA, mixed in with the PA, LH, etc wide bodies. I'd assume they used the main terminal for schedul
34 PRAirbus : World offered scheduled flights to/from SJU, Puerto Rico on 72S and D10s as well...not sure which routes they flew, only lasted for a short period. Ba
35 NWOrientDC10 : George Burns used to do commercials for World Airways during the 1980's. I remember seeing them when I moved to Azusa, Ca in 1984. The first time I s
36 IAirAllie : That is true. It is also true that prior to PTC World HQ was in NOVA.
37 Post contains links Viscount724 : Here's one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRwHpKIg-sc
38 Post contains images TWA1985 : Here are the images that no longer will show up above. They will not be going anywhere. Just Remember, for a clearer image, just click on the picture.
39 Malaysia : I flew on the DC-10s many times between BWI and LAX on World Airways. I remember the Imperial Terminal prior to 84 then later on the TBIT arrival. I w
40 LTBEWR : I remember newspaper ads in the early to mid-1980's of WO offering scheduled transcon services (EWR-OAK for example) for $99/one way with RT purchase
41 NWOrientDC10 : I just watched it. I haven't seen this since it was actually a commercial! Thanks! Russell
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