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More WN Growth At DEN  
User currently offlineMcofreak From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 55 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8204 times:

Six new nonstop flights and two new destinations. The additional service includes three new nonstop flights between DEN and SFO and three new nonstop flights between DEN and OMA. Flights are available
for booking today for travel beginning on September 2, 2008. “We have reversed our decision to retire two aircraft to accommodate this new service,” Gary said. “We will continue to grow in DEN as it is a major focal point for us, and the market is responding exceptionally well to our service.”

They are really pushing there way into DEN, just amazing.

111 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1920 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8157 times:

Wow...F9 is gonna love this!

And looks like you OMA guys finally got your wish!


User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8086 times:

Awesome!!! I'm so excited, I reverse my decision not to fly them...going to book a flight today!!! OMA-DEN here I come!

User currently offlinePetteri From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8052 times:

Again, F9 does well when flying with WN in the same market. This will hurt UA more than F9. The biggest problem at F9 right now isn't WN, not even close. We need financing, and WN expanding into DEN only proves that there is a great market there. Sure this is going to probably lower fares at bit, esp. with the introductory fares that WN will publish, again though that isn't the root of the problem for F9 right now. Who (pax excluded!) wouldn't benefit from higher fares and less competition?!? Good for WN on the expansion and a way to find a use for aircraft that can generate revenue that otherwise would have sat idle.


The above comments are my personal comments and in no way should be viewed as the views,policy or statements of JetBlue
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5912 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8033 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Good to see WN expanding DEN, making connection possibilities greater.

User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7979 times:



Quoting Mcofreak (Thread starter):
Six new nonstop flights and two new destinations. The additional service includes three new nonstop flights between DEN and SFO and three new nonstop flights between DEN and OMA. Flights are available
for booking today for travel beginning on September 2, 2008. “We have reversed our decision to retire two aircraft to accommodate this new service,” Gary said. “We will continue to grow in DEN as it is a major focal point for us, and the market is responding exceptionally well to our service.”

Do you have a link to a press release? Can't find it yet.


This now makes it so that you can get to every southwest city from Denver either nonstop or via a connection. OMA was the last one you couldn't get to.


User currently onlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6572 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7937 times:



Quoting Mcofreak (Thread starter):
The additional service includes three new nonstop flights between DEN and SFO and three new nonstop flights between DEN and OMA

Well, those two markets are no brainers for DEN. They were bound to happen sooner or later.

The OMA fans finally get their wish.


User currently offlineB6fll From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7929 times:

Poor F9... I just wonder how much longer F9 can take WN running all over them at DEN.. Congrats to WN though at the good job they are doing in DEN.. If they keep expanding the employyes over at F9 can go to WN when they go out of buisness.

User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7831 times:



Quoting B6fll (Reply 7):
Poor F9... I just wonder how much longer F9 can take WN running all over them at DEN

These comments get so old.......so you think WN is singlemindly focused on driving F9 out of business.....the question is how much longer can WN grow into losing markets??? Their profit margin is down to less than 3% last quarter, from the 10% they usually earn. There has been some speculation that not a single one of WN's new markets is profitable. Boyd showed that their DEN LF's are awful, with some markets like SLC less than 50%.


It will be oil, not WN that might drive F9 out of business.


User currently offlineChrisjake From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7789 times:

would it be wise for F9 to consider setting up shop somewhere else rather than getting run into the ground? maybe MCI for instance?


Well nothing's dead down here, just a little tired
User currently onlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6572 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7758 times:

Why does every thread about WN adding flights in DEN seem to turn into a thread where people question F9's viability? It gets so old. The two do not go hand in hand.

User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7754 times:

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 8):
Boyd showed that their AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN LF's are awful, with some markets like SLC less than 50%.

AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN-SLC AND ABQ loads should go up a little with connections from Omaha. In fact southwest almost added OMA-ABQ way back when...late 90's I think. It won't help yields though but at least the seats won't be empty. My guess would be 5 people per flight from Omaha.

The more connections, the less empty seats. Once you get loads to where you want them from connections, then you can start raising your fares on the profitable nonstop segments, and the connections too to a certain extent.

[Edited 2008-05-20 08:22:51]

User currently offlineTN757Flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7750 times:



Quoting Petteri (Reply 3):
Again, F9 does well when flying with WN in the same market. This will hurt UA more than F9.

I kinda have to agree to a point here. Due to their BK, everyone's thoughts automatically go to Frontier. Lets not forget United is likely taking a blistering by WN in Denver too. They may have to shrink one of their western hubs in a merger w/US. Either way, WN is going to be a pain in their side in a long time fortress. Seeing Southwest #1 in DEN in a couple of years is not entirely out of the question, even if it doesn't involve mergers. They can easily grow their way into it as long as they have airport resources (gates). They'll move the planes.


User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7734 times:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080520/latu088.html?.v=101

here we go.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5590 posts, RR: 29
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7722 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 8):
These comments get so old.......

True, but unfortunately some people are just dying to be right. Why? Who knows. I think it makes them feel special.

Quoting Chrisjake (Reply 9):
would it be wise for F9 to consider setting up shop somewhere else rather than getting run into the ground? maybe MCI for instance?

It's too late to do that, even if they wanted to (which I don't think they do). Pre-BK they might have made a stronger effort to do this if so desired, but their hands (and money) are now tied, and it would be very difficult to embark on a new strategy that would likely bleed money for a significant amount of time, when at the same time they are paying full price for fuel and bleeding cash critically.

The WN buildup in DEN is really starting to look like an execution. That may not be their intent, and it may not be reality, but it is definitely looking like someone is going to leave DEN in a bodybag.

I'm not one of the F9 bashers, and I want to see them succeed (doing preliminary plans for a SEA-DEN trip, and would love to fly them), but the dark clouds are hovering over them right now, and the only thing that will help them is time and money, not diversification.

All IMVHO.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineAirportGuy1971 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 355 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7715 times:



Quoting Chrisjake (Reply 9):
would it be wise for F9 to consider setting up shop somewhere else rather than getting run into the ground? maybe MCI for instance?

Did you actually read anything said before you? Boyd published numbers that show quite conclusively that WN isn't F9's problem. Oil is. Is oil any cheaper at STL? Is it Cheaper in PHX? Maybe it's going for $2.50/gal at COS. All that would happen with F9 moving the hub is placing the last nail in the coffin. F9 is making a stand at Denver. They will live or die there. If they go out it will NOT be due to WN.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 8):
These comments get so old.......so you think WN is singlemindly focused on driving F9 out of business.....the question is how much longer can WN grow into losing markets??? Their profit margin is down to less than 3% last quarter, from the 10% they usually earn. There has been some speculation that not a single one of WN's new markets is profitable. Boyd showed that their DEN LF's are awful, with some markets like SLC less than 50%.


It will be oil, not WN that might drive F9 out of business.

Well said!


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5590 posts, RR: 29
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7627 times:



Quoting AirportGuy1971 (Reply 15):
Did you actually read anything said before you?

For what it's worth, it wouldn't be the first time anyone has suggested they move or diversify...

Sidenote, but I always find it interesting to use the WN interactive map at www.southwest.com. There are a number of cities that, if you click on them, look like small, Frontier-sized airlines in and of themselves. Denver is certainly one of those, but you could click on BNA, MDW, PHX, TPA, etc etc etc. In any event, clicking on DEN really brings home how much they have grown there, at least in terms of destinations. Interesting to look at.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineB6fll From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7627 times:

PlanesNtrains,

Believe me I dont need to be right on Airliners.net to make me special...LOL..Good one though! Its reality, thats all. I like F9..I would much rather see UA go out before F9. They have a good product and good employees where UA doesnt. But the simple fact is nobody really see's Frontier hanging around much longer...


User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2231 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7566 times:

I'm also pro-F9, but unfortunately, I feel WN may indirectly put F9 out of business for one reason: F9 needs financing to exit Chapter XI, but lenders will become more and more reluctant to provide it as WN expands at DEN, due to the "perception" that WN is trying to run F9 out of town.

Even if WN is not trying to hurt F9, if potential lenders perceive they are, F9 won't be able to fly out of Chapter XI.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5815 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7536 times:

Interesting that everyone feels that WN is driving Frontier out of business, YET

year to date 2008 through March
WN passenger numbers at DEN are up by 251,704 passengers
Frontier domestic mainline is up by 484,318 passengers
UA domestic mainline at DEN is DOWN by 196,703 passengers
http://www.flydenver.com/diabiz/stats/traffic/reports/MAR_2008.pdf

But of course numbers mean nothing around here.  Wink



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineSurfrider1978 From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7522 times:



Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 10):
Why does every thread about WN adding flights in DEN seem to turn into a thread where people question F9's viability? It gets so old. The two do not go hand in hand.

BEcause you have such a well established airline that quietly started service with just a few flights within the last 2 years and has blown up to well over 100 flights at a fortress that F9 and UA have been based from. In some way shape or another, this has to hurt F9, bottom line.

Quoting AirportGuy1971 (Reply 15):
If they go out it will NOT be due to WN.

I disagree. WN may not be the full reason for F9's woes, but they are definately taking their part in F9's collapse.

Quoting TN757Flyer (Reply 12):

I kinda have to agree to a point here. Due to their BK, everyone's thoughts automatically go to Frontier. Lets not forget United is likely taking a blistering by WN in Denver too.

UA unlike F9 can afford to get butchered in DEN. UA has more hubs and focus cities, so losing DEN would hurt them, but nothing catastrophic, whereas F9's only pedestal in this country is DEN and once the mat is pulled from their feet completely, they will be done. Give it 8 months max.


User currently offlineSxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7513 times:

Quoting Petteri (Reply 3):
Again, F9 does well when flying with WN in the same market. This will hurt UA more than F9. The biggest problem at F9 right now isn't WN, not even close. We need financing, and WN expanding into DEN only proves that there is a great market there. Sure this is going to probably lower fares at bit, esp. with the introductory fares that WN will publish, again though that isn't the root of the problem for F9 right now. Who (pax excluded!) wouldn't benefit from higher fares and less competition?!? Good for WN on the expansion and a way to find a use for aircraft that can generate revenue that otherwise would have sat idle.

F9 does well with loads on competitive routes - since WN stimulates traffic - yields and pricing power generally deteriorate (further). Fares and yields are absolutely core to the problem, since they will decrease revenue and worsen F9's cash crisis.

There are few financing options for F9 and WN's increased presence will only make it more difficult.

[Edited 2008-05-20 09:10:53]

User currently onlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6572 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7492 times:



Quoting Surfrider1978 (Reply 20):
In some way shape or another, this has to hurt F9, bottom line.

Even though traffic is increasing for both WN and F9 in DEN, I agree that over time, yields may become an issue; however, it's funny that we can't get through one thread without some fanatics out there predicting doom and gloom.


User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5192 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7479 times:

WN is hurting UA more than F9 in Denver - when you compare the service on F9 and WN vs. UA then you can see why. Me personally I like flying UA mainly because of CH9 and their domestic use of widebodies and 757s; but WN and F9 have much better service (of course IMO).


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineLGAtoIND From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 490 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7449 times:



Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 19):
Interesting that everyone feels that WN is driving Frontier out of business, YET

year to date 2008 through March
WN passenger numbers at DEN are up by 251,704 passengers
Frontier domestic mainline is up by 484,318 passengers
UA domestic mainline at DEN is DOWN by 196,703 passengers
http://www.flydenver.com/diabiz/stats/traffic/reports/MAR_2008.pdf

But of course numbers mean nothing around here.

Those numbers are a bit misleading if WN and F9 are expanding at much higher rates than UA in DEN.


25 ScottB : As another part of the press release says: Again I have to ask, where are they getting the gates from? I see that they're now sharing C33 with YX, bu
26 FlyPNS1 : But you ignore the numbers that really count. Frontier 4th quarter 2007 operating margin: -7.7% (one of the worst margins among all carriers in that
27 MSYtristar : The doom and gloom comment is directed towards the people who have nothing to contribute other that "Oh this is the end of F9".
28 SLUAviator : I used to commute MDW-DEN on WN all the time last year, and I think 90% of the time I used to have to sit up front. I caught a ride to KC and I misse
29 B6fll : MSYTRISTAR, The thread is talking about DEN and WN's growth right? Well Frontier is in horrible shape and WN keeps adding flights. If F9 isnt making a
30 MSYtristar : B6fll, Look, it's like pizza, it's all good. And you don't have to love or dislike any carrier, I really don't care. But the fact is, every time that
31 HNL-Jack : Perhaps...just perhaps, it might have something to do with F9 being in chapter XI with little hope of finding the financing they need to continue ope
32 Rdwelch : F9 will get financing from investors who understand the industry and know the workings of such, not people who work on "perceptions" and the grenade
33 MSYtristar : Little hope of finding financing? I guess you're in the know. I'm impressed.
34 United1 : No one knows if they are going to get financing or not and be able to exit BK, F9 can do it but I don't think anyone can truly belive that this is go
35 FATFlyer : I'm not ignoring them but there are comments on this and other threads that WN is targeting F9 only. From the passenger count side that is not what i
36 Enilria : What it proves is that Southwest thinks Frontier is the most easily eliminated competitor. I'm actually surprised WN is going to be this big in Denve
37 United1 : True but UA is also cutting back at Denver so you would expect the numbers to go down somewhat. I don't think anyone doesn't see it as an attack on b
38 FlyPNS1 : True, but there may be some strategy there. Instead of competing with WN and F9 for every bottom-basement fare, maybe UA is realizing it's better to
39 SANFan : I posted a couple of weeks ago that when I saw WN start DEN-SFO, I would know that Gary Kelly was right when he indicated that WN was going after Unit
40 Rdwelch : Are you privy to Frontier's financing options, and what steps they are taking to get it? Sure Aloha got DIP financing but was it of a quality that wa
41 AirFrnt : We know the effect that WN is having on F9 - and yes - it is serious. We don't know the effect that WN is having on UA, and I would bet it's significa
42 KELPkid : Still waiting for the DEN-ELP segment, which would allow a pretty convenient nonstop connection for the visits home from PDX...
43 Surfrider1978 : since DAL has flight sto MCI, is DEN within that window as well?
44 United1 : I would love to know why you think that WNs expansion in DEN is hurting UA so much more then F9? I'm not arguing that its not affecting UA however wh
45 Rdwelch : Point taken, and agreed. Gus
46 AWACSooner : No...WA is still in place and Colorado is not exempt from that like Missouri is.
47 Silentbob : Their hedging position, relative to other carriers, isn't going to remain in place forever. Fuel is going to come down or they will not be able to se
48 Vctony : So in the end DEN could go from the F9/UA hub of a few years past to a WN "focus city" with F9/UA essentially gone. I'd say that in this scenario DEN
49 Sxf24 : F9 is desperately trying to get financing, but has not found any acceptable offers. They're not really picky, there's just nothing out there. There a
50 SANFan : One other thought that just occurred to me is that now with DEN-SFO, WN is also acknowledging VX and their expected arrival in DEN ( with obvious flig
51 Rdwelch : So you are saying you're a reputable industry analyst? Gus
52 FATFlyer : UA is the largest carrier on both DEN-SFO and DEN-OMA. I can see UA defending DEN-SFO. But DEN-OMA? I don't know. UA may cut its capacity there as par
53 United1 : Assuming that UA doesn't tweak DEN-OMA it looks like the only thing planned for the September schedule change, which have the cut in flying already f
54 FATFlyer : But that was before this WN announcement. I could see them tweaking the route.
55 AirFrnt : To be efficient and profitable as a connecting hub, you need to have a super-majority (60%+) of the traffic at that hub. UA has lost that. They also
56 Flydl2atl : It doesn't matter if Southwest's is trying to drive Frontier out of business or not. Nor does it matter if this will affect United more then Frontier.
57 AirFrnt : F9's passenger count has, in fact, been going up. Why? Your statements can be applies just as easily to UA, which is burning massivly more money. The
58 Rdwelch : No one truly in the know will say who the new investors will be from, so I can't understand why you would say this. Enjoy the flight and please file
59 AirportGuy1971 : 1st quarter 2008 numbers haven't been reported for a very good reason. 1st quarter 2008 is not over for F9. 1st quarter 2008 for F9 only BEGAN on 1 A
60 Enilria : I want them to survive. I do think the new leadership that brought them into Ch11 is inept. I would like to see them replaced and I think that has to
61 Rdwelch : Enjoy the flight and please file a trip report with comments good and bad. It's just like talk radio. Everyone thinks they have the answers, but unle
62 Sxf24 : And profits have, in fact, been going down (along with cash balances).
63 United1 : Not true at all and if anything that simply means, as F9 has never had a super majority at DEN, that would put F9 at a bigger disadvantage then UA at
64 ScottB : I'm not exactly sure one would want to "destruct" the airline but at the risk of contributing to the topic drift... The next three months are probabl
65 AirportGuy1971 : You haven't by any chance been paying any attention to the price of oil have you? WN has their hedges. Great for them. Name another airline in the US
66 Rdwelch : Seeing your replies below, I can't very well believe that statement. Why are you so full of piss and vinegar in proving your worth on this board in l
67 ScottB : UGH. I'm sure he was talking about calendar first quarter 2008, but you're wrong anyway, the current fiscal quarter for FRNTQ.PK is 1st quarter 2009.
68 United1 : UA burned 80 million dollars the first quarter vs cash on hand of 3.6 Billion thats 2% of their cash reserves and that doesn't take into account the
69 Tom in NO : And the nail gets hit on the head.....it's usually a given that while new service from a new carrier obviously helps stimulate a market in general, i
70 AirportGuy1971 : Good catch. They were talking 1st quarter. F9 is currently 1n 1/2 way through their 1st quarter. I missed the year. Good pick up. That does not chang
71 ScottB : What raises a red flag for me is the fact that there's nothing scheduled on the investor calendar for when the FY2008 numbers will be announced. As a
72 FATFlyer : In terms of local traffic. But UA operates I believe more seats between the 2 cities. My point was that I could see UA reducing some equipment size,
73 Sxf24 : Just because they other guys are hurt doesn't mean F9 is any better off. They just happen to have much, much fewer room to negotiate and could die al
74 Surfrider1978 : Couldn't agree more. WN is really sticking it to UA , Leaping ahead of VX on every step they take, and really putting a halt to F9's future. F9 is ba
75 FreequentFlier : Sad to see F9 being attacked so rapidly - this almost borders on predatory. (And yes I'm aware WN is going after UA as well, but UA isn't in the midst
76 HNL-Jack : I'm certainly not in the know, but I do have a little experience in airline financing. And, as much as I admire the service product that F9 provides
77 Joeljack : The flights on UA from OMA-DEN are very full the majority of the year (except Jan, Feb and Sept) For example, I just flew Omaha-Denver last weekend a
78 AirFrnt : Actually, that quote comes from Bob Crandall. It informed their strategy at DFW. please note that I said connecting hub. The majority of F9's traffic
79 Post contains links United1 : Great so please explain why they set up LAX, ORD, JFK, LGA & BOS then as AA doesn't have 60% of the traffic in any of those cities yet when fuel wasn
80 AirFrnt : There is absolutely no doubt that the larger percentage of a hub you own, the more profitable it is. Check out NW and MSP for example. If you are goi
81 MAH4546 : Of those, only ORD is a hub. The rest are simply focus cities, and some would barely call BOS a focus city anymore.
82 TxAgKuwait : I will neither concur with nor dispute your analysis....but I'm afraid I am going to have to rain on your parade a bit when it comes to your data. Un
83 United1 : I'm not contesting the fact that UA carries more connecting traffic at DEN then F9 does, my point is simple F9s percentage of O&D vs connecting traff
84 United1 : Do those fares include all the fees and fuel surcharges that were included in the tickets at that time or are those the base airfares?
85 Joeljack : I Used faremeasure for my comparison for %'s and fares. The 3rd quarter DOT data is a little newer but for example LAX is no longer served by YX so t
86 Iflyswa : It's also been announced that DEN will become WN's 22nd provisioning station later this summer. iflyswa
87 AirFrnt : That's true of O&D, but not of connecting hubs. To make connecting hubs efficent, you must push as much traffic through them as humanly possible. One
88 United1 : No you push the right traffic through them not every Tom Dick and Harry, for example it makes no sense for UA to carry the $199 passenger between MSP
89 TxAgKuwait : I have a questiom. Where do you get this information? The reason I ask....is that it isn't right. And the right information is not all that hard to c
90 AlexInWa : Over 91 Daily flight out of DEN by Sept 08.........that is nothing short of amazing!!!! Maybe these "Legacy" carriers should go to the SWA University
91 United1 : I'll give you that one I looked at the wrong number for WN (actually I'm not sure what number I read wrong when I downloaded the 10Q for WN..) howeve
92 SWABrian : Our Provisioning Department restocks the galleys of our aircraft with supplies, including snacks, peanuts, beer, pretzels, liquor, napkins cups glass
93 FreequentFlier : Taking loss (and now significant loss) paying passengers and "making up for it in volume" is not a successful strategy. Who the hell cares about mark
94 TxAgKuwait : I'm afraid that market share and "incremental revenue" is a lot like a heroin addiction for the legacies. They can't help themselves. Revenue managem
95 Post contains links United1 : Very true however, fuel is the reason for the increase in CASM that all the majors are dealing with right now unfortunately there is little that the
96 TxAgKuwait : United I appreciate you citing your sources. When I say "market"....I don't mean the Denver market per se. I am talking about individual Denver market
97 United1 : I appreciate it when you and others cite your sources as well, as far as I'm concerned everyone on this board is engaged in a learning experience and
98 TxAgKuwait : If you are talking about leaving in the costs of commuter/feeder operations, I would tend to agree. If yiu strip those out of UA's costs (which has b
99 United1 : No you still can't draw an accurate comparison... A UA has to operate multiple fleet types due to its global route network, that in itself is going t
100 SWABrian : It's not that unreasonable. SWA operates the most flights and carries the most passengers out of LAS. In 2007, SWA carrried 52.5% of the passengers o
101 United1 : In order for WN to have half the flights between Chicago and Midway WN would lave to launch 10 more daily flights on DEN-MDW (thats assuming F9 exite
102 Post contains links LoneStarMike : Just a heads up, TxAgKuwait - DOT released Q4 2007 data this morning. http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/x-5...le_files/consumerairfarereport.htm I hav
103 SANFan : Thanks for the notice from me, Mike. All that new raw data just in time for a 3-day weekend! (Kind of pathetic, eh?) bb
104 LoneStarMike : It's not pathetic if you're an airline geek like most on here (myself included) We live for this kind of info. BTW, I expect a FULL REPORT come Tuesd
105 SANFan : Love a crowd! Be talkin' to you later on tonight... bb
106 Mariner : Doesn't United fly that route? mariner
107 LoneStarMike : Yes, United flies the route. If F9 accounted for 48.53% of all AUS-DEN passengers and WN only accounted for 12.63% of all AUS-DEN passengers, that wo
108 United1 : Let me know if I'm figuring this right.... 730 passengers a day DEN-AUS in Q407 F9 354 passengers WN 93 passengers Other 283 passengers So there were
109 Mariner : That your comparison was only between Frontier and Southwest, whereas three carriers fly the route non-stop. mariner
110 LoneStarMike : That part is correct. No. There were 558 passengers per day on DEN-AUS in Q406. 558 passengers per day in Q4 2006 multiplied by a 30.8% increase woul
111 LoneStarMike : I got the info from Table 6 of DOT's Consumer Airfare Report, which only shows the market share leader and the low-fare leader. UA was neither of tho
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