Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Finnair South Korean Cabin Crew Training Failed  
User currently offlineOkAY From Finland, joined Dec 2006, 652 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10855 times:

The 13 newly trained South Korean flight attendants for the soon-to-be-opened Seoul route of Finnair has declined the contract offered by the airline, and all the trainees have already left Finland to return to their home country.

The spokesman of Finland's flight attendant association (SLSY) Mauri Koskenniemi says that the trainees feel that they have been conned by the airline and accuse them of racist discrimination. Koskenniemi says in the article published in Helsingin Sanomat (one of the main newspapers in Finland) that the airline has lured the new FAs to join Finnair work force by giving them a wrong impression of the contract.

When Finnair was asked about the situation, the chief of cabin crew department Kati Lehesmaa admitted that the South Korean trainees have indeed all quit and that the whole training "has gone terribly wrong". The airline, however, does not take all the blame, but says that the recruitment firm (ANC) used in South Korea to recruit the FAs has given false, too rosy, picture of the contract the FAs would be signing with the airline. She does admit, however, that the airline is also to blame: " we should have gone through the contract in detail right in the beginning", she said in the article.

Apparently during recruitment the chosen people were told that they would be signing a permanent contract, when again Finnair was ready to sign only a contract for two years, in order to see how the route succeeds. The trainees were also promised by ANC a monthly fixed salary plus "flight add" depending on the amount of flights done, when again Finnair wanted to pay only this "flight add".

Koskenniemi says: "There are dozens of Asian crew working on Finnair's Asia flights. The first Japanese FAs were hired over 20 years ago. The Asian crew are not members of SLSY, though the association has tried for years to make it possible for them to join the union, which would mean the Finnish contract would be applied to the Asian crew as well."

Lehesmaa says that the opening of the route will now be handled with all-Finnish crews. The airline is in process of recruiting new South Korean FAs, as the they see it is vital to have local crew members on Asian flights, due to service and safety aspects.

The new route goes online June the 2nd.

The article, in Finnish, can be found here: http://www.hs.fi/talous/artikkeli/Fi...4tt%C3%A4en+kotiinsa/1135236510375

For what I had understood is, that the Finnair Asian crew members were indeed hired with the same contract as the Finnish counter parts. Apparently not. Not a good thing this situation, in any way, however!

okAY

[Edited 2008-05-20 15:05:29]

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFly2YYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 1044 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10596 times:

Definitely look forward to the outcome! If anyone has anymore news please can you post it?

User currently offlineAndaman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 10141 times:

Well it seems the 'Korean Crisis' is over, all the Korean flight attendants have signed the contract after all. It seems the problem was the recruitment firm in South-Korea and the old fight between AY and the unions.

Sorry available only in Finnish:
http://www.taloussanomat.fi/liikenne...lentoemantakiistassa/200813896/139


User currently offlineTeme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10093 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Andaman (Reply 2):
It seems the problem was the recruitment firm in South-Korea and the old fight between AY and the unions.

Yeah but it seems that the Finnish Embassy in Seoul was working on this one to clear any misunderstandings.  Smile



Flying high and low
User currently offlinePyh From Finland, joined Oct 2001, 146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10008 times:

I understood that the Korean embassy in Helsinki sorted it out.

User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4635 posts, RR: 23
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9999 times:



Quoting OkAY (Thread starter):
Koskenniemi says: "There are dozens of Asian crew working on Finnair's Asia flights.

Let's hope the Koreans are better than the crew that used to fly the SIN-BKK-SIN sector. Awful!



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4898 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9958 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 5):
Let's hope the Koreans are better than the crew that used to fly the SIN-BKK-SIN sector. Awful!

Why? The SIN-BKK-SIN flights are staffed by the same FAs who also do the BKK-HEL runs (not on the same day of course) and it usually includes Finns as well as (mostly) Thai FAs (many of whom also speak Mandarin Chinese). I've flown with them quite a bit on the BKK-HEL leg and they are usually quite good....


User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4635 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9900 times:



Quoting Panamair (Reply 7):
I've flown with them quite a bit on the BKK-HEL leg and they are usually quite good....

Had a bad experience - SIN-BKK sector F/As were awful. No smiles, shabby uniforms etc. A Finnish crew took over for the BKK-HEL and the difference was chalk and cheese. It's possible it was a one off, but when I mentioned it in a trip report, I had a bunch of people say they'd noticed the same...



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineTeme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 9429 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Pyh (Reply 4):
I understood that the Korean embassy in Helsinki sorted it out.

It was the other way around.  Wink

Anyway AY likes to have some native FA's on it's Asia flights for safety reasons and that they can provide service in the native language during the flight.



Flying high and low
User currently offlineGuyBetsy1 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 840 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 9089 times:



Quoting Panamair (Reply 6):
The SIN-BKK-SIN flights are staffed by the same FAs who also do the BKK-HEL runs (not on the same day of course) and it usually includes Finns as well as (mostly) Thai FAs (many of whom also speak Mandarin Chinese). I've flown with them quite a bit on the BKK-HEL leg and they are usually quite good....

Not to worry...

AY stopped flying to SIN and now only flies to BKK.


User currently offlineFly2YYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 1044 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8999 times:



Quoting Teme82 (Reply 8):
It was the other way around.

Was it really the other way around?

Or do you say this just because you're Finnish and want to protect AY business having lower paid Asian flight attendants on their routes?


User currently offlineBramble From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8962 times:



Quoting Fly2YYZ (Reply 10):

Quoting Teme82 (Reply 8):
It was the other way around.

Was it really the other way around?

Or do you say this just because you're Finnish and want to protect AY business having lower paid Asian flight attendants on their routes?

I would say that it was the Finnish embassy in Seoul who sorted it out. The Finnish govt would be very eager to try to prevent any negative international impact on their country.


User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5089 posts, RR: 55
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8843 times:



Quoting Panamair (Reply 6):

Why? The SIN-BKK-SIN flights are staffed by the same FAs who also do the BKK-HEL runs (not on the same day of course) and it usually includes Finns as well as (mostly) Thai FAs (many of whom also speak Mandarin Chinese). I've flown with them quite a bit on the BKK-HEL leg and they are usually quite good....

= Interesting as I agree. I have done BKK-SIN-BKK several times on AY and the Asian crews were FAR FAR superior than their unionized Finnish counterparts.

Saludos,
A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineJamie86 From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8669 times:

do these asian crews have to be able to speak finnish to get the job?


JAMIE
User currently offlineAndaman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8639 times:

Quoting Jamie86 (Reply 13):
do these asian crews have to be able to speak finnish to get the job?

No Finnish/Swedish (both official in Finland), just some basic words. A large part of the passengers are Asians on these routes, the Asian crews are needed for the "service and safety" as AY put it. They have had native Asian crews for over 20 years.

[Edited 2008-05-22 18:33:06]

User currently offlineTeme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8488 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Fly2YYZ (Reply 10):
Was it really the other way around?

Or do you say this just because you're Finnish and want to protect AY business having lower paid Asian flight attendants on their routes?

The Finnish embassy in Seoul helped AY to clear the misunderstandings.

And I don't know what the current salary levels for FA's are in South-Korea. So I can't say if the 1200 USD in month is good or bad....

Quoting Jamie86 (Reply 13):
do these asian crews have to be able to speak finnish to get the job?

No. But they must be able to speak English.



Flying high and low
User currently offlineCospn From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8472 times:

1200 a month isnt that a Slave wage ??????????

User currently offlineTeme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 8336 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Cospn (Reply 16):
1200 a month isnt that a Slave wage ?

That depends where you live and the exchange rate of USD and the local currency. Currently 1.00 USD = 1,047.55 KRW
So they would be payed 1257060 KRW/month.



Flying high and low
User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8237 times:

Ok SO an Apt is Seoul is $500 less food $350 Phone and others $50 so they get less than USD 100 per week thats Slave wages.. Unless someone can say its cheaper than what i have said..

Must be a few Koreans out there ....


User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8215 times:

Is there a shortage of Finns wanting to work as cabin crew? I think the national carrier should look firstly to its own people for employment.

User currently offlineAirCatalonia From Spain, joined Nov 2007, 554 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8190 times:



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 19):
Is there a shortage of Finns wanting to work as cabin crew? I think the national carrier should look firstly to its own people for employment.

No wonder if they get paid $1200 a month.


User currently offlineFinnaviation From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8184 times:



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 19):
Is there a shortage of Finns wanting to work as cabin crew? I think the national carrier should look firstly to its own people for employment.

It's not many Finns that speak Asian languages like Cantonese, Hindi, Mandarin, Thai, and so on.

[Edited 2008-05-23 03:55:58]

User currently offlineDABZF From Germany, joined Mar 2004, 1200 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8149 times:



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 19):
Is there a shortage of Finns wanting to work as cabin crew?

I don't think so, but I think there is a shortage of Korean speaking Finns  Wink

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 19):
I think the national carrier should look firstly to its own people for employment.

...and of course for non-Finns non-union members you can pay much less... though the USD 1200 sounds really low!



I like driving backwards in the fog cause it doesn't remind me of anything - Chris Cornell
User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8089 times:



Quoting COSPN (Reply 18):
Ok SO an Apt is Seoul is $500 less food $350 Phone and others $50 so they get less than USD 100 per week thats Slave wages.. Unless someone can say its cheaper than what i have said..

Sorry I can´t follow you and I also do not understand what you are talking about.  Confused

You mean that they should get their living expenses extra??? so that they can put more then 100$ on a savings account?

I am sure this 1200$ is the basic salary with the add payments still to be counted.


User currently offlineAndaman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8049 times:



Quoting DABZF (Reply 22):
..and of course for non-Finns non-union members you can pay much less.

If they would be based in Finland, absolutely not, that would be the worst kind of discrimination.
Really hard to believe the USD 1200 would be the final salary, do they get more from the Sunday/night hours etc?
They can't have that low salaries in S Korea, can they?


25 Fly2YYZ : Well if they lived in Seoul, they would certainly be living very poorly as it is the most expensive city in Asia to live in. USD 1200 a month, I'm pr
26 Andaman : The deal must be better than it looks, why would they had accepted it otherwise, AY certainly not the only airline needing Korean speaking flight att
27 Teme82 : Nope there aren't AY just want's native crew members on their Asia flights.
28 Fly2YYZ : I would hope so, but one would also have to look at other airlines in the region who do similar things, i.e SAS etc. I'm just shocked at this salary
29 Andaman : As said already the USD 1200 hardly is the final salary, can't see why would they have accepted such a bad deal. They do work for Finnair but I have
30 AA767400 : If no smiles, and a shabby uniform is a "bad experience", I don't no what you would call a real "bad experience".
31 Teme82 : Got some more detailed information and the South-Korean crew gets around 2800 USD/month. So it seems that the first figure of 1200 USD was propaganda
32 UpperDeck79 : Yet the most valuable South Korean bill is worth less than 7 euros. Crazy, huh?
33 Fly2YYZ : Hehe I'll just take my charge card... thank you very much! Teme82, what are your sources for this information?
34 Teme82 : Helsingin Sanomat news paper. Only in Finnish.
35 Fly2YYZ : Can you please post a link! I would like to read the article -- it'll most likely be there in Swedish too...
36 Teme82 : Nope it's only in Finnish, no Swedish text. And it was in Thursday's paper so it's no longer online for free...
37 Post contains links Finnaviation : Yes it is: http://www.hs.fi/talous/artikkeli/Ko...+Finnairille/1135236549984?ref=rss
38 Andaman : Thanks for the link, perhaps little traslation needed.. the Korean crew is paid around USD 3000, not 1200.
39 CXA330300 : For comparison, how much does a Chinese AY crewmember make? That's more than starting FAs in the US then, but then again, they're working rather long
40 Teme82 : Ah they changed their archive systems.... I think they have around the same pay. btw. You have been in here for 4 years so congratulations
41 Andaman : The exhange rates are confusing here, but I would say a starting FA make more than USD 3000 (EUR 2000) in Finland. Statistically an avarage salary in
42 Post contains links Fly2YYZ : Transferred over from flyertalk: The Korean cabin attendants will start working from first flight on after all dispute. The Korean embassy in Helsinki
43 ClassicLover : You don't "no" ? No smiles and shabby uniform in comparison to the obviously Finnish crew (smiles, and much better presented) on the same aircraft is
44 Mk777 : Does AY have Hindi speaking crew on its HEL-DEL flight???
45 Andaman : Yes, they have crew speaking the local language(s) on all their Asian flights, that's their policy. It started when they opened NRT in the beginning
46 CXA330300 : Where do the AY local language crew live? Helsinki isn't exactly London or Paris (no offence), and it's not as if there is a large expatriate communi
47 Fly2YYZ : I thought the the crew would be based from the country they are from and just layover at the hub, in this case HEL
48 Andaman : I have understood most of them are based from their home countries, as mentioned above. This made me curious and checked it (Statistics Finland): the
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Air France Training Cabin Crew To Serve Asians Bet posted Fri Dec 7 2001 03:16:28 by Jourdan747
Taking Pictures Of Cabin Crew-FR posted Tue May 6 2008 05:56:23 by Robert74
Status Of AF Cabin Crew Contract Negotiations? posted Sun Apr 27 2008 01:32:59 by Haggis79
Cabin Crew Rest Between Asia And Australia posted Mon Apr 21 2008 03:29:11 by Ansett767
Delta Cabin Crew Has Zero Rest Days To/from Rio posted Sun Apr 20 2008 19:58:33 by SkisAndy
How Does Qantas Uk Cabin Crew Work? posted Sat Apr 19 2008 21:23:00 by Xulu8
Openskies Crew Training posted Wed Apr 16 2008 07:43:41 by AceFreighter
'Getting To Know' A Cabin Crew posted Mon Mar 10 2008 18:44:48 by Boston92
BA Cabin Crew Balloted Of Strike Action Again posted Fri Jan 11 2008 08:35:31 by BALHRWWCC
Virgin Atlantic Cabin Crew - Whats The Hype? posted Tue Jan 1 2008 21:28:02 by Ansett767
BA Cabin Crew Training posted Thu Jun 8 2006 15:02:17 by BFS
Air France Training Cabin Crew To Serve Asians Bet posted Fri Dec 7 2001 03:16:28 by Jourdan747
Taking Pictures Of Cabin Crew-FR posted Tue May 6 2008 05:56:23 by Robert74
Status Of AF Cabin Crew Contract Negotiations? posted Sun Apr 27 2008 01:32:59 by Haggis79
BA Cabin Crew Training posted Thu Jun 8 2006 15:02:17 by BFS
Cabin Crew Rest Between Asia And Australia posted Mon Apr 21 2008 03:29:11 by Ansett767
Air France Training Cabin Crew To Serve Asians Bet posted Fri Dec 7 2001 03:16:28 by Jourdan747
Delta Cabin Crew Has Zero Rest Days To/from Rio posted Sun Apr 20 2008 19:58:33 by SkisAndy
Taking Pictures Of Cabin Crew-FR posted Tue May 6 2008 05:56:23 by Robert74
How Does Qantas Uk Cabin Crew Work? posted Sat Apr 19 2008 21:23:00 by Xulu8
Status Of AF Cabin Crew Contract Negotiations? posted Sun Apr 27 2008 01:32:59 by Haggis79
Openskies Crew Training posted Wed Apr 16 2008 07:43:41 by AceFreighter
Cabin Crew Rest Between Asia And Australia posted Mon Apr 21 2008 03:29:11 by Ansett767
'Getting To Know' A Cabin Crew posted Mon Mar 10 2008 18:44:48 by Boston92
Delta Cabin Crew Has Zero Rest Days To/from Rio posted Sun Apr 20 2008 19:58:33 by SkisAndy
BA Cabin Crew Balloted Of Strike Action Again posted Fri Jan 11 2008 08:35:31 by BALHRWWCC
How Does Qantas Uk Cabin Crew Work? posted Sat Apr 19 2008 21:23:00 by Xulu8
Openskies Crew Training posted Wed Apr 16 2008 07:43:41 by AceFreighter
'Getting To Know' A Cabin Crew posted Mon Mar 10 2008 18:44:48 by Boston92
BA Cabin Crew Balloted Of Strike Action Again posted Fri Jan 11 2008 08:35:31 by BALHRWWCC