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Concorde And The Current Price Of Oil  
User currently offlineTrent1000 From Japan, joined Jan 2007, 567 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 4 months 1 day ago) and read 3937 times:

Hi everyone,

Around 2004, I got this information from the BA website:
LHR/JFK first class £6600 Concorde £8300 ( £1 approx US$1.88 / $15600)

I know there were a number of valid reasons why Concorde was retired. This is a purely hypothetical question based on the daily news that fuel costs comprise the greater proportion of airline costs, reflected in the ever increasing fuel surcharges on tickets.

With oil currently heading towards US$140 barrel, can anyone suggest what a Concorde ticket would cost these days if it were still flying (and ability to afford a ticket were not an issue)?

Thanks for your opinions and calculations.

Trent 1000

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9032 posts, RR: 75
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day ago) and read 3922 times:
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Quoting Trent1000 (Thread starter):

It would be for sure pretty expensive. I am sure about that. but how expensive? I don't know. Sometimes you got pretty good deals on the concorde. But I never made it flying with her  cry 

WILCO737 (MD11F)
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It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13208 posts, RR: 77
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 17 hours ago) and read 3605 times:

I don't know, it operated through the late 70's oil hike, before my time so I cannot comment first hand on prices, however I would note that when Lord King instituted a series of measures to make it more profitable, a couple of years later, they found in surveys that pax thought they were paying more than they actually were (most were business travel accounts), so BA promptly raised the fares to around these levels!

User currently offlineKennyK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 482 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 3457 times:

Despite Concorde being a fuel guzzler I wonder what percentage of running costs fuel made up? Not as much as other airliners as I guess maintenance costs were very high.

I wonder too in these days of business class only flights, was Concorde retired too early!!!!


User currently offlineGeo772 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 3393 times:

Concorde used nearly 5 times as much fuel per passenger than a 747. Maintenanvce costs were also much higher.
As far as comapring it to business class only flights the likes of EOS, Maxjet and Silverjet all charge (charged) less than mainline carriers so I don't think it is possible to compare them.

As a rough guess for Concorde to operate now the ticket price would probably be somewhere between £12000 and £20000 return.



Flown on A300B4/600,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343,B727,B732/3/4/5/6/7/8,B741/2/4,B752/3,B762/3,B772/3,DC10,L1011-200,VC10,MD80,
User currently offlineTrent1000 From Japan, joined Jan 2007, 567 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 12 hours ago) and read 3201 times:

Thanks for your information. I realise that maintenance costs were high for the Concorde.
Wow, up to possibly £20000 return (nearly US$40 000 round trip). Amazing. I wonder how many individuals and companies would be prepared to pay that in the current economic climate.


User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 11 hours ago) and read 3145 times:



Quoting Trent1000 (Reply 5):
Thanks for your information. I realise that maintenance costs were high for the Concorde.
Wow, up to possibly £20000 return (nearly US$40 000 round trip). Amazing. I wonder how many individuals and companies would be prepared to pay that in the current economic climate.

Probably enough to fill 1 or 2 of the relatively tiny planes a day. Don't kid yourself, there are still tons of people with LOTS of money  Wink



I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13208 posts, RR: 77
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2903 times:

BA always found that the main business pax, (usually around 80% of a LHR-JFK route load), were not price sensitive.
(Those accounts again!)
Nor were the BGI pax, since apart from anything else, theirs was mostly a once a year thing.

It did not happen right after Sept 11 (loads were OK then, two of three sectors I did in 2002 were pretty full, the other-a midweek JFK-LHR, was about 50% full), but when it came to the 2002/3003 season, BA found that companies were ditching accounts with Concorde and 1st travel, (BA suspended 1st on several routes for a period), this was devastating for Concorde.

BA might have ridden it out for a time, that was the intention in late 2002, but the rate of return to flight mods was slowed, the 2nd stage of the cabin upgrade was suspended, to cut costs.
This also meant that the return of the 2nd daily JFK flights was put back too, though the business environment drove that.
Hence the BA001 move to 18.30 in 2003-going for a more leisure market.
However, adding to this was a big jump in maint costs (mostly general aging aircraft stuff, a lot of it not even Concorde specific
AF having a worse time loads wise (if one of the operators pulled out, at any time in Concordes service, it would be terminal for the other, since costs would of course double).

BA also were near to decision points on whether or not to implement work to extend the aircraft's life, since BA's fleet had a higher number of hours and cycles, the grounding, then the lower utilisation after Sept 11th and during the mod programme, moved this back some from 2002.
This would have been expensive work, it had to be decided on by 2004.

So BA and AF came to an agreement, it was sooner than BA would have hoped, certainly neither did all that return to flight mod work for just another 2 years service, but a series of events just overtook them.


User currently offlineTrent1000 From Japan, joined Jan 2007, 567 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2745 times:

Thanks for your interesting information GDB and Happy ANet birthday.

User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8541 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2692 times:



Quoting Geo772 (Reply 4):
Concorde used nearly 5 times as much fuel per passenger than a 747. Maintenanvce costs were also much higher.

Even if that is so, a 747 today would burn (roughly) $75,000 worth of fuel JFK-LHR. So, we're talking about a Concorde burning perhaps $150,000 per trip.

At this rate, the fuel cost per passenger is around $1500 each way.

Does this add up to a ticket price of $20,000 each way? Certainly not.


So this is wrong:

Quoting Geo772 (Reply 4):
As a rough guess for Concorde to operate now the ticket price would probably be somewhere between £12000 and £20000 return.

Why would prices suddenly double or triple? The gross fuel bill is only about 1000-2000 GBP roundtrip, at today's prices.


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