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Delta Ending Bucharest; JFK-Gatwick  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32612 posts, RR: 72
Posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 17631 times:

This isn't in the GDS yet, but it should be by Sunday:

JFK-LGW is gone 01Sep08.

JFK-OTP is gone 05Oct08.

Should be in GDS by the weekend. The flights are still bookable.

Really too bad about Bucharest!

[Edited 2008-05-22 16:14:30]


a.
78 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5232 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 17575 times:

Agreed about OTP being a shame but could this be a seasonal cut or does it look to be permanent?


Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32612 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 17553 times:



Quoting OA412 (Reply 1):
Agreed about OTP being a shame but could this be a seasonal cut or does it look to be permanent?

Since schedules don't go out past 331 days, I couldn't tell you. It's possible, but I somehow doubt it.



a.
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3077 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 17504 times:

I wonder if LGW will be shut down all together? You'd think they could support at least a 752 to JFK, but considering that post merger they'll be flying JFK/ATL/MSP/DTW/SEA-LHR, the current LGW routes would be redundant. Makes sense to consolidate at one airport in today's fuel environment.

User currently offlineDelta4eva From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 17494 times:



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 3):
I wonder if LGW will be shut down all together? You'd think they could support at least a 752 to JFK, but considering that post merger they'll be flying JFK/ATL/MSP/DTW/SEA-LHR, the current LGW routes would be redundant. Makes sense to consolidate at one airport in today's fuel environment.

ATL-LGW does extremely well.



FLY DELTA JETS
User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 17353 times:

LGW's a surprise. And OTP is a real pity.

A few more routes could be on the block (regardless of the merger with NW).

I can see Lyons and Malaga go if they don't do well. And what about JFK-AMS... Could DL leave that to KL?


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17348 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 17343 times:

With all the new routes they've added I'd guess at least a good third of that new capacity is at risk of being cut as long as fuel stays at $130/barrel or higher.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4875 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 17175 times:
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I had heard that OTP was in danger a month or two ago and with the current fuel situation, I guess they finally had to pull the plug. The back was never the problem to fill; DL knew that the front would be a challenge (developing market, etc.) and from what I heard, was hoping to make up for that with cargo. Unfortunately the hoped-for cargo volume/yields didn't materialize (or were not enough) to make up for the shortfall.

User currently offlineBelizexp From Belize, joined Dec 2005, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 17041 times:



Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 5):
Lyons

Lyons was drop/cancelled earlier this year.



Belize my home sweet home...
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32612 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 16992 times:



Quoting Belizexp (Reply 8):
Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 5):
Lyons

Lyons was drop/cancelled earlier this year.

No, it wasn't. Paris Orly was.



a.
User currently offlineBloodyrascal From Bahamas, joined Mar 2007, 191 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 16975 times:

its so sad to see there JFK-LGW service ending. But how is there JFK-LHR service doing? well I guess you Cannot operate Three London airports with heavies and expect profits. but how does JFK-STN work but not JFK-LGW doesn't

User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 16934 times:



Quoting Belizexp (Reply 8):
Lyons was drop/cancelled earlier this year.

Oy! really? Didn't know Lyons was gone too. I thought New York to Lagos and Orly, Atlanta to Edinburgh, and Dakar to Nairobi were the only long hauls that got the chop. Until Gatwick and Bucharest, of course.


User currently offlineBelizexp From Belize, joined Dec 2005, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 16928 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
Paris Orly

I stand Corrected



Belize my home sweet home...
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32612 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 16651 times:



Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 11):

Oy! really? Didn't know Lyons was gone too. I thought New York to Lagos and Orly, Atlanta to Edinburgh, and Dakar to Nairobi were the only long hauls that got the chop. Until Gatwick and Bucharest, of course.

LYS is still starting this summer. The international routes that were/will be cut, so far:

Atlanta-Edinburgh
Atlanta-Fort de France
Atlanta-Pointe Pitre
Atlanta-Tobago

JFK-Bucharest
JFK-Dakar-Nairobi
JFK-Gatwick
JFK-Guatemala City
JFK-Lagos
JFK-Orly
JFK-Punta Cana
JFK-Santiago (DR)
JFK-Santo Domingo

Los Angeles-Los Mochis



a.
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17348 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 16409 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
JFK-Lagos

That wasn't so much cut as never allowed to start.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineHypercott From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 16403 times:

I just hope JFK-TXL won't be next. Does anybody know how badly JFK-Bucharest was doing?
JFK-TXL has a LF of around 80%.


User currently offlineDelta4eva From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 16299 times:



Quoting Hypercott (Reply 15):
I just hope JFK-TXL won't be next. Does anybody know how badly JFK-Bucharest was doing?
JFK-TXL has a LF of around 80%.

To my knowledge, JFK-TXL does well also. If anything, DL will switch JFK-TXL to a 752. I don't think they will cancel it, but JFK-LGW is a surprise to me.



FLY DELTA JETS
User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2669 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 16249 times:



Quoting Delta4eva (Reply 16):
but JFK-LGW is a surprise to me.

It shouldn't be. They've just started LHR, and it's likely doing better than LGW. This move has me thinking that they'll either drop LGW altogether, or it'll go to ATL-only, once they get enough slots to operate CVG-LHR (that is, if they keep CVG as a hub when this mess gets even worse).


User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5171 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 16191 times:



Quoting Delta4eva (Reply 16):
but JFK-LGW is a surprise to me.

Perhaps getting out after BA announced they were operating it?


User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 16091 times:

didnt DL pay UA something like 10million in the last 1-2 years for the route authority/slots on the jfk-lon route?


bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 15936 times:



Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 19):
didnt DL pay UA something like 10million in the last 1-2 years for the route authority/slots on the jfk-lon route?

Yes. They paid for the authority to operate JFK-LON. This was before Bermuda II, and they didn't anticipate it ending. At the time it was the right decision. They didn't purchase any slots from UA, however, as UA flew to Heathrow and Delta wasn't allowed to serve Heathrow at the time.


User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 15454 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
LYS is still starting this summer. The international routes that were/will be cut, so far:

Oh wow! I actually remembered correctly for once... haha!

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Atlanta-Fort de France
Atlanta-Pointe Pitre

Unsurprising. But DL could work with AF and tweak schedules so that their flights connect with AF's flights from Miami, if they thing this is a market they want to pursue.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
JFK-Punta Cana
JFK-Santiago (DR)
JFK-Santo Domingo

Interesting. Is DL totally out of the NYC - Dominican Rep market now?

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 20):
Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 19):
didnt DL pay UA something like 10million in the last 1-2 years for the route authority/slots on the jfk-lon route?

Yes. They paid for the authority to operate JFK-LON. This was before Bermuda II, and they didn't anticipate it ending. At the time it was the right decision. They didn't purchase any slots from UA, however, as UA flew to Heathrow and Delta wasn't allowed to serve Heathrow at the time.

This purchase agreement was structured so that Delta paid United $13m upfront in Oct 06, with additional payments of $2m to be made in Oct 07, 08, 09, and 10.

If an open skies agreements were to be reached (whish did happen) then the follow-up payments would stop (so I suppose they have stopped).


User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2694 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 15306 times:

By this OTP has lost its only direct flight to America and one of only three connections to another continent (Damscus and Tel Aviv remaining the other ones).

[Edited 2008-05-23 01:08:11]

User currently offlineOrlando666 From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 14835 times:

in any class, delta cannot compete with their 757 against BA; in business class the difference is more drastic. sensible for delta to withdraw.

User currently offlineEmrecan From Turkey, joined Feb 2000, 938 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 14788 times:

Too sad to hear about this, it was lovely to see a Delta 767 landing to OTP. But it is not a surprise. I guess the load factor is not more than 50% on JFK-OTP leg

25 Gokmengs : As many here I'm surprised about OTP too. LGW is not that important since LHR is in the system now. DL for the last 5-6 years have developed quite a m
26 BrianDromey : Id say LGW is a reuslt of the LHR service and the beginning of BAs own JFK-LGW service. BA 777 or DL 757? Its an easy call and the trade seems to sell
27 Orion737 : Damn that Delta!! They say they wanted to expand international routes and then cut them all!! Losing OTP is a real tear jerker and as for losing Dakar
28 ContinentalEWR : Not surprised about OTP. Look for Kiev, Budapest, and possibly some of the about to be started Middle East routes to be cut as well. I can see Cairo,
29 Twolz2rn : Political/Civil unrest in Kenya[Edited 2008-05-23 05:02:29]
30 AF022 : How is Kiev doing?
31 Gokmengs : Thanks I thought that was for Nigeria, but its common in the region I guess. Not 100% about OTP, but any DL insider here know the performance of the
32 KL577 : What are you talking about? There is no political unrest in Lagos. The Nigerian authorities did not grant permission to DL.
33 Gokmengs : Easy there O'Reilly, I must have confused it with Kenya.
34 Mayor : I do know that DL was having a difficult time trying to find safe lodgings for the aircrews in Lagos......maybe that's somehow connected.
35 Ocracoke : DL has been flying to those three cities since 1991. Yup. I don't even know why they tried. We ALL know that the only airline in the world that would
36 Gokmengs : If I'm not mistaken DL took over the IST route from PA, I remember back in the day the DL 727 in IST. When DL was using FRA as a mini hub.
37 CV880 : Is that why they're flying ATL-LOS right now?
38 Gokmengs : I was talking about JFK-LOS
39 B747forever : Now when DL will drop their LGW route, wonder how BA will success with it?? Which other carrier is it on the LGW to NYC route, AA?? Seems to be no com
40 Ocracoke : Yes, IST was only a B727 to FRA until the drawdown of the FRA hub. Then it became the current B767 route to JFK. SVO had both a 767 to JFK and a 727
41 TCXDegsy : Does anyone know how they are doing with their EDI-JFK, which replaced EDI-ATL? I was at EDI on Tuesday morning and noticed 2 x CO flights to EWR and
42 Richierich : I give BA six months on the LGW-JFK route.
43 B747forever : You really think so. But if BA know that they wont success with this route why did they even start it. I mean starting a route for just 6 months??
44 ScottishLaddie : Got off to a bit of a slow start what I've seen/heard (Loads of maybe around 50% for the first couple of weeks of ops). However apparently forward bo
45 Panamair : In many ways it doesn't really matter where the US gateway is - people are focusing too much on the fact that the CO and DL services all go to the NY
46 Gsosbee : Not saying that will not happen, but BA usually thinks these things through a little better than that. I suspect that one of BA's metrics on this rou
47 ScottishLaddie : Indeed, however as your last point states, the fact that JFK isn't as large a hub as EWR means that they are already at a disadvantage because most p
48 DTWAGENT : NWA is still ops a flight from DTW/LGW on a B752 out of DTW still. Will that be cut to? As far as the other ones. I can see that all be seasonal thing
49 Connector4you : I would think Budapest is pretty safe for now. As for Bucharest, the over whelming presence of Star Alliance member airlines Lufthansa and Austrian o
50 Goldorak : It's too bad that DL is axing OTP at the same time it was announced that Tarom will join Skyteam as an associate member Anyway, all these internationa
51 Mayor : Maybe that's EXACTLY the reason they did axe the route.
52 Humberside : Zoom to JFK, but that seems to be going seasonal CO to EWR
53 MCOAviationFan : Just flew DL11 from LGW to ATL today. The flight had 1 seat available in J, completely full in Y.
54 Viscount724 : That could take quite a while. The announcement only said that they are on track to join as an associate member once they have met many conditions re
55 LAXdude1023 : Im glad DL does well with ATL-JFK. BA sure doesnt.
56 Flyguy1 : I think it's more that, there just isn't a huge demand for service to OTP, from the USA. It is not exactly a spot people look at for vacation, nor is
57 PanAm330 : Probably due to the fact that BA is hoping to pull people who are either O&D to London, or connecting through to Europe. DL's got the world's largest
58 MAH4546 : Not really possible, since Atlanta still operates to Gatwick. It is that bad a performer for BA, that they haven't even bothered making the switch.
59 WorldTraveler : cancelling JFKLGW is simply that there is no reason to fight it out for LGW given that JFKLHR is now available on DL. It is also possible that DL will
60 PanAm330 : Whoops! I was totally talking about DFW. IIRC, it's been a much stronger performer than LGW from what I've been told by a friend. Now I feel like an
61 Planefxr : Seasonal suspension. No authority. Planned but I don't think it was ever flown.
62 MAH4546 : True, my bad, but at a once-weekly frequency, I doubt the flight lasts past summer. Even before the authority was yanked, the flight was pushed back
63 Viscount724 : The U.S. and Nigeria signed an Open Skies agreement in 2000 but for some reason it's still showing as "provisional", presumably because the Nigerian
64 Planefxr : That is interesting, I did not know that. Thank you.
65 OA412 : Which, if true, makes me wonder why they still fly the route given the fact that they have not been shy about dropping other poorly performing US rou
66 Misbeehavin : Oh this was flown (and I did it 3 times). It was flown, suspended and planned for resumption which never happened.
67 Post contains images Connector4you : You're absolutely right, and to that I would only add a stringent one, Tarom should immediately stop its OTP to JFK and
68 Misbeehavin : And about time too. The 3 current ATL-CDG flights are almost always sold out already. Or at least its been really hard to get a confirmed seat on the
69 Goldorak : Another possible explanation is that AF Airbus 343 has more seats (272 or 291, as AF has 2 configs) than the DL B767 (246 for the transatlantic B764
70 Delta763 : I've wondered this about both BA and LH flights to ATL. I can't see LH doing much better than BA is at this SkyTeam dominated hub. Having said that,
71 MSYtristar : I am pretty sure that AF was planning on flying a B777-200 on ATL-CDG this summer...but after just checking, I no longer see it in the schedules....b
72 Bahadir : Nope, it was TWA that they took them from. It was the same way as TWA operated, 727 to FRA (in TWA's case a B727 did IST-FCO).
73 Mayor : Sorry, but you're wrong. It was one of the PA routes that DL purchased in '91.
74 UN_B732 : I can't imagine KBP is doing too well for DL.. but apparently noone has any info. I might research the DOT statistics later to see how they're doing.
75 VV701 : There is a difference between BA and DL on the LGW-JFK route. BA is British and is likely to pick up most of its traffic in the UK and from its own E
76 COGlobeTrotter : CO operates double daily from EWR to LGW in addition to their LHR service.
77 EYFlyer88 : Amman - Probably Cairo - I don't think so. other middle east destinations: Dubai - NO Kuwait (fr: ATL): I don't think so. We'll just have to wait and
78 Panamair : None of the new ones will go that quickly. They will give them at least a year to see how they work out. You simply can't tell how a route will devel
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