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F.A.A. Tests FOD Detectors @ BOS  
User currently offlineBWI757 From Israel, joined exactly 10 years ago today! , 429 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2241 times:

From today's New York Times, along with video footage of the device

BOSTON — At the edge of Logan International Airport’s Runway 15-right, a technician watched a yellow sensor slowly scan back and forth across the pavement. He waited until it was pointed away from him and, like a man dodging a lawn sprinkler, he rushed to the middle of the 150-foot-wide runway, tossed a plastic pen onto the surface, and dashed back.

The sensor is being tested by the Federal Aviation Administration to detect “foreign object debris,” known as F.O.D., that can damage airplane engines on takeoff or even lead to plane crashes.

On this occasion, it worked. In less than a minute, a computer in the control tower half a mile away sounded an alarm in a mechanical voice: “F.O.D. Alert, F.O.D. Alert.”

The camera at the edge of the runway automatically zoomed in on the pen nearly 75 feet away, and in the image on the computer screen in the control tower, the computer drew a red box around it to highlight its location. A co-worker in the tower announced over a radio, “I see a pen.”


Full article
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/23/bu...ml?_r=1&ref=technology&oref=slogin

BWI757


I live in the US but my heart is in Jerusalem!
19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5827 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2225 times:

It's very appropriate for the FAA to test this technology in the city where everything is falling into pieces and no one knows how to repair any of it.  duck 

User currently offlineN867DA From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2185 times:

Could such technology prevent what happened to AF 4590?


A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2173 times:

I wonder what would happen if it were put on some of the lower quality airport runways out there. There are runways at major international airports in the US that are covered with un-even patches leaving sharp corners resembling shallow potholes. After airplane after airplane goes over them, the edges get turned into gravel... which then covers the runway.

User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2902 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2162 times:

This is really great to hear!!! FOD is very tricky. I do a FOD walk every day at the hangar when I go for my after lunch walk (not on rainy days) and pick up random FOD on the ramp. But, give it a few minutes and something else will get blown in with the wind.

Now if they could only do something about birds...



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineRandyWaldron From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 324 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2143 times:

What a joke. You mean to tell me that should this idiotic technology be put into place, the controllers are now going to issue a "FOD" alert? Also, how does this technology know the difference between, lets say, a pen or a bird? On the BOS atis, we're already subjected to "heavy bird activity in all areas" - on every single ATIS transmission, whether there's a bird on the field or not.

Also, they're testing this technology in BOS? Our runways are situated in the middle of a harbor and are consistently subjected to heavy winds and small amounts of extremely non-lethal debris that criss-cross the runways on a daily basis. What a joke and a waste of money.

The FAA should put their emphasis on their "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" policies rather than conducting a useles FOD study. I can see it now on CNN: "All traffic to Boston has been diverted due to a pencil rolling down runway 22L" - I'll never understand why the FAA is so backwards.

Quoting BWI757 (Thread starter):
A co-worker in the tower announced over a radio, “I see a pen.”

Yes, just another idiotic piece of machinery to divert a controller's attention. Hmmm, BOS has 6 points where runways intersect each other, two LAHSO light strips, and a complicated taxiway system. Sure, let's get some FOD detection out there...great idea...lots of times couches, tires and the odd moose or two wander onto the field.

Absolute stupidity. I can't wait to see the opening on the Massport website for a "FOD Manager" at $70k+ a year. I'm sure they'll be able to allocate the funds to hire another political kiss-a**. Is it me, or does anyone else in the nation see the corruption and bureaucratic pitfalls that plague this airport?

[Edited 2008-05-23 10:41:59]


"Flaps 20, gear down, landing checklist please..."
User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5827 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2115 times:



Quoting RandyWaldron (Reply 5):
Is it me, or does anyone else in the nation see the corruption and bureaucratic pitfalls that plague this airport?

Don't let your blood pressure rise over it. The airport is located in Massachusetts, so there is no hope that it will ever be free of corruption and inefficiency. People there tolerate corruption, and the resulting infrastructure problems, as normal.


User currently offlinePliersinsight From United States of America, joined May 2008, 499 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2112 times:

All kidding aside my site name comes from a fun day awhile back when somebody dropped a pair of pliers on a taxiway at KAGC. As I was going down the taxiway on one of my earlier flight lessons ground advised that a pair of pliers was ahead of me in line with a mooney parked on the ramp. My instinctive, yet dorky, reply was "Ground, 2 romeo quebec has the pliers in sight". The laughter from my instructor and the commentary from some people back at the FBO who heard the exchange was rather priceless. My instructor added that I should have advised not only that I had the pliers in sight, but that they were "not a factor".

As to the pliers, somebody in a truck came and got them. Would they have been anything but a rusty pair, or a nice leatherman, I might have asked ground to stop and pick them up.


User currently offlineRandyWaldron From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 324 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2082 times:



Quoting SeaBosDca (Reply 6):
The airport is located in Massachusetts, so there is no hope that it will ever be free of corruption and inefficiency.

Nah, my blood pressure didn't go up....I've lived in Massachusetts my whole life, so I know exactly what it's like to live here.



"Flaps 20, gear down, landing checklist please..."
User currently offlineLHRlocal From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 282 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2034 times:



Quoting N867DA (Reply 2):
Could such technology prevent what happened to AF 4590?



Quoting RandyWaldron (Reply 5):
Absolute stupidity

Im thinking if theres any possibility of this saving lives, its got to be worth a shot and if it doesnt work? Well, i guess that what a trial is all about....


User currently offlineFlexo From St. Helena, joined Mar 2007, 406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2018 times:



Quoting LHRlocal (Reply 9):
Im thinking if theres any possibility of this saving lives, its got to be worth a shot and if it doesnt work? Well, i guess that what a trial is all about....

I agree. Of course the pen example was as stupid as it gets but if the technology matures it might actually work well and help prevent accidents.

But that of course begs the question: How many FOD related accidents are there? Out of the top of my head I can only think of the Concorde crash a couple of years back.


User currently offlineLHRlocal From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 282 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1998 times:



Quoting Flexo (Reply 10):
How many FOD related accidents are there? Out of the top of my head I can only think of the Concorde crash a couple of years back.

Well, thats one too many for a start...


User currently offlineFlexo From St. Helena, joined Mar 2007, 406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1993 times:



Quoting LHRlocal (Reply 11):
Well, thats one too many for a start...

True, but that was also due to a design flaw the Concorde had which got fixed afterwards. So if that was really all (which I doubt), then it would definitely not be worth it.


User currently offlineVisityyj From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1955 times:



Quoting Flexo (Reply 10):
Of course the pen example was as stupid as it gets but if the technology matures it might actually work well and help prevent accidents.

Providing the runway is absolutely level.


User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1941 times:

What ever happened this technology being tested at DAB? Lockheed Martin was partnering with ERAU and the airport to create "The Airport of the Future". There's suppose to be a building built across where the current school bus lot is on the southeast side of the airport. They were going to install tons of equipment, for example, microwave scanners that can detect FOD and other foreign things on the airport grounds. It was also going to monitor all movements of aircraft and make sure there are no errors. Haven't heard anything about this in a while.

But hopefully, no matter where it's tested, it will become standard at all airports and decrease accidents and incidents due to FOD and other on-the-ground issues.


User currently offlineLuv2cattlecall From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1897 times:
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Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 14):
and other foreign things on the airport grounds.

therein lies the problem...all the exchange students would result in an untold number of false alarms!  duck 



When you have to breaststroke to your connecting flight...it's a crash!
User currently offlineARFFdude From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 152 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1880 times:



Quoting RandyWaldron (Reply 5):
the controllers are now going to issue a "FOD" alert? Also, how does this technology know the difference between, lets say, a pen or a bird? On the BOS atis, we're already subjected to "heavy bird activity in all areas" - on every single ATIS transmission

I'd wager its not so much to inform pilots, but to inform airport ops so that someone can get out there and pick it up. In my runway surface inspections I've found dead animals, gas caps, chocks, you name it.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8759 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1811 times:

A system like this could easily be trained to ignore birds (or alert you to a certain type of bird).

You could also program it to ignore a pen, but notify you about a hammer. Would it improve safety? Almost certainly yes. But safety problems are rare. The Concorde isn't even flying anymore.

Still, it is good to have a system alert us to a big potential object. Or a van. Or, a crossing aircraft. These kinds of things would be good.

Or, how about an aircraft barreling down the wrong runway. See my point?


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1795 times:



Quoting RandyWaldron (Reply 5):
What a joke.

Do you have any idea how much FOD costs the industry? Inspecting and changing engines isn't cheap.

Quoting RandyWaldron (Reply 5):
You mean to tell me that should this idiotic technology be put into place, the controllers are now going to issue a "FOD" alert?

Presumably, yes, until they can pick it up.

Quoting RandyWaldron (Reply 5):
Also, how does this technology know the difference between, lets say, a pen or a bird?

Why do you care? FOD is FOD. If it's on the runway when the airplane is approaching, you have a potential problem. Sucking a bird through is a great way to ruin an engine.

Quoting Flexo (Reply 10):
But that of course begs the question: How many FOD related accidents are there? Out of the top of my head I can only think of the Concorde crash a couple of years back.

Accidents...relatively few. FOD events...tons. They just don't usually result in anything other than an engine borescoping and change.

Tom.


User currently offlineTwinOtter4Ever From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1680 times:

YVR has has this type of system for a couple of year in permanent operation, though they tested it prior to that. I believe one system, which YVR uses, is the qinectiq Tarsier system. Both main runways have there surface fod detector off to the side of each end of the runway and can pick up pens apparently, though from the sounds of the tower communication.

http://www.qinetiq.com/home/capabili...utomatic_FOD_Detection_System.html

Radar with signal processing etc..We might be the only major airport with it...

Checked again..Dubai (doha) is installing it as of '06..Been tested elsewhere too...Must be expensive for so few airports to spring for it. YVR probably got a nice promotional deal, as they are listed prominently in their literature.

[Edited 2008-05-24 02:12:21]

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