RICBWI From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 86 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 years 12 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1967 times:
I found the thread on Jet Blue in Richmond to be quite interesting. Any word on how Air-Tran is doing in Richmond?
I fly them quite a bit out of both RIC and BWI, and the RIC loads appear to be improving over several years ago. I've never flown on Jet Blue as usually within the Northeast I do Amtrak instead of flying but have become a pretty big AirTran fan.
L1011 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1583 posts, RR: 10 Reply 1, posted (4 years 12 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1887 times:
I fly out of RIC quite a lot since I live here, and AirTran flights to and from ATL are usually pretty full. I also recently flew on a Delta 757 from RIC to ATL and back, and those flights were completely full also, at least in coach. So it looks to me like AirTran is doing very well. I guess a lot of capacity is needed on that route.
RICguy From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 111 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1555 times:
Hopefully Jetblue will pullout since its not working ouut for us there...
Actually, things are working out pretty well for jetBlue at RIC. They upgraded their seasonal sevice to FLL and continue to increase on their customer base. Officials have also hinted at possible expansion with addtional Florida destinaitons too. Things may change somewhat with the economy however, I don't see jetBlue pulling out of RIC anytime in the near future. The airport continues to have record passenger numbers.
MOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 5 Reply 5, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1537 times:
Quoting RICguy (Reply 4): Hopefully Jetblue will pullout since its not working ouut for us there...
Actually, things are working out pretty well for jetBlue at RIC. They upgraded their seasonal sevice to FLL and continue to increase on their customer base. Officials have also hinted at possible expansion with addtional Florida destinaitons too. Things may change somewhat with the economy however, I don't see jetBlue pulling out of RIC anytime in the near future. The airport continues to have record passenger numbers.
On this thread we see that in 2007 RIC ranked in the bottom 5 of B6 stations in revenue per seat, and ranked #4 out of 5 in their stage length category in RASM. Granted, B6 seems committed to the RIC market, but I wouldn't be surprised to see atleast a cutback in the market.
Oaktowntwinz From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 33 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1395 times:
Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 5): On this thread we see that in 2007 RIC ranked in the bottom 5 of B6 stations in revenue per seat, and ranked #4 out of 5 in their stage length category in RASM. Granted, B6 seems committed to the RIC market, but I wouldn't be surprised to see atleast a cutback in the market.
Could you break this down for those of us who have no background in this area? For example, how is it a bad thing that RIC is #4 out of 5 cities with an average stage length of 301 - 500 miles? I also don't understand your reference to B6's committment to the RIC market. With the economy being what it is, I find it hard to believe that B6 is only in RIC because of its committment to the city. Allegiance doesn't pay the bills. If RIC wasn't making money for B6, they would pull out just as they've done in other cities.
OzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4681 posts, RR: 23 Reply 7, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1359 times:
I flew STL-ATL-RIC on the 15th of May and returned on the 18th. I didn't count pax or anything but a very rough estimate was a healthy 75% LF at least in and out of RIC. (Same with STL actually, nice to see them doing decently here, at least on the flights I was on.)
MOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 5 Reply 8, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1305 times:
Quoting Oaktowntwinz (Reply 6): Could you break this down for those of us who have no background in this area? For example, how is it a bad thing that RIC is #4 out of 5 cities with an average stage length of 301 - 500 miles? I also don't understand your reference to B6's committment to the RIC market. With the economy being what it is, I find it hard to believe that B6 is only in RIC because of its committment to the city. Allegiance doesn't pay the bills. If RIC wasn't making money for B6, they would pull out just as they've done in other cities.
Being ranked #4 of five cities in your category is obviously not stellar. RASM comparisons must be made in respect to stage length differences, because shorter markets generally are much higher yielding than longer markets, and levels of locality differ among stage lengths, further calling for segmentation by stage length. For the year 2007, RIC performed 13.75% below BUF, 7.3% below RDU, and almost identically to the much storied PIT. My comments regarding B6's commitment to the RIC market are based in that they have spoke of MAJOR expansion from there, and they have a relatively substantial (albeit not the most profitable) following in the market. Given that, they have the ability to shift capacity and have more flexibility with fare levels. I just think they would want to give the RIC market more of a chance than some other markets. But in the end, as you said, allegiance doesn't pay the bills. So if their efforts to reprofitize the market fail, they'll be gone. But I think they can do it, and they think they can too.
Oaktowntwinz From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 33 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1234 times:
Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 8): Being ranked #4 of five cities in your category is obviously not stellar. RASM comparisons must be made in respect to stage length differences, because shorter markets generally are much higher yielding than longer markets, and levels of locality differ among stage lengths, further calling for segmentation by stage length.
Stage length differences, RASM comparisons, segmentation by stage length etc etc. I appreciate your attempt at breaking it down for me but it still sounds like Greek to me. Although being ranked #4 may not be stellar, as you say, but seeing as how there are only 5 cities in the category, I fail to see how this could be statistically valid. I agree that RIC has a huge business market and a large number of New York transplants and this may influence B6's decision to continue serving RIC. However, airlines are no longer gambling on markets, nor can they afford to. Either RIC works for B6 or it doesn't.
Sorry, I should have been more clear.
Stage length is the average distance each seat is flown on nonstop flights out of a city. RASM, or revenue per available seat mile, is a relative measure of profitability. It answers the question 'How much money do we make for every seat we put in the market?' It doesn't tell you that an airline is or isn't profitable, but rather how much more/less profitable they are in station A vs. station B. Because passenger typically pay less overall, but more per mile, on shorter flights - and conversely the other way around - RASM comparisons must take distance into account, hence why each city is in a distance category. Statistical validity for a sample size of merely 5 is not useful for much more than relative comparisons, but it serves that purpose more than adequately.
Oaktowntwinz From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 33 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1057 times:
Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 10): Sorry, I should have been more clear.
Stage length is the average distance each seat is flown on nonstop flights out of a city. RASM, or revenue per available seat mile, is a relative measure of profitability.
etc etc
I appreciate your taking the time to explain. It helped me get a clearer picture of what you were referring to. Thanks.
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