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Alitalia Juggles The Books  
User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2904 posts, RR: 26
Posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4515 times:

Just a one-liner at the bottom of ct-insight's email shot today, but rather significant:

Quote:

"Alitalia has postponed the release of its annual accounts until further notice."

Shamu


So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4502 times:



Quoting BlueShamu330s (Thread starter):
"Alitalia has postponed the release of its annual accounts until further notice."

That's either really bad - they've passes the point of no return or good as they've got a buyer and will be merging soon?


User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4476 times:

My interpretation of this is:

a) that the auditors told Alitalia that the account they gave of the financial position of the company was not - in the auditors' opinion - a true account of the financial position of the company

and possibly

b) that the auditors told Alitalia that they were - in the auditors' opinion - insolvent

IIRC auditors can be sued by creditors, so I guess they are not open to persuasion by Alitalia.


User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4393 times:



Quoting Art (Reply 2):
My interpretation of this is:

a) that the auditors told Alitalia that the account they gave of the financial position of the company was not - in the auditors' opinion - a true account of the financial position of the company

and possibly

b) that the auditors told Alitalia that they were - in the auditors' opinion - insolvent

The former seems the case:

Quote:
Alitalia SpA's auditors Deloitte & Touche will not certify the Italian flagship's 2007 results

http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited...eds/afx/2008/05/21/afx5032629.html



I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlineFFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 733 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4396 times:

Or they are simply going to change their fiscal year dates by extending the last/present year. This is to maybe show a better result if some monetary infusion might be coming.

User currently offlineJanmnastami From Italy, joined Apr 2008, 828 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4234 times:

According to some news, the 2007 loss could be more than 600 million of euro and the net worth could be less than 0. The government has said that the loan of 300 million will be transformed into net worth to increase the capital.

User currently offlineKukkudrill From Malta, joined Dec 2004, 1123 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4157 times:



Quoting Janmnastami (Reply 5):
The government has said that the loan of 300 million will be transformed into net worth to increase the capital.

A loan might have been defensible in terms of EU restrictions on state aid to enterprises, but not an outright grant surely?



Make the most of the available light ... a lesson of photography that applies to life
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4138 times:

It's looking like they're going to expire, unless the government can stop it by claiming an exception in the interests of National Security.

User currently offlineJanmnastami From Italy, joined Apr 2008, 828 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3851 times:

The Board of Directors of AZ has approved the 2007 budget: a loss of 495 millions of euro, revenues 4,354 billions.

User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5990 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3704 times:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/rbssIn...tilitiesNews/idUKL2774645720080527

.. on the bright side, they're up by €132 million compared to last year!  Yeah sure


User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3683 times:

I think they're toast. the EU will not allow continued infusions of cash.

They need to shut down that pathetic operation.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3566 times:



Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 10):
I think they're toast. the EU will not allow continued infusions of cash.

They need to shut down that pathetic operation.


EA/PA/DL/AA

But will the EU actually force the issue? That will be the main question. The alternative is still being bought out by someone......this famous group of investors that is supposed to be the solution.

As to the EU, May 31 is the EXTENDED time allowed to defend the "loan."

As to the investors, to borrow from the movie: Show me the money.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineIkarus2006 From Netherlands, joined Apr 2006, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3399 times:



Quoting Davescj (Reply 11):
As to the EU, May 31 is the EXTENDED time allowed to defend the "loan."

As to the investors, to borrow from the movie: Show me the money.

 checkmark 

Mr B, you gave us talks - where are the consequent actions?

BTW, AZ is offering discounted flights at present in an attempt to get support, with an heartbreaking advertisement:

"Vola Alitalia, fa volare l'Italia"

(Fly Alitalia, let Italy fly)


User currently offlineJanmnastami From Italy, joined Apr 2008, 828 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3299 times:



Quoting CPH-R (Reply 9):
on the bright side, they're up by €132 million compared to last year!

But the debt increased of 171 millions of euro...


User currently offlineThaiflyer From Thailand, joined Oct 2007, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3100 times:

It is just announced in the Dutch press ( telegraaf ) that the dutch travel organisations don't recommend to fly with alitalia any more due to the risk of an upcoming bankruptcy.
This means that any persons who has an paid ticket when the airline would go into bankruptcy losses his money and gets nothing back.
The article also mentioned that alitalia have to pay cash for their fuel in the very near future as it is not credit worthy any more.
Another nail in their coffin.


User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2999 times:

Today is also the last biz day before the EU deadline for the loan justification. Anything come out on that yet? Or is it only a deadline to have the paperwork to their offices, and then they take who knows how much time to make a decision.

As to the "Italian solution" of Mr B, anyone see the money yet? I haven't seen anything about it yet.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4395 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2993 times:

Well, they all gabe Mr. B. the time to get into charge, and now he is, interesting weeks ahead.

User currently offlineGisors From France, joined Apr 2008, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 2 days ago) and read 2870 times:

Very adequate comment yesterday on the Financial Times:

"Air France-KLM must be thanking its lucky stars – and the Italian unions and the country’s new government for that matter – that its proposed acquisition of Alitalia never took off. The Franco-Dutch carrier had negotiated a deal with the previous government on the basis of an oil price of $86 a barrel. But since Silvio Berlusconi returned to power, oil prices have shot up. That would have made an already risky takeover even riskier.

At the same time, the Alitalia unions and the Italian media tycoon must now be kicking themselves for being so hostile towards Air France-KLM. The unions opposed the tough restructuring conditions and guarantees sought by the Franco-Dutch airline."

"So it all boils down to the simple question of whether Mr Berlusconi is prepared to drop his pre-election preference for an all-Italian solution to include a foreign airline – albeit under Italian leadership – in any rescue? The problem is foreign airline partners may be in no mood these days to take a hospital pass in Italy that would end up putting their own business at risk."

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dfbc7f4c-2dae-11dd-b92a-000077b07658.html


User currently offlineThaiflyer From Thailand, joined Oct 2007, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2772 times:

Today announced that the airline is for sale again.

Minister Giulio Tremonti announced today that the airline has to be sold fast.
The government appointed bank Intesa Sanpaolo as an advisor and they are free to decide if they would like to make an offer for them self again. ( out name of private investors )

When did i hear this again ? Oh yes together with the supposed Air One bid.
Keep smiling.!!!!!! Mister B


User currently offlineKL577 From Netherlands, joined Oct 2006, 775 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2719 times:



Quoting Davescj (Reply 15):
Today is also the last biz day before the EU deadline for the loan justification. Anything come out on that yet? Or is it only a deadline to have the paperwork to their offices, and then they take who knows how much time to make a decision.

Indeed the coming hours/weekend are crucial for Alitalia. Will they still be flying on Monday  tombstone  ?


User currently offlineJanmnastami From Italy, joined Apr 2008, 828 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2672 times:



Quoting Davescj (Reply 15):
Or is it only a deadline to have the paperwork to their offices, and then they take who knows how much time to make a decision.

I think the EU will make a decision in 1 or 2 weeks, but I'm not sure.

Quoting KL577 (Reply 19):
Will they still be flying on Monday?

Next Monday, they will fly for sure  Smile . After the summer? I don't know...


User currently offlineYULspotter From Canada, joined Mar 2006, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2358 times:

Italy Makes Third Attempt To Sell Alitalia
http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1212173893.html

I think this 3rd attempt is completely out of desperation and I don't see how it will be successful considering AZ is worse off now than they were in the first two attempts. As they say, three strikes and your out.

From the article:
"Berlusconi has repeatedly promised that an Italian consortium of investors will rescue Alitalia, but the bidders have so far failed to emerge."

Gee what a shock. Good luck trying to find Italian investors willing to pump millions of Euros into an airline that they will almost certainly never get back. At this stage, they need to hope for a donator and not an investor.

So here is where AZ is at:
- no investors willing to rescue AZ
- no airlines willing to buy AZ
- AZ's net worth falling to nothing
- AZ debt at 1.36 billion EURO
- additional emergency loans unlikely

At this point, I hope that the Italian government has friends in the Vatican as it's going to take a miracle to save this airline.

YULspotter


User currently offlineJanmnastami From Italy, joined Apr 2008, 828 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2225 times:

AZ has released today the economic position of April: on 30 April, the available funds (cash) were about 48 millions of euro. On 2 May AZ has received the loan of 300 millions.

During April, AZ losed about 2,1 millions every day.

The Council of Ministers has appointed Intesa Sanpaolo as advisor and has started a new procedure for the privatization of AZ. The new procedure includes the exoneration from the pubblication of economic information about the financial situation.


User currently offlineThaiflyer From Thailand, joined Oct 2007, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2154 times:

Keep dreaming AZ.

Just let it go bankrupt so other people can pick up te pieces without interference of the unions or government.


User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2126 times:



Quoting Janmnastami (Reply 22):
The new procedure includes the exoneration from the pubblication of economic information about the financial situation.

This would seem to violate ever possible approach to modern public financial norms. Are they not going to put AZ onto the stock market? If the company were privately held, I could see NOT requiring the publication of economic information.

What precisely is the plan for AZ? Nationalization?

It sounds like they don't want the information public so that they don't have to tell the Italian Tax Payer how much they are giving to AZ and avoiding any EU complications at the same time. While I hope it isn't this, sounds like dishonesty to me.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
25 Janmnastami : I agree with you, AZ is a company quoted at Milan Stock Exchange and the CONSOB (the Italian version of the SEC) required information about AZ financ
26 Post contains links Ikarus2006 : Sad! First: Mr B promised something and did not deliver. Could this be the first lie of his new government? Second: the information regarding financia
27 Art : Trying to hide the state of Alitalia's finances is not going to do the company any good at all IMO. IIRC Aeroflot pulled out of last year's auction b
28 Gsosbee : The operation might be substandard, but there is a great amount of value for an airline to come in and replace the flying portions. To ignore the rev
29 Davescj : Hopefully, it won't come to this, but the other EU governments would respond with retaliation in trade against Italy. Also, the other option would be
30 Janmnastami : It's impossible: the EU can do nothing, it can only oblige AZ to give back the loan or it can give a sanction of some millions of euro, but the EU ca
31 Davescj : But as I recall, Italy is already in hot water due to fiscal policy norms of the EU, did that get resolved? Further, if Italy fails to pay the sancti
32 Post contains links Janmnastami : Next Tuesday the Council of Ministers of Economy and Finance of the European Union will stop the procedure against Italy for the deficit. http://www.
33 KL577 : The EU did cancel the last loan of the Belgian government to SABENA, they went bankrupt immediately after. It's not impossible for AZ to be out of th
34 Janmnastami : "It's impossible" was referred to the limitations to trade and the deprivation of the vote. If you read my post, I wrote: Remember that if the EU can
35 FreequentFlier : Great quote. I do feel bad for the Italians who have to continuously prop up this failing monstrosity that simply refuses to change. There's all this
36 KL577 : Sorry, I replied to hastily and see your point now.
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