777gk From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1641 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2820 times:
When and if we get the LHR frequencies, the 777 used on EWR-LGW will likely be placed temporarily on EWR-LHR and have EWR-LGW go double daily 767-400. Once more 777s are ordered, LGW would get back a 777 frequency. From what I hear, the British are closer to making our dream of slots a reality at LHR, partly because we were the only US airline willing to open a frequency to STN. All major carriers were asked, and all except us declined. That put us on better terms with the higher-ups across the pond, and I hear we are at the top of the waiting list of US airlines (if thats any consolation!). All this probably explains why we cant get out of that Virgin code-share deal fast enough.
Ishky15 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 717 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2814 times:
I can't wait until Continental is allowed into Heathrow. New York-Stansted will really put pressure on the British Government to let us in, and even if they don't, it's still a win-win situation for Continental, as I've heard that Stansted is a great facility, and many Americans will opt for this flight as they can get a cheap connecting flight on Ryanair.
Ladevale From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2802 times:
To 777qk who stated that "That put us on better terms with the higher-ups across the pond, and I hear we are at the top of the waiting list of US airlines (if thats any consolation!)."
Hate to burst your bubble... But, there is no waiting list for slots at Heathrow... Unless you are currently authorized to fly in and out of Heathrow, you can't get into the queue for more slots or lease slots from an alliance partner...
When Continental is finally allowed to fly to Heathrow, I also wouldn't expect more than two daily frequencies to start. That is about as many as non-incumbent carriers got at Narita after the most recent US/Japan bilateral. The British will probably promise more, just as the Japanese did, to make a deal happen that gives BA and AA anti-trust immunity. But, like the Japanese, the British won't release the requisite number of slots that the non-incumbent carriers need to start all the new services. As the Japanese did, the British will claim that Heathrow is after all a slot-constrained airport.
Then, everyone seems to assume that Continental will get a slot for a flight to Heathrow from Newark or elsewhere that is competitive with AA's slots from Newark or elsewhere... Welcome to the airline game. It just doesn't happen that way. You get what is available, not what AA or UA currently have. Both AA and UA have traded slots for years with other foreign carriers in order to acquire the most advantageous arrival and departure times. When you have a large number of slots, and operate out of a number of geographically distinct gateways, like both AA and UA, trading slots is easy, because there is always something you have that somebody wants. When you have only four slots for two daily frequencies, you're the wallflower of the ball.
I've contended before that AA operates a LHR flight out of Newark, because this is how it leverages a strategic asset against Continental which over the last five years has claimed that it is the largest airline in New York. Domestically that may be true, but AA's Newark flight to Heathrow is a constant reminder to Continental that AA is the largest US carrier to and from London Heathrow in the NY Area. That will probably not change even under a new US/UK bilateral.
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16945 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2756 times:
Whoa wait a second there Ladevale,
A couple of quick points,
First the administration in Washington is not the same administration that negotiated the Narita deal,trust me CAL,DAL and the labor union lawyers will not let Japan or Britain hold up anything.
Japan has a new albeit short runway in the works at Narita,when that opens there will be more room.
Also Britain will eventually have to open up Heathrow or face a trade war where the US can ban flights from LHR to the US,who do you think would be hurt the most if the US Gov't banned all LHR-NY flights.
AA,CAL,DAL,and UAL have survived and been very profitable without Heathrow flights for a long time,and although Heathrow provides a large amount of revenue to AA and UAL's bottom line if you take away their Heathrow flights they would still be profitable.
However just remove British Airways flights to JFK and I bet they go into the red over night (if they're not already operating in the red as it is).
AA and UAL can remain profitable without their JFK-LHR flights,the US domestic market is enormous. BA and European carriers are very dependent on Trans-Atlantic flights to provide much of their revenue,the European domestic market alone is not able to support any of them.
The US has the leverage,and if they're forced to use it BA loses.
Logos From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 796 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2742 times:
I would agree with you except that no deal will get done unless BA/AA divest some slots at Heathrow to go to competitors (like CO). How many slots, etc., is perhaps the biggest bone of contention here, but I don't think any deal will get done without them sacrificing some slots.
Krisair747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 237 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2731 times:
Whoa there Ladevale.............
Continental doesn't need to worry about being the largest airline in the New York area....they are the largest!!!! Domestically and Internationally.
Yes, its true that AA has more flights to LHR, but that doesn't bother CO that much, because they have seats on all VS aircraft from EWR and JFK to LHR!!
AA wishes they were as large as CO in NY...and while we're at it, they wish they were as good an airline as we are!