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American Rejects Pilot Union's Contract Proposals  
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3100 posts, RR: 10
Posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2357 times:

After reading the writeup below I can understand the pilot's wish to return to 1992 pay levels via a 50% pay increase which is included in the current labor negotiation with American Airlines. However having said that everybody here knows that proposal won't fly. I know that pilots along with other AA employees and employees of most other airlines we know of have made big time sacrifices to keep their respective airline in operation. This is the usual position for the employees. It is based on and stated as fact which it is.

Unfortunately this time with the big time uncertainty in oil prices hammering away a little bit more on a daily basis I don't personally believe a proposal of this specific percentage of increase can be approved. Hopefully a medium fall back position will be agreed upon.

However it should be noted that the management who frequently receives a generous financial parachute for those executives who leave the company should be absolutely barred from receiving said fortunes for the same reasons given to all other airline employees during this oil crisis.

Obviously there is much more to these negotiations than the above points. The writeup will explain in more detail.

Courtesy: Associated Press
American Rejects Pilot Union's Contract Proposals
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080527/american_airlines_pilots.html?.v=5

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSeattle Ops From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2322 times:

I wonder how many AA pilots will be laid off ths fall? They sure don't have a lot of leverage, in fact AA would probably lose less money per day if the pilots went on strike than operating with crazy fuel prices.

User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5025 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2205 times:

I think it would be wise forthe pilots to accept a contract extension for a year or two, until this oil crunch plays itself out. If anything, they should just keep going off of the old contract, and maybe accept a signing bonus. I understand the pilots want a better contract, and I stand by them fully. But, I am sure they understand that the current market does not warrant fat increases in pay, bonuses, and so on. If anything, AA will need to start asking for wage concessions again. I really hope this works out for AA. It really seems like AA is taking a hell of a hit lately.


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineFreequentFlier From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 896 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2154 times:

AA's pilots seem to be of the belief that their pay will return to the pay of the "glory years". That isn't going to happen - today, tomorrow or ever. Suggesting 50% pay increases in light of $130/barrel fuel just reduces their credibility.

User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7550 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2126 times:

There the union goes once again demanding the impossible. Not surpriseing. Theyve always tried to demand the impossible while showing a lack of maturity doing it. It doesnt matter that AA is losing money or that were in the dark ages of our industry. I guess some things never change.

What needs to happen is for the pilots to get whats fair (which isnt much more than theyre getting right now) while at the same time lifting the stupid distance restriction that the Union has in place. I also think Upper Management needs to agree to some sort of pay cut. If youve been making 10 million, but you now make 7 million (as an example), big deal, youre not starveing. If AA is bound to a certain distance, they will never be able to truly expand.

[Edited 2008-05-27 20:56:57]


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2560 posts, RR: 53
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2013 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 4):
while at the same time lifting the stupid distance restriction that the Union has in place.

What distance rule is that?

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3655 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1941 times:
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Quoting HAL (Reply 5):
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 4):
while at the same time lifting the stupid distance restriction that the Union has in place.

What distance rule is that?

The one that caused AA to change their bid for DFW-PVG to ORD-PVG.


User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1904 times:

If the AA finds itself in a strike, could devastate the airline. With the trimming of flights, we're going to see layoffs, I"m sure. Wonder how that will effect the negotiations.

Wonder how the AA board will deal with executive compensation in this era. That should be interesting to see.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineJustPlaneNutz From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 519 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1868 times:



Quoting Davescj (Reply 7):
Wonder how the AA board will deal with executive compensation in this era. That should be interesting to see.

They renewed the exec. comp. plan, that's how.


User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1865 times:



Quoting JustPlaneNutz (Reply 8):
They renewed the exec. comp. plan, that's how.

That should promise some major fireworks in the negotiations. The mood is already foul, I can't imagine it getting much worse.


But I've been wrong before.

Any major dramas in the renewal, as in 40 Million all around ?

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineN659AA From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1694 times:

Even the APA knows that their existing proposal is a non-starter. I think they are simply trying to make the point that they are upset at management's compensation plan. The timing of the announcement regarding mgt's renewal of its compensation plan flies in the face of sensible logic. What possible good does AA mgt think that such an announcement would create??? Why does such an announcement have to come RIGHT on the heels of significant capacity cuts and eventual job losses. Someone please explain this logic to me.

If I had to pick a side (which I don't), I would have to side with mgt, but for the love of Mike, can they not be smarter about the example they set for the rest of the company? I am fully behind executive retention programs, but they suck at doing a decent job of explaining the justification for it to the rank-and-file. Labor has good reason to be very upset. Mgt must recognize this and do much better damage control.

There is no more important time for mgt and labor to come together at AA. I pray that cooler heads will prevail before it is too late.


User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1679 times:



Quoting KarlB737 (Thread starter):
However it should be noted that the management who frequently receives a generous financial parachute for those executives who leave the company should be absolutely barred from receiving said fortunes for the same reasons given to all other airline employees during this oil crisis.

I couldn't agree more. I also think there are a bunch of executives who are getting paid a whole lot more than they're worth (I won't mention any names).

Quoting N659AA (Reply 10):
There is no more important time for mgt and labor to come together at AA.

Very true.



Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1601 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 4):
What needs to happen is for the pilots to get whats fair (which isnt much more than theyre getting right now) while at the same time lifting the stupid distance restriction that the Union has in place.

So you are now the arbiter of what is fair? Has anyone stopped to look at what the 1992 pay levels are actually worth in todays devalued dollars? The following article, while several years old, does a good job of demonstrating how pilot pay rates have failed to keep up with inflation. http://www.landings.com/_landings/stories/captainicarus.html

Finally, if you actually read and understood the article, you would see that the pay scales are the throw away issue. The real interest is ensuring that the pension plan stays funded.



Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17420 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1586 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 4):
If youve been making 10 million, but you now make 7 million (as an example), big deal, youre not starveing.

No one is making a $10 million base salary at AA.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 4):
What needs to happen is for the pilots to get whats fair (which isnt much more than theyre getting right now) while at the same time lifting the stupid distance restriction that the Union has in place.

What needs to happen for the pilots is for them to get the raise they demand, followed by a trip through bankruptcy court so they can see first hand how stupid they've been. I think they might get teh bankruptcy trip regardless, but I can't think of a group more deserving than the APA.



E pur si muove -Galileo
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