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Former EADS CEO Noel Forgeard In Custody  
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3901 posts, RR: 5
Posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11535 times:

Breaking news here on German TV:

Reuters is reporting that French police have arrested EADS CEO Noel Forgeard (former airbus CEO) as a result of the insider trading allegations.

No further information so far. At this point I would treat it as rumour.



UPDATE: French sources either report an "arrest" or an "interrogation". Situation is a bit confusing as it was already known yesterday that there would be an interrogation. Not sure if this has led to an arrest today or if the media are simply over-interpreting things.

UPDATE2: From what I understand the rumour about an arrest stems from the fact that Forgeard has left the office where the interrogation took place without Forgeard. Whatever that means.

[Edited 2008-05-28 03:43:17]

74 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAF2323 From France, joined Aug 2007, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11468 times:

Well, an interrogation was scheduled to take place this morning, but it seems like the police want him to stay longer...
He is now in "garde a vue" (police custody?), and will likely be charged at the end of it.


User currently offlineJetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2646 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11462 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Yikes. This might hurt Eads stock a bit.
Keep us updated.
Blue



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3901 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11421 times:

Appears as if he has to spend the night in jail:

http://today.reuters.fr/news/NewsArt...ICE-EADS-FORGEARD-VUE-20080528.XML


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12877 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11426 times:

Sounds like he is in deep trouble and likely will spend some time in jail. I suspect that he was brought in to be confronted with the main evidence and hopefully give a confession. It is good that some crooked CEO gets busted for ripping of the company and shareholders.

User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4360 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11390 times:

Good news, and strong motivation for everybody who works honestly!

User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3901 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11255 times:

Aren't there some other EADS folk accused of insider trading as well, including some active top brass? Might be only the beginning...

[Edited 2008-05-28 04:20:05]

User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11171 times:



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 4):
It is good that some crooked CEO gets busted for ripping of the company and shareholders.

 checkmark 
I don't know if Forgeard did or did not indulge in insider trading. Even if he did, it still has to be proved legally before it is held to be a fact.

If it is proved, I hope he gets a heavy punishment. And I hope that any others who committed the same offence get the same severe treatment.


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11081 times:

The French term"Garde à vue" or "Untersuchungshaft" allows to keep a detainée for two days-after that delay he has to be officially indicted or released.
As it seems the facts are quite strong to keep him in jail for some time..
It's time that French judges to their job in this rotten "affaire.."


http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/dep...ches/infojour/reuters.asp?id=71880



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineIkarus2006 From Netherlands, joined Apr 2006, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10866 times:



Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 3):
Appears as if he has to spend the night in jail:

Oops, with no IFE system and no turn-down service? He must have done some wrong booking...


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10823 times:

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 6):
Aren't there some other EADS folk accused of insider trading as well, including some active top brass?

About 14 others, including several current top people (plus the Lagardere and Daimler-Chrysler companies) are 'under investigation':-

(excerpts - link to full story below)

"Other Airbus executives named in the October report included Fabrice Brégier, now the chief operating officer; John Leahy, the head of customer relations; and Tom Williams, the head of aircraft programs.

--------------

"According to EADS's internal regulations, directors may only exercise their stock options during specified three-week periods each quarter, provided that they do not have any privileged information and subject to prior approval by the company compliance officer.

"Such an options period was opened between Nov. 9 and Nov. 29, 2005. During that window, a number of top EADS board members exercised options to sell EADS shares, including Forgeard, who made a profit of around €603,000, or about $944,000 at current exchange rates. Regulatory filings also state that Enders made €711,750; Ralph Crosby, chief executive of EADS North America, received €1.35 million; and Jean-Paul Gut, then EADS's chief operating officer, made €667,500.

"The next quarter, Forgeard and several of his children together exercised options worth nearly €10 million from March 9 to March 15, 2006, earning more than €2.5 million."


http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/04/01/business/eads.php?page=1

[Edited 2008-05-28 05:56:38]


"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10358 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10714 times:

Very good. There are enough overpaid managers who seem to get away with everything, get a golden handshake and have their former employess end up at the job-center. High time a famous name like Forgeard has to pay back for his wrong-doings.

User currently offlineWorldrider From Switzerland, joined Nov 2007, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10714 times:



Quoting Burkhard (Reply 5):
Good news, and strong motivation for everybody who works honestly!



Quoting NA (Reply 11):
Very good. There are enough overpaid managers who seem to get away with everything, get a golden handshake and have their former employess end up at the job-center. High time a famous name like Forgeard has to pay back for his wrong-doings.

i can't agree more  champagne  good to see that sometimes justice applies for the ricchie riches also. well, before any conclusion, let's see where he ends up at the end of the year.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
plus the Lagardere and Daimler-Chrysler companies

that would be even more surprising  flamed  maybe they picked Forgeard for the show and keep the later in the "box".


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5666 posts, RR: 47
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 10492 times:

Well considering that Forgeard is very well connected politically I think the French authorities must have some very damadging evidence against him. If the evidence was circumstancial or very weak I don't thnk there's a law enforcement officer in France who'd risk both testicles in bringing him in. I mean the guy is (was) close to the former Frnech president so he has some clout!


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7912 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 10335 times:



Quoting NYC777 (Reply 13):
Well considering that Forgeard is very well connected politically I think the French authorities must have some very damadging evidence against him. If the evidence was circumstancial or very weak I don't thnk there's a law enforcement officer in France who'd risk both testicles in bringing him in.

Ever heard of separation of powers? Of course you need more than a mere "weird feeling" to take somebody in custody and be it for only 48 hours or less. Authorities are probably more careful with taking a well-known head into custody, because every newspaper will shed a bad light on the officers in charge if they err.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 11918 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 10279 times:



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
Other Airbus executives named in the October report included Fabrice Brégier, now the chief operating officer; John Leahy, the head of customer relations; and Tom Williams, the head of aircraft programs.

That paints a pretty ugly picture in my head - hope it isn't where things end up....



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2822 posts, RR: 42
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 10250 times:



Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 6):
Aren't there some other EADS folk accused of insider trading as well, including some active top brass? Might be only the beginning...

Usually you only bother with the lower people to get to the top people. If they start with Forgeard, they think they have a solid case on him.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 13):
Well considering that Forgeard is very well connected politically I think the French authorities must have some very damadging evidence against him.

He was well connected, but bear in mind his connection was with Mr. Chirac. He and Mr. Sarkozy have never been friendly, and despite separation of powers, that can't have helped his chances.


User currently offlineFruitbat From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 548 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9970 times:



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 4):
Sounds like he is in deep trouble and likely will spend some time in jail. I suspect that he was brought in to be confronted with the main evidence and hopefully give a confession. It is good that some crooked CEO gets busted for ripping of the company and shareholders.



Quoting NA (Reply 11):
High time a famous name like Forgeard has to pay back for his wrong-doings.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? I'd be careful with comments like these (and many of the others above), as they could be libellous - and should M.Forgeard not be charged, or be tried and found innocent, his lawyers may well be on the warpath and looking for revenge....  Smile



Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel.
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 9800 times:

If anyone wants to check the full picture on share dealings by board members during the period leading up to the announcement of the A380 delays, details of filings are on here:-

http://www.eads.com/1024/en/corporat...rnance/ITR/directors_dealings.html

In Forgeard's case he didn't just sell his own holdings in March 2006 - his wife ('M. Forgeard') and his three kids ('Fam, Forgeard') also sold shares.

I think I read that EADS have recently stopped giving senior people share options.........  Smile



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2991 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 9798 times:



Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 3):

http://today.reuters.fr/news/NewsArt...8.XML

English version:

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssI...UtilitiesNews/idUSL286228120080528



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineRuscoe From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1515 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 9799 times:

What are the chances of offering Foregeard a deal to tell all he knows about others involvement.

Do European Jurisdictions do "Deals"?

Ruscoe


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 9800 times:



Quoting NYC777 (Reply 13):
Well considering that Forgeard is very well connected politically I think the French authorities must have some very damadging evidence against him.

Or someone more politically connected was screwed over by Forgeard's actions.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 14):
Authorities are probably more careful with taking a well-known head into custody, because every newspaper will shed a bad light on the officers in charge if they err.

I don't think they are too concerned about bad media, because much of the media likes to see wealthy and powerful people taking a fall. I would imagine they are more concerned with his lawyers.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24625 posts, RR: 86
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9800 times:
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Quoting NAV20 (Reply 18):
his wife ('M. Forgeard')

Not to nitpick, but wouldn't "M. Forgeard" be "Monsieur Forgeard"?

His wife would Mme. Forgeard, surely?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9439 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 22):
Not to nitpick

I'm afraid that you are, Mariner. If you click on the entry you'll get a .pdf version of the detailed form.

Mme. Marie Forgeard.........  Smile



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24625 posts, RR: 86
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9205 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 23):
Mme. Marie Forgeard.........  

That clears that up. Thanks.  Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 Post contains links and images NAV20 : Cheers, Mariner......   Looks like Forgeard's being held for another night. This story also strongly suggests that Forgeard (and maybe others) may ha
26 MadameConcorde : This is good they got him but he is not the only one concerned.They should give all the names. Noel F. is out of luck with that Corsican lady Judge. I
27 NAV20 : Personally I don't much care what happens to Forgeard and the rest of his gutless boardroom colleagues, MadameConcord. The damage is done. My sympathi
28 NA : I´ll never understand the greediness of some ( actually many) people who´ve already dozens of millions of Euros on the bank. With a fortune like For
29 MadameConcorde : What bugs me most are his declarations of innocence. He said he has done nothing, no insider trading.
30 Ruscoe : Does anyone think it is remotely possible he is telling the truth, and was not aware of the seriousness of the situation when he sold the shares. Bef
31 Post contains links Zeke : He has been charged and released. "Former EADS co-chief executive Noel Forgeard has been charged with insider trading over selling company stock in th
32 Post contains links NAV20 : Of course it's (barely) possible, Ruscoe - but to my mind it wouldn't make much difference in business terms. If he knew, he broke the law; if he did
33 Wsp : So basically they are charging him for knowing about a 2 months delay? While that may or may not still be illegal this is completely detached from th
34 Ruscoe : I guess that was my proposed defense, that things were that "appalling" that they were not aware, at the time, that the problems could result in a si
35 XT6Wagon : If its true that he was unaware of the situation, then there is OTHER legal issues he would face stemming from being completely unaware of anything h
36 Mham001 : It would be interesting to know how the Bae sale fit into all this. That one smelled badly at the time.
37 Post contains links NAV20 : Agree with that, Ruscoe. The court cases will drag on for years, and all sorts of people will have to testify on oath as to what was discussed at tha
38 Ruscoe : Well at least it appears to have been a good decision for BAE shareholders. Ruscoe
39 Osiris30 : BAE had been looking to unload for quite a while if memory serves, and it just went through during that time, but they had announced their intention
40 Vfw614 : Forgeard has been released early Friday morning after 35 hours of questioning. He has been charged for insider trading and now faces up to two years i
41 NAV20 : Different situation - BAE were just exercising a 'put option' that they'd held since the beginning of their association with EADS. That's in no sense
42 AR385 : Usually, the stereotype is that this type of thing only happens in the thrid world, in my case that being Latin America. A lot of people from Europe a
43 Ikramerica : Which is the point. BAE had a window they had to fit into. So the major stockholders in EADS that wanted to sell did so before the news, and then the
44 Baroque : And it could be the case as Ruscoe wrote: All true but even more interesting is that the rules on when you could sell prescribed the time window. Did
45 Wsp : What correlation is there between the EADS stock price and the price that was determined by the independant auditors for the BAE share in Airbus?
46 Wsp : The quote NAV20 provided makes specific claims about the state of knowledge in March. If they assumed a mere delay of two months as indicated by the
47 Revelation : I agree it'd be hard to ever sell, because by definition the CEO should be working with privileged information all the time. Here's the quote from ab
48 NAV20 : But the least Forgeard could (or should) have done is to order a full, urgent enquiry. By all accounts, he didn't. Steady, now. Six out of twelve Exe
49 Baroque : Probably not. That about sums it up. And if Forgeard gets potted, how do the US rules stack up. You would have to hope there were no B execs selling
50 Ikramerica : Sure you can. You just can't do it in this order: 1 learn of/discern problems 2 sell (or buy) 3 reveal problems to shareholders the proper procedure
51 XT6Wagon : In the US they have thier butt covered decently well by the fact that problems large and small were in the media. It goes a long way to avoiding the
52 Baroque : Maybe. Actually, we knew what we knew. But we did't know what it was we did not know that they, at that time did know. Old Rumsfeld does come in hand
53 Wsp : Between a) noticing that the wiring is wrong, b) informing higher-ups up to F c) analyzing where the mistake originated d) informing higher-ups up to
54 Baroque : It would sound good to me, especially if the side-dish was a lower change of being put in the slammer, clink or whatever. The earlier parts of your p
55 Ikramerica : If you sold right before you revealed the news, it would look improper and come back to haunt you. If you disclose the news then decide how to act, t
56 Revelation : Yes, but that's all that's being discussed publicly, whereas we don't know what the French proscecutors know. Maybe they are swimming in faxes and e-
57 Wsp : You are assuming that they sold because they expected a stock devaluation due to the problems. But the unusually high stock valuation alone would be
58 XT6Wagon : I think it should be noted that the insider trading issue isn't WHEN the shares were sold, it was the intentional delay of bad news till after the sel
59 Post contains links NAV20 : The Wall Street Journal seems to have got itself a pretty comprehensive leak from someone. The reference to a 'far less optimistic' forecast being ava
60 Baroque : Interesting post Wsp, the A400M adds a frisson of possible state secrets too. I wonder what the information system is that is set in place in relatio
61 NAV20 : Irrelevant to Forgeard's chances, Baroque, the options scheme was in full swing in his day. In fact, in one sense the whole question of what happens
62 Baroque : Better late than never still does not mean "you" benefit by whatever it is that is BLTN. If, however, the truncation was brought in because the previ
63 Post contains links Beaucaire : When the shi.t hits the fan - we are only at the very beginning of a major investigation-and I have to give credit to the French investigators for onc
64 Revelation : I'm not sure what you are getting at. Are you saying you have some knowledge that Boeing executives have traded on insider information? Insider trade
65 NAV20 : Couldn't agree more, Revelation. Only thing to add is that if the Executive really did what the prosecutors suspect (hushed up problems with the A380
66 Beaucaire : No-that was not my direction - but nobody can explain to me how come that during the roll-out of the 787 "Potemkin-shell" Boeing officials did knowin
67 Post contains links Revelation : They spun the truth. I've recently posted how Bair said at the time, "We have no intentions to be late into service". Ref: http://seattlepi.nwsource.
68 Vfw614 : I guess he is mixing up "insider trading" (criminal law issue) with a "duty to disclose" (corporate and capital market law issue).
69 Ikramerica : And it will be interesting to look at, but to me it seems that Boeing did report during each required filing the state of the aircraft at that time.
70 Post contains links NAV20 : Some leaks of Forgeard's testimony here. Sounds like the whole management 'team' was quarrelling like a primary school class all summer:- "Forgeard an
71 Wsp : I also found this quote very telling: Looks like it's time get some popcorn and enjoy the show. Looks like this is turning into a full blown soap oper
72 Revelation : This is very interesting, as well as your earlier quote: I would think all of these people have better things to be concerned about, like how to fina
73 NAV20 : My own opinion is that he's just acting 'in character,' Revelation. I don't expect that any of us felt that, even in his heyday, Forgeard was in any
74 Post contains links NAV20 : How right you were, Revelation - looks like Humbert will be starring in next week's episode. "Gustav Humbert, the former chief executive of Airbus, h
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