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Is The DHL/UPS Tie-up The End Of ABX & Astar?  
User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 855 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8804 times:

With the announced DHL/UPS North America tie-up in which UPS will move DHL express packages on 5X metal, does this mean the end of Astar and ABX providing DHL with North American lift?

65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMiller22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 721 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8781 times:

That is the question running through DHL offices here in ILN. Did we just lose our jobs?

User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 855 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8781 times:

NICE! I used to work for AFC and it is amazing how DHL squandered our whole US operation.

User currently offlineBriboy From Canada, joined Jul 2001, 367 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8783 times:



Quoting JohnClipper (Thread starter):
With the announced DHL/UPS North America tie-up in which UPS will move DHL express packages on 5X metal, does this mean the end of Astar and ABX providing DHL with North American lift?

I would say so, from the Deutsche Post World Net Press Release:

As one central part of its restructuring activities, DHL and UPS will pursue a contract to provide air uplift, creating a single airline partner for DHL Express in the U.S. DHL will continue to operate its courier and ground network as well as pickup and delivery services to its customers across the country. The proposed agreement, in character and scope representing an efficient model in the express industry, will extend for 10 years. The commencement of UPS service into the DHL network is expected to begin later this year.
(emphasis mine)

-Brian



next up: YYC, SFO, SYD, AKL, WLG, CMB, BKK, SIN, FRA, VCE, JFK
User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8664 times:

No, ABXHoldings is very strong right now. I got a feeling the DHL will tide some of the growth, but ABX was a strong Cargo airline before DHL and can be the same after  Smile

User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10655 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8635 times:



Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 4):

I thought DHL was the majority stockholder in ABX, no?



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4616 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8597 times:

I believe we'll see several of the ABX aircraft move from ILN up to TOL and start flying for BAX with the agreement they have.

User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8592 times:

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/080528/20080528005993.html?.v=1

ATSG says based on the removal of 39 DC9s from the fleet, 500 would lose their jobs. A lot of things going on in this industry. I wonder if any of the DC9s could make their way to flying for BAX/Schenker to some smaller cities? That's just a pipe dream, I realize that, but would be nice to see.


User currently offlineFXRA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 713 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8571 times:



Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 4):
No, ABXHoldings is very strong right now. I got a feeling the DHL will tide some of the growth, but ABX was a strong Cargo airline before DHL and can be the same after

Unless ABX expands into a new market, think you'll see a huge reduction. Prior to DHL, ABX was Airborne Express and came with it's own pick-up and delivery system. That has since been bought by DHL/Duetsche Post. With the express volume going to UPS metal, ABX (and Astar ) would have to either establish their ground networks or move to an airport-to-airport system only.

I think you will see ABX and Astar pick up some charters or ACMI agreements, but i would expect an overall reduction in fleet and size. Doesn't ABX have an agreement to fly freight for some one (Al Nippon?) in Japan?



Visualize Whirled Peas
User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4179 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8503 times:
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Quoting FXRA (Reply 8):
Doesn't ABX have an agreement to fly freight for some one (Al Nippon?) in Japan?

My somewhat old information on this tells me ABX has two 767s flying for ANA Cargo.

Quoting Mayor (Reply 5):
I thought DHL was the majority stockholder in ABX, no?

Definitively not. DHL is a German company, and as such not allowed to have a majority holding (or control) in a US carrier. Astar is owned by ex DHL USA executives and some banks. I don't know who owns ABX Air, but it certainly is not DHL.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8485 times:

http://www.abxair.com/atsg/pr2008-05-19-abx.htm

ABX says of a renewal w/ DHL was in the works as of May 19th. Looks like DHL backed out!

[Edited 2008-05-28 09:58:11]

User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1295 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8459 times:

I remember something that became public about a year ago. After DHL had bought Airborne Express they assumed that ABX would listen to what DHL said and act just like any other part of DHL. Not pretend to be selfgoverned and take own initiatives and look to themselves first and foremost.
After all the only reason that ABX wasnt an inhouse operation was US legislation on foreign ownership of airlines.

ABX management decided their newfound freedom was great and started a row with its principal and almost only customer. A customer that controls over 80% of their business. Great move...

Then I watched tele and read in newspapers that ABX representatives sais they thought this row wouldnt cause any future problems between the two companies. I just shook my head and thought that within two years ABX management would be out on its head or DHL would sell out.
A three month mudslinging match and arbitration doesnt do great for trust and longterm relationships.

Espescially when you add that the one customer you are dragging to court is foreign and not used to the courts as the main way of settling disputes. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you!

Cultural management programs exists for a reason.

The sad part is that as always its good staff that get affected from stubborn and shortsighted management. I wish all the people ABX well and I hope that their management thinks twice before pissing off their number one client if they ever again gets in a management position.



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1295 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8448 times:

And now I see that their second most promising client is BAX / Schenker.
Schenker is owned by DB, Deutsche Bahn, the German railways.

So lets hope management have learnt their lesson and invested in a cultural management course...



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4179 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8433 times:
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Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 10):
ABX says of a renewal w/ DHL was in the works as of May 19th. Looks like DHL backed out!

That could make things interesting. If you read the press release from top to bottom, you will see that the agreement between ABX Air and DHL was to renew automatically unless either side gave the other notice at least 90 days before the date of renewal. The ABX Air press release states that no such notice was issued before the 90-day period, so the agreement is renewed! My guess is DHL will go along with renewing it for a year, although the volume sent to ABX will slowly be decreasing as UPS carriage ramps up. After all, switching from ABX to UPS isn't as simple as giving the delivery fleet the address of the new sorting center...



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2607 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8314 times:



Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 13):
My guess is DHL will go along with renewing it for a year, although the volume sent to ABX will slowly be decreasing as UPS carriage ramps up. After all, switching from ABX to UPS isn't as simple as giving the delivery fleet the address of the new sorting center...

I believe you are correct here - the internal memo I saw said that DHL hoped to begin using UPS by end of the year. That means they still need ABX for at least a while. Nothing in any of the internal memos or the public press release says anything at all about ABX/Astar so I can't offer a definitive answer.


User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 8283 times:

Astar I think is in serious trouble - I don't think there is room for an on-demand start-up cargo operation of their size in the US.

ABX has other options, but losing DHL volume will definitely hurt and cause layoffs and fleet cuts.


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8196 times:

It seems weird that a huge airfield would just get seemingly mothballed. A huge loss for the Wilmington/Clinton County community as well.

User currently offlineScrumpy492003 From Canada, joined Jul 2007, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8198 times:

How will this affect the DHL 727's operating in Canada ? YYC - Calgary especially ?

Will this new company fly these routes also - or even repaint the DHL a/c ?

Of course, I could always ask my sister in Belgium, whose husband is reasonably high up in DHL Finance there, BUT maybe that's a company secret.

I suggested to him once that perhaps DHL should follow other operators and add winglets to their 727's, and take advantage of the fuel davings etc., he approached the Aviation Dividion and was basically told to mind his own F****** business and let the aviation Dept look after themselves!!

That surprised me, because IF the savings weren't substantial, then the winglets wouldn't have been added in the first place right ?
Maybe they weren't in the air long enough for the savings to really show up.



peter b95 c-ghfu
User currently offlineScrumpy492003 From Canada, joined Jul 2007, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8196 times:

I'm sorry,
I did use spellcheck, and did the changes!!

Peter



peter b95 c-ghfu
User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8194 times:



Quoting Scrumpy492003 (Reply 17):
How will this affect the DHL 727's operating in Canada ? YYC - Calgary especially ?

Will this new company fly these routes also - or even repaint the DHL a/c ?

What exactly do you mean by new company?? It will still be DHL Express with their freight moving on board UPS aircraft instead. I highly doubt UPS would paint any of their aircraft in DHL colors.

Regarding the winglets on the 727's I do not believe that they will be added because even with whatever minor cost benefit they may receive, the price of fuel and the age of the 27's will just end their career. Also you can ask someone with DHL in Europe about the fleet in the US but they will have NO say or any idea what will be done as these aircraft belong to ASTAR, I know DP holds 49 percent shares, but only ASTAR can decide if it is financially viable to do this.


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5339 posts, RR: 23
Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 7950 times:

Couple of thoughts: (1) Who will do the sort? If DHL, then where? ILN? SDF? The USPS delivers full containers to FDX and UPS and unloads them itself at destination. Those containers bypass the sort. Would DHL do the same thing? Sort at ILN, drive the A-containers that it loves so much over to UPS at SDF? (2.5 hours away?) Have a fleet fly them 20 minutes to SDF? Build yet another disasterous auto-sort near SDF? Sort locally like USPS does? Whatever they do, it's going to have to be a substantially-revised model.

(2) UPS took about a year longer than expected, IIRC, to swallow the Emery/Menlo heavyweight network. DHL may have to keep ABX around longer than it plans.

(3) Different lift model will allow afternoon freight to actually go next-afternoon. Right now, most of it flies out with the express and often gets delivered at the same early time as express. A nice feature of using DHL.

(4) The big problem with DHL was not the airlift network, which ABX actually operated very well for them, and in which ABX actually helped recover a lot of flights on the former DHL Airways (AStar). ABX operated on a cost-plus basis, and the ABX folks were actually legendary for their ability to pinch a penny. So I'm hard-pressed to see how it's going to be appreciably-cheaper or appreciably-more-reliable to use a competitor's air network, except for --sigh at B-school word -- "synergy" or "economy of scale". Yeah, maybe. But maybe not. That USPS won't disclose how much more it costs to use FDX is a bad sign as to the price they are paying.

(5) The big problem WAS the crappy local contract delivery that DHL used in a lot of locations. That's where contracts were lost as stuff was stolen, delivery guys forged on-time delivery receipts, service couldn't keep up with promises, etc. The kind of major-center to major-center deliveries that I use DHL for work just fine, and the folks in NYC (ex-Airborne) are generally reliable and nice. But ask Dell about the customer satisfaction with home delivery to smaller locations...not. Business-to-business, OTOH, was something that DHL did very, very well for some clients (i.e. game-console rollout).

(6) There was some talk that some Asian operators may welcome the C-containers and some DC9s as a quick way to ramp up operations, so ABX may find some opportunities abroad for some of its fleet. The 762s are in high demand, particularly the ones with full cargo doors, so ABX may be able to get some good long-term wet-lease business for them. Meanwhile, it can start cutting cargo doors in some of its 762 fleet if it can find business for them. The book value of $19 million for the whole DC9 fleet means that DHL can write a check for that amount and walk way from that fleet in its entirety. Why it prefers 3-crew gas-guzzling 727s to the 9s for its operation is a mystery, but I guess it does.

I don't see how this is more than a finger in the dam (or a giant hole punched in it) that doesn't address the real reason customers didn't return to DHL after initially giving it a lot of new business when it ramped up the US -- the local delivery.

PS I'm sure the ABX crews will continue to act professionally and the freight will continue to get delivered, just as it did for Menlo. However, asking someone to bust their butt when you have just screwed them is not usually conducive to a high level of performance. OTOH, DHLidiots have blamed ABX for everything under the sun -- their moronic weekend hub consolidation, complete with new city codes, that ABX told them not to do, the breakdown of their gee-whiz autosort, etc. So maybe the new excuse will be that the ABX people no longer give a crap about whether DHL's packages get there.


User currently offlineFXRA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 713 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7911 times:



Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 20):
Couple of thoughts: (1) Who will do the sort? If DHL, then where? ILN? SDF? The USPS delivers full containers to FDX and UPS and unloads them itself at destination. Those containers bypass the sort. Would DHL do the same thing? Sort at ILN, drive the A-containers that it loves so much over to UPS at SDF? (2.5 hours away?) Have a fleet fly them 20 minutes to SDF? Build yet another disasterous auto-sort near SDF? Sort locally like USPS does? Whatever they do, it's going to have to be a substantially-revised model.

Actually, not all the containers were bypassed. Most were but there was also a few mini-sort containers of mail that would be sorted at MEM on the 2 day sort. The overnight flights had containers that were actually built by Fedex personnel and sorted in MEM on the overnight sort. keep in mind this was at the beginning of the contract, so it may have changed. But as far as I know FedEx people sort the the USPS stuff at the hubs. As for the rest of that, no idea how they plan to do it.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 20):
(3) Different lift model will allow afternoon freight to actually go next-afternoon. Right now, most of it flies out with the express and often gets delivered at the same early time as express. A nice feature of using DHL.

My understanding is this is of package volume only, no mention of heavy freight. Since most UPS markets are not served by afternoon flights, i would expect that any DHL volume will be tendered in th early morning, and it will be up to DHL to decide when to deliver.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 20):
(4) The big problem with DHL was not the airlift network, which ABX actually operated very well for them, and in which ABX actually helped recover a lot of flights on the former DHL Airways (AStar). ABX operated on a cost-plus basis, and the ABX folks were actually legendary for their ability to pinch a penny. So I'm hard-pressed to see how it's going to be appreciably-cheaper or appreciably-more-reliable to use a competitor's air network, except for --sigh at B-school word -- "synergy" or "economy of scale". Yeah, maybe. But maybe not. That USPS won't disclose how much more it costs to use FDX is a bad sign as to the price they are paying.

Ahhh, synergy.. my favorite buzzword of modern industry. I nearly throw up in my mouth when I hear it. I think most of the volume, initially, will be worked into existing flights. The savings being that (if the DHL volume is to be sorted in the normal UPS system) a brown tail was going that way anyway with MT cans, why not throw this extra stuff on and make some money. While there is sure to be extra lift laid on as the volume transfers over, for the time being i wouldn't expect to see a sudden flurry of new flights.

Also, and this is my personal opinion (no numbers or real research to back it up), the C-containers left a lot of wasted space on an airplane, especially a 767. I would guess that a DC-9;s worth of C-container freight cold fit in 3 to 4 positions on a freighter using larger cans.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 20):
(6) There was some talk that some Asian operators may welcome the C-containers and some DC9s as a quick way to ramp up operations, so ABX may find some opportunities abroad for some of its fleet. The 762s are in high demand, particularly the ones with full cargo doors, so ABX may be able to get some good long-term wet-lease business for them. Meanwhile, it can start cutting cargo doors in some of its 762 fleet if it can find business for them. The book value of $19 million for the whole DC9 fleet means that DHL can write a check for that amount and walk way from that fleet in its entirety. Why it prefers 3-crew gas-guzzling 727s to the 9s for its operation is a mystery, but I guess it does.

The only advantage the 727 has over the DC-9 I can think of is the ability to hold standard 88"x125" based pallets an containers. That makes bypassing onto other carriers (say WOA MD-11's or Polar 747's) much easier. The DC-9 fuselage isn't wide enough to handle this size container (or you would see alot of MD-8x freighters being converted). I imagine that was the impetus of the C-containers for Airborne Express. I do agree the ABX 767's could be money makes in other markets, if configured for full size pallets.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 20):
I don't see how this is more than a finger in the dam (or a giant hole punched in it) that doesn't address the real reason customers didn't return to DHL after initially giving it a lot of new business when it ramped up the US -- the local delivery.

PS I'm sure the ABX crews will continue to act professionally and the freight will continue to get delivered, just as it did for Menlo. However, asking someone to bust their butt when you have just screwed them is not usually conducive to a high level of performance. OTOH, DHLidiots have blamed ABX for everything under the sun -- their moronic weekend hub consolidation, complete with new city codes, that ABX told them not to do, the breakdown of their gee-whiz autosort, etc. So maybe the new excuse will be that the ABX people no longer give a crap about whether DHL's packages get there.

Unless DHL tries to capitalize on the "known UPS reliability" in move their packages at a lower price, I don't see a change in their market position. There is some potential savings in the agreement (IMHO) and if properly exploited along with a revamp of ground ops and customer service could make DHL a bigger player. I wondered this when I was at FedEX and we took on the USPS volume, how much will you let you're competitor take market share away from you by using you're own equipment????

I think a major difference between the Menlo and the DHL/ABX/Astar employee groups, at least on the airline side, is that Menlo didn't own or operate it's own metal when UPS bought them. Here, ABX and Astar stand to loose a devasting amount of flying, and jobs, when UPS ramps up. (Statement on another internet forum from the UPS pilot union is to expect st see DC-8's pulled back into service soon). I can see it being hard for the current employees of ABX, Astar, and DHL being enthused facine a job loss. But I'm confident in their professionality.

It is interesting times we live in.



Visualize Whirled Peas
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5339 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7888 times:



Quoting FXRA (Reply 21):
But as far as I know FedEx people sort the the USPS stuff at the hubs.

Hmmm. My understanding is that almost the whole USPS contract is for container-loads that bypass the sort. As I'm sure you know, there are private contractors that do nothing but load and unload air containers for the USPS in proximity to airports. That Christmas mail contract that WOA used to participate in (run most recently by KHA before its demise), was unusual because, IIRC, it did involve some loading and unloading of containers at the KHA facility.

Quoting FXRA (Reply 21):
Also, and this is my personal opinion (no numbers or real research to back it up), the C-containers left a lot of wasted space on an airplane, especially a 767.

Rarely was any such space ever needed. The aircraft were neither weighting-out or bulking out. But maybe that's the point.

Quoting FXRA (Reply 21):
I imagine that was the impetus of the C-containers for Airborne Express.

Well, there is also the fact that they get loaded through the existing passenger door without need for a cargo door.


User currently offlineWarszawa From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 727 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7858 times:

Quite surprising, but not shocking really. With the current cost of fuel, I was wondering how DHL would survive in such a market with their current fleet of what are primarily gas-guzzling aged aircraft. 1.3 Billion in losses for a US Air-Express market is staggering.

Certainly UPS will need to increase lift once this goes into a fully-fledged operation next year. I can still see ABX and Astar continuing their operation until Mid, possibly Late, 2009. Figure the new 767's joining the UPS fleet beginning 2009, add in the 744F's falling into place also, more MD-11's taking on domestic lift. As UPS receives their 767's and 744F's, slowly ABX is weeded out of the parcel hauling for DHL. Thats the way it'll likely happen, anyways.

ABX will likely become more of a Bax Global, Murray Air, somewhat-like operation I believe. 767's will kept, DC-9's sold to Coca Cola and Pepsico Big grin Probably will get a lot of Asian contracts, along with South American contracts (particularly to MIA). Minor operation out of ILN, basically becoming like a Bax-Global DAY (Dayton) operation. ILN will likely become just a large Ground-Sorting facility (aside from raw-air freight via ABX). I could see UPS flights into ILN for Christmas 09 as a relief for SDF. Other than that, everything will be SDF (or RFD, PHL, etc., wherever UPS operates).

ASTAR will fade away completely in my opinion. DC-8's stored, A30B's scrapped, 722's scrapped, unless sold to foreign operators. Interesting read above where noted that UPS may retrieve some DC-8's from storage. I could see that happening, at least temporarily, beginning of 2009, depending on how quickly DHL integrates with UPS, or vice versa. The DC-8's may arrive temporarily for 4, 5, 6 months, until new 763's are slowly delivered to fill the void. Or, as I mentioned above, ABX continues to haul, until the 763's fall into place for UPS, slowly weeding out the ABX/Astar operation.

Fortunately with the introduction of more 744F's for UPS, more MD-11's will be serviced domestically, adding much more capacity to key markets. Couple that with the new 763's joining the UPS fleet starting in 2009, sounds to me they'll be fine by Summer 2009, assuming all goes well.

Out of curiosity, anyone know what'll happen to the DHL order for 6 767-300F's?

As far as DHL as a whole, i've always suspected DHL has been losing more and more business over the last several years to UPS and Fedex. There's always seemed to be many people partial to DHL, just because its "DHL". I've been shipping for the last 8 years almost daily and I can assure you that, if DHL screws up on a particular package (cant find address, packaged delayed a day, etc.) I almost always get some customer writing me immediately with a sadistic view on how much DHL "sucks". I've had UPS delay packages, as Fedex, yet these same customers are seemingly compliant when its delayed with those companies "Oh, its just human error, no problem". I rarely get people complaining when UPS or Fedex is late, however if DHL is late? I get scorned for using such a "poor" company that DHL is (and schooled on how I should be using UPS or Fedex instead).

I honestly have no idea why that is, UPS can screwup more packages than ever and people are still seemingly happy. "It happens". DHL? Completely opposite reaction. DHL screws up a single time, and people storm to the BBB to file complaints and write blogs about how sh**ty DHL is.

Theres a large "boycott" against DHL from Amazon customers also:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/forum/cd/di...&cdPage=1&cdThread=Tx2WJ2CDSTMRSZ0

I still use DHL to this day (actually my account is one of the old Airborne accounts, I signed up in late 2001) without issue. I honestly suspect the majority of complainst against DHL are bogus and actually have nothing to do with DHL at all, many are made up and overly exaggerated. Torn packages, the driver fed the letter to my dog, box was flat as a pancake - Please, i've been shipping via DHL for 8 years almost daily and have never heard of such ridiculous claims. I've also only have had maybe 5-6 damaged packages in nearly 8 years, all of which were seamlessly paid by DHL.

I have had service failures which almost exclusively occur on Air-packages (1 day delays usually), however, in the end, based on my volume DHL still has a 90% on-time success rate with my parcels, which meets the US average (right in line with Fedex and UPS). Some of the air-service failures are just unexplainable to me. I recall shipping 2 parcels on seperate dates to BOS, of which they flew FNT-ILN-BOS, getting scanned in BOS at 7am "Arrived at Sort Facility" (or whatever), then that would be it for the day. The next day, now a day late, "With Delivery Courier". Happend twice in the same week. How the hell do you screw that up? It gets to BOS at 7am, both packages do, on two different dates, both going out for delivery *the next day* for no reason. Oh well, fortunately I get reimbursed for those service failures.

They've recently lost my ground parcels because they cut my discounted rates without notice and refused to offer them again. Therefore, I went to UPS, and obtained a very nice discounted rate on all services. For Air, I still use DHL (primarily their "Ship Ready" prepaid service as most of what I ship is small), Ground is virtually 100% UPS now.

I will say DHL's billing department is atrocious. In January this year I received a letter from a collection agency (Yes, collections! On an 8-year airborne account paid on time every month for 8 years) on a $18.XX package dating back to a package on November 2006, almost a year and a half later. What the hell is that? A single package for $18.XX and they're getting a collection agency to mail me a letter? Nonetheless, I was really pi**ed considering i've had an account for 8 years, never any issues, and since November 2006, i've shipped every month, received monthly paper-statements with no mention of anything past-due. Nothing. Additionally, the package was from so long ago, the tracking # no longer worked, so I couldn't even tell whom it was to or where, as the letter from the collections agency only referenced the tracking number and a DHL reference number.

Quickest way to lose a companies business = File collections on an eighteen-dollar package from a year and a half prior, without any notice, no letters, no phone calls, no "past due's" on any invoices, nothing. Just a nice, threatening letter with a list of ramifications the next time you check your mailbox. Ridiculous. I just called DHL and paid the measely $18.XX via credit card in 2 minutes.

That, combined with the elimination of my discounts (without any notice) at the same time, had me switch to UPS the same week.



Flying a plane is no diff. from riding a bicycle. Its just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -'Airplane'
User currently offlineN747PE From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7818 times:

I wonder if UPS will convert some of the ABX fleet to handle UPS maindeck containers. I always felt it was a mistake not to put in a normal cargo door on the maindeck. I think ABX missed out on many charter ops.

25 Wjcandee : They were always going to be flown between the US and somewhere else, most likely Europe. Those plans won't change, I'm sure. I don't think that UPS
26 MCOflyer : Didn't DHL just order a sheet load of 763F's? Would this order be cancled? Hunter
27 RFields5421 : DHL aircraft do not fly in the US, only on international routes. DHL is not a US airline/ carrier, but contracts with ABX and Astar to carry their ca
28 ABXX75 : I work for ABX, and I was told that with this plan between DHL and UPS will be for 10 years ( which I doubt ). The only problem is that there will be
29 BlueFlyer : The planes were originally supposed to fly between the US and Europe. As UPS will handle only intra-US flights, there may be no change at all to the
30 FXramper : FX has been a 3rd party carrier for ER packages for some time now. Perfect example is the outsourced Dell contract. I see ER a/c (762) at ramps across
31 FXRA : Yes, the DHL aircraft yous see stateside are operated by ABX or Astar or some other US carrier, not by DHL airlines. There was a DHL airlines in the
32 RFields5421 : Okay you see Astar Air Cargo aircraft. ER isn't DHL. That's what we said. In DAL we see only GB aircraft painted in DHL colors - no ER aircraft. The
33 BlueFlyer : ABX Air, actually, Astar operates A300s and 727s, ABX Air operates 762s and DC9s.
34 Wjcandee : Exactly correct. On the former ABXA Yahoo! message board, the AStar people never missed an opportunity to insist that they were the "real" DHL airlin
35 MillwallSean : Its quite weird this that DHL who is the major player in the world is so small in the US. After all it started in the US. Does DHL have any regions in
36 Wjcandee : They'll keep using Polar for international stuff. They dumped (and basically put out of business) NWA Cargo for dedicated lift. They also have guaran
37 UPSMD11 : UPS has proven reliability year after year, that's why people use us. I am glad you've had good luck with DHL but you must realize that you are in th
38 Wjcandee : FWIW, the AP is now reporting that the DHL plan would be to eliminate the night sort at ILN, because UPS would do the sorting and the airlifting. That
39 RFields5421 : There is a bit of history which is getting lost. The name DHL World Wide Express / DHL Airways - started as an on-demand cargo airline providing cour
40 FX1816 : DHL 762's?? I don't think so, DHL does NOT operate a single aircraft in the U.S., they are operated by ABX and Astar. Also where do you get that this
41 JohnClipper : I still remember that at Airborne Express, our paychecks said "From our Customers" across it. That really got the point across!
42 Warszawa : Very true. More people will take the time to complain about poor service or problems than they would to go writeup a complimentary review on the serv
43 Tornado82 : In a county of roughly 40,000 total population... you better believe it. Absolutely devastating for the region. Furthermore, while there are tons of
44 Wjcandee : Thinking more about the latest news, I am just mystified by one aspect of this deal: DHL is not only contracting out the FLYING, they' re contracting
45 BlueFlyer : Good point, but the only data that the central sort really needs is a zip code. There is no need to make the rest of the package data UPS-readable to
46 Luv2cattlecall : Letter I got from DHL (sorry if it's already been posted elsewhere)
47 Luv2cattlecall : Translation: "On the aviation side, we will be working with a new air provider." That means: We don't have enough volume to run our own planes. Our vo
48 Legend11 : There seems to be a pattern here regarding German involvement in the US. After getting out of the the airline industry after 09/11, spent 3 years in a
49 SeaBosDca : That depends where you are. When I lived in Boston I quickly learned to make sure those shipping to me were using FedEx for everything. With UPS, the
50 Ouboy79 : The BAX/Schenker operation has been going extremely good so far. They had one of their top operations guys in TOL a couple weeks ago and did a 30 min
51 ABXX75 : Well here is what I just found out last night from ABX. All 39 DC9 aircraft will be shipped, painted and owned by UPS. DHL is going to take over ABX r
52 Ouboy79 : I thought both FedEx and UPS told Airbus to take a hike and cancelled the A380 orders.
53 Wjcandee : Good catch. Indeed, my understanding is that the A380F is kaput (at least for now).
54 SDF880 : As much as I like the DC-9 I really don't see UPS picking up 35-40 year old airframes here. Word around the campfire is nothing but widebody a/c in th
55 GEG2RAP : good catch? I think the whole post is campfire smoke, DC-9's are not exactly the fuel efficient model UPS would operate. Remember they will all be go
56 Legend11 : The BAX/Schenker operation has been going extremely good so far. They had one of their top operations guys in TOL a couple weeks ago and did a 30 min
57 Skyway1 : I'm a courier for Federal Express. The problem with DHL lies solely in it's frontline service. The use of local contractors for pickup/delivery servic
58 MSYtristar : How is it decided which carrier...ABX or ASTAR....serves a specific market? Is there a method to the madness? Take MSY. They see a 762 routing ILM-MSY
59 GEG2RAP : I couldn't agree more, I live in Yakima, WA and it take 3-5 days for our local carrier to get around to delivering next day packages (even though whe
60 MillwallSean : Hmm you might want to consider that DHL is almost double the size of FedEx and the world leader with a market presence that UPS and FedEx arent close
61 ER757 : FWIW, the bigwigs at Deutche Post have said they are finished with aquisitions for the forseeable future. Of couse, that "foreseeable future" could b
62 GEG2RAP : Can I add a word? North America not just the US, they have a large presence in Mexico but Canada and US are small
63 Warszawa : I noticed Yakima is near Central WA, but i'd suspect the majority are delays are because of DHL's GEG station. GEG shipments have been notoriously ho
64 Wjcandee : I was just talking about the A380 thing. I wasn't going to dispute the very-silly-sounding rumour about the DC9s, in part because the vast majority o
65 GEG2RAP : Our shipments are routed through BFI then on a puddle jumper to YKM, the major problem DHL has in the local contracted delivery guys, it always gets
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