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Any Plans Of KLM Retiring The 747's After AF?  
User currently offlineSWISSER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3825 times:

With AF retiring the 747's earlier than planned, will KLM follow as well?

Let's hope not...

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMeta From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3638 times:

I think they are keeping them for like 3 to 4 more years. They need to get some more 77W to replace them.

User currently onlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17005 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3622 times:

I doubt that they will retire them as soon as AF are doing. Remember, they still have the MD-11 fleet.


Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3556 times:

The first 4 77W's are for expansion. So far they have not ordered any aircraft to replace the 744's. But I suspect an order can't be that far off, their oldest 744 is nearing 20 years. That's usually when KL starts replacing their aircraft (747's anyway).


L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineFlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7379 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3550 times:

The future of KLM's fleet is similar to AF's fleet.

KLM may keep their B747 a bit longer than AF but I bet all KLM's B744 and of course MD11 will be retired before 2015.


User currently offlineLarSPL From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3424 times:

AFKL has announced they will place an order to replace all the 280-ish pax aircraft.
the 747 combi has around 280 pax as wel as the md11.
so expect an order next year to replace the 747's, md11's, and probably some a340's.



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User currently offlineMptpa From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3386 times:

KLM does not operate A340.

User currently offlinePetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3309 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3343 times:



Quoting Mptpa (Reply 6):
KLM does not operate A340.

This would be a joint KL/AF order so Air France would be replacing some A340s.



Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineHUYfan From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 1401 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3294 times:

I would expect a large A350 order from AF/KL.#

Regards

Mike


User currently offlineLarSPL From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3122 times:

the upcoming order is already subject of discussion in another thread


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User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2879 times:

The first two aircraft to go will be PH-BFA and PH-BFB which are tentatively scheduled for retirement after the summer schedule of 2012 ends, which would also be when their 4th D-check comes up. Both of these aircraft are full passenger versions and should be replaced by additional B77W capacity. The retirement of the rest of the 747 fleet will follow later, but I'd expect KLM to take a little more time to shed the entire fleet than AF.

User currently offlineFlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7379 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2771 times:



Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 7):
This would be a joint KL/AF order so Air France would be replacing some A340s.

KLM will not any longer place orders on its side and AF on its own side.
The fleet renewal plan is common to AF-KL, and placed under a single dedicated Department managed by an ex-KLM manager. So I guess if it was decided for AF to remove the B744, I don't see why it would be different for KL.


User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4650 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2611 times:



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 11):
So I guess if it was decided for AF to remove the B744, I don't see why it would be different for KL.

Because the requirements for AF (mostly full pax) and KL (mostly combi) are very different?



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineFlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7379 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2577 times:



Quoting JRadier (Reply 12):
Because the requirements for AF (mostly full pax) and KL (mostly combi) are very different?

They are not.
All the KLM -Combis are planned to be retired from service.
The needs in terms of capacity are similar, except for the A380 not needed by KLM.

AFKL will have a similar PAX long haul fleet within the next 10 years : B777, A332 and B787 or A350. + A380 for AF.

AFKL Cargo will be all B777F.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29690 posts, RR: 84
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2562 times:
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Quoting FlySSC (Reply 11):
So I guess if it was decided for AF to remove the B744, I don't see why it would be different for KL.



Quoting JRadier (Reply 12):
Because the requirements for AF (mostly full pax) and KL (mostly combi) are very different?

Bingo.

KL will likely replace their five 744s with additional 77Ws, since they can load them up with similar passenger and cargo loads and enjoy greater efficiencies.

As to the 74M fleet, I think a mix of 787-9s and 77Fs could really work here. The 787's can handle the passenger capacity (while still offering nice hold volumes) and the 77F fleet can do the heavy lifting that the 74M's were. Now, KL might decide to just fold it's cargo arm into AF and have AF fly more 77Fs, but I believe a KL Cargo 77F would be a sharp-looking plane.

I do admit the A350-900 is a better match in terms of passenger capacity and maximum to the 77E and M11 fleets. But in two classes the 787-9 would get reasonably close and offers more hold volume then the 77E/M11 and matches the A359. The 787-9 should also be very close (if not a bit better) then the M11 in terms of maximum payload.

We might see much the same fleet by manufacturer we see now - AF moving to the A350 and KL moving to the 787 - with the two airlines using the two families to complement each other.


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9570 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2526 times:



Quoting JRadier (Reply 12):
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 11):
So I guess if it was decided for AF to remove the B744, I don't see why it would be different for KL.

Because the requirements for AF (mostly full pax) and KL (mostly combi) are very different?

Correct. AF/KL can decide their fleet order combined but they both have different requirements and needs. Saying that KL will also get rid of the 744 because AF will because they fall under the same company is based on nothing. Both airlines have their own requirements and operate in and from different markets that happen to be able to co-exist together pretty well but that's it.

A388


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2470 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 14):
I do admit the A350-900 is a better match in terms of passenger capacity and maximum to the 77E and M11 fleets. But in two classes the 787-9 would get reasonably close and offers more hold volume then the 77E/M11 and matches the A359. The 787-9 should also be very close (if not a bit better) then the M11 in terms of maximum payload.

I really hope AFKL goes for the a350 for the sole reason that I am very sure KL will put 9 abreast in Y, and that will be a bit more comfortable in the a350. I'm flying blue gold, mostly on KL, but if all their Y sections are going to be as cramped as 10 abreast 77W or 9 abreast 787, I will have to go elsewhere. Except when going to PBM, KL is the only viable option on that route.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
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