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United Suspends LAX-MEX For 3mos.  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25846 posts, RR: 50
Posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5169 times:

United will suspend LAX-MEX service between September 2nd and December 18th.

UA in recent years(since loss of MX partnership) has struggled in this very competitive local market.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUnitedSuperDC8 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 84 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5138 times:

Is it possible to put all UA schedule changes in one thread? There will be a lot of changes and the threads will number too many.

How about "United Schedule Cuts"
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4005560/



No thanks - keep the 'Change'.....Al Gore invented two things: the internet & global warming
User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4658 times:

The September - November period is a slow period, so it's not a surprise they are suspending the flight for that period, but between November and December it picks up.

User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3936 times:



Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 2):
The September - November period is a slow period, so it's not a surprise they are suspending the flight for that period, but between November and December it picks up.

Yeah, but United seems to be targeting Los Angeles. First Hong Kong and now Mexico City, two of the most important destinations from LA. I guess that's why they're suspending it , too much competition....


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17690 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3756 times:

I think it's only reduced to once weekly during that period, not totally suspended.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7603 posts, RR: 42
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3580 times:

Makes sense because otherwise they may risk losing authority.

I have often seen rock-bottom fares from UA during the low season for MEX-LAX flights. I guess it is hard for them to compete against MX and AM in this route. MX is definitely the strongest with its God-knows-hoy-many daily flights.

Does anyone know if AS and AM have good yields in this route?



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4050 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3580 times:
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Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
think it's only reduced to once weekly during that period, not totally suspended.

It might as well be completely discontinued. MEX is a very important route. It seems UA has had a time with it since MX pulled out of Star. (BTW why did MX pull out of Star?)
Maybe AS will pick up the extra flight now that UA is going to do this.
Was the UA flight doing well-yield and load wise?


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3559 times:

Is another US airline likely to request the route authority be redesignated as a result of this?


Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6047 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3537 times:



Quoting Humberside (Reply 7):
Is another US airline likely to request the route authority be redesignated as a result of this?

It remains UAs as long as UA doesn't discontinue service for more then 90 days, after 90 it goes up for grabs.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25846 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3516 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 5):
I have often seen rock-bottom fares from UA during the low season for MEX-LAX flights. I guess it is hard for them to compete against MX and AM in this route. MX is definitely the strongest with its God-knows-hoy-many daily flights.

Indeed UA has not had much direction in the market the last few years. They have varied their schedules between 1-2 daily flights.

Unlike UA's other MEX flights(IAD, ORD, SFO) the LAX market is significantly more competitive where it seems the low frequency and loss of Mexicana affiliation has really hurt UA's standing.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 6):
Was the UA flight doing well-yield and load wise?

In 2007, UA averaged a 79% LF in the market.

But as EddieDude mentions much of this traffic could be a lower yield traffic. I know UA actively participates with many of the ethnic consolidators in the market.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 7):
Is another US airline likely to request the route authority be redesignated as a result of this?

No. UA is not dropping the route, just employing the same tactic others such as Delta do regularly suspending routes, or making them weekend only during slow periods.

Only if UA were to notify the DOT that is was relinquishing the route for good, would a new carrier selection process commence.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2933 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3499 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Only if UA were to notify the DOT that is was relinquishing the route for good, would a new carrier selection process commence.

Agreed. And under current US-Mexican bilateral, only two US airlines and two Mexican airlines can fly between LAX and MEX. AS serves the route so if UA relinquishes the authority (which, IIRC, they obtained when they acquired authorities from Pan Am) the process begins. Last time AS was awarded LAX-MEX when DL left the market. If (and that's a big if) UA walks away, it will be interesting to see who applies for the authority in the days of $130+ oil: AA (who applied last time)? VX?


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3499 times:

September 2nd to December 18th is more than 90 days. So the route authority wil be up for grabs? Seems a bit of a stupid thing for UA to do. Why not discontinue it for 89 days to keep the authority - or if they dont want the authority just scrap the route altogether


Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25846 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3485 times:



Quoting United1 (Reply 8):
It remains UAs as long as UA doesn't discontinue service for more then 90 days, after 90 it goes up for grabs.

Actually as I recall the 90day dormancy period would not apply to this route as it was a hand down from Pan Am way back in 1991.

DOT only in recent years has instituted the stricter 90 day dormancy requirements. Older routes such as this should have much greater dormancy periods between 6-12mos, with some very old route authorities actually not even having any dormancy limits.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2933 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3473 times:



Quoting Humberside (Reply 11):
September 2nd to December 18th is more than 90 days. So the route authority wil be up for grabs? Seems a bit of a stupid thing for UA to do. Why not discontinue it for 89 days to keep the authority - or if they dont want the authority just scrap the route altogether

If UA wants to keep the route, you can be assured they are well aware of how long it could stay dormant before forfeit.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17690 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3473 times:



Quoting Humberside (Reply 7):
Is another US airline likely to request the route authority be redesignated as a result of this?

I think another carrier could request the route right now as is. Are two or three carriers from each country allowed to fly LAXMEX? Currently only AS and UA are flying the route from the American side, with DL having dropped it a couple years ago. I think that's how AS got in and since then the limit was increased from two to three carriers from each country. Please feel free to confirm that though!



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2933 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3457 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
I think that's how AS got in and since then the limit was increased from two to three carriers from each country. Please feel free to confirm that though!

I think it is two carriers from each nation to MEX, GDL and I think MTY and CUN too (??) and three to everywhere else.

Now someone correct me if I am wrong, but the bilateral lists some US gateways by airports, and some by metro areas. For example, EWR is considered New York City so only 2 US airlines (CO and DL) fly EWR/JFK-MEX. But FLL is separate from MIA.

[Edited 2008-05-31 10:50:02]

User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6047 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3447 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
Actually as I recall the 90day dormancy period would not apply to this route as it was a hand down from Pan Am way back in 1991.

Ahhhhh didn't realise that it was grandfathered in....



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4050 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3391 times:
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I remember when PA sold this route to UA. It would be a shame to see them give it up. I hope something better comes of this.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25846 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3004 times:

Well United has updated the schedules again, and now LAX-MEX will not be discontinued, but instead operates as a Fri redeye returning MEX-LAX Sat only commencing Sept 5th.

However there is no return to full schedule effective December as previously planned.

LAX-MEX UA1080 2359-0547+1 A320 Fri
MEX-LAX UA1081 0750-0949 A320 Sat



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2994 times:



Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 15):
Now someone correct me if I am wrong, but the bilateral lists some US gateways by airports, and some by metro areas. For example, EWR is considered New York City so only 2 US airlines (CO and DL) fly EWR/JFK-MEX. But FLL is separate from MIA.

Correct, AA has wanted JFK-MEX for years but cannot get it


User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5224 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2858 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 5):
Does anyone know if AS and AM have good yields in this route?

AS offer some very good fares!! And they now will increase as the route is loosing routes, unless MX wisely adds ane extra flight now UA will be gone. I would... this are good news for MX, AM and AS.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 7):
Is another US airline likely to request the route authority be redesignated as a result of this?

If UA ever once drop this one, who could be interested on this route??? DL gave it away to AS... perhaps AA???

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
DOT only in recent years has instituted the stricter 90 day dormancy requirements. Older routes such as this should have much greater dormancy periods between 6-12mos, with some very old route authorities actually not even having any dormancy limits.

Good information, thanks for sharing!!!

g77



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4050 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2808 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):
Well United has updated the schedules again, and now LAX-MEX will not be discontinued, but instead operates as a Fri redeye returning MEX-LAX Sat only commencing Sept 5th.

However there is no return to full schedule effective December as previously planned.

LAX-MEX UA1080 2359-0547+1 A320 Fri
MEX-LAX UA1081 0750-0949 A320 Sat

It sounds like is keeping this schedule minimally intact so they do have to relinquish this route. This is a shame. I thought this route had done well for UA since getting it from PA.

Will we AS increase their frequenices back up to 2x a day from the usual one daily with the exception of high demand seasons?

Is their a possibility AM might increase their frequencies? Many of have talked about how it would be nice to see AM increase their presence @ LAX.


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7603 posts, RR: 42
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2745 times:

If LAX becomes a focus city for the combined DL-NW, maybe AM should do well to bolster its presence at LAX. I guess it would depend on DL-NW opening new routes form LAX to Australia, Asia and the U.S.-Canada west coast.


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4556 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2488 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 5):
Does anyone know if AS and AM have good yields in this route?

I don't get any info about profitability, but the US DOT provides the load factor for AS LAX-MEX and taking into account records of both the high season and slow period respectively:

Mexico City to Los Angeles one-way on Alaska Airlines.
..Filter period.....Departures.....Seats......Passengers......Ratio of load
....July 2007.............64............7506..........6411.................85%
November 2007........35............4133...........2792................68%

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2397 times:



Quoting Juventus (Reply 3):
Yeah, but United seems to be targeting Los Angeles. First Hong Kong and now Mexico City, two of the most important destinations from LA. I guess that's why they're suspending it , too much competition....

There is talk that United Airlines is going to focus more on San Francisco for the international flights and less on Los Angeles. I guess in a time of soaring fuel and a dead economy you have to retreat to what works best. Interesting though that a route such as LAX-MEX which is a high demand route is totally cut, and not just a few days a week.

Does anyone know if any of the other UAL Mexico City routes will be cut?


User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2249 posts, RR: 8
Reply 25, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2238 times:



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 6):
(BTW why did MX pull out of Star?)

MX shifted their partnership from UA to AA because AA's mega hub at DFW could provide more feed to Mexico than UA's focus city at LAX, and their hubs elsewhere in the USA, could. Other than LAX, UA does not have a hub / focus city close to Mexico.



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