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UK CAA To Prosecute Flyglobespan  
User currently offlineJmc757 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2000, 1301 posts, RR: 7
Posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4840 times:

Not sure if this has been discussed, I searched but couldn't find anything...

Never rains but it just pours for Flyglobespan! The UK Civil Aviation Authrority are to prosecute the airline due to breaches of safety. The case seems to centre around a flight last year where a 757 flew transatlantic with both engine pressure guages not working.

The criminal case will start in July, the offence being "endangering an aircraft and its passengers", which carries an unlimited fine. Full stories:

The Times
The BBC

Guess this sheds some more light on the suspension, reinstatement and surrendering of their ETOPS license? Seems quite drastic a criminal prosecution. Globespan seem like a right can of worms!

[Edited 2008-06-01 08:24:00]

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12593 posts, RR: 34
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4625 times:

It is certainly very unusual, but in this case, you have an airline that had its ETOPS clearance withdrawn not once but twice, then went on to fly t/a without the required equipment (which is clearly laid down and known to all operators).

The CAA has a responsibility too and would not be discharging it if it didn't take a tough line with airlines that cross the line.

On a slightly different tack, have you ever had a look at reviews for GSM, for example in Skytrax or Carsurvey? Here's one and it's certainly not untypical:

http://www.carsurvey.org/air/review_14828.html


User currently offlineJmc757 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2000, 1301 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4567 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 1):
It is certainly very unusual, but in this case, you have an airline that had its ETOPS clearance withdrawn not once but twice, then went on to fly t/a without the required equipment (which is clearly laid down and known to all operators).

I thought they surrendered the ETOPS the second time, although it would have been a case of surrender it or have it removed.

Globespan's performance on long haul last summer is infamous, the threads on this site alone are testament to that. Plenty of people were willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, but when things like this come to light it really gets you wondering...


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4523 times:

Good for the CAA. From reading the trip reports on Skytrax etc, they sound like a bunch of con-men. The quicker they're closed down the better.

User currently offlinePawsleykat From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1978 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4419 times:

That's bad to hear. FlyGlobespan have a good repuation here.
Would this result in a complete closure?

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 3):
they sound like a bunch of con-men. The quicker they're closed down the better.

Em, actually, they're rather a good airline with good services btw

JG  Yeah sure



First Class passengers are my favourites. They can't get any further forward without an ATPL.
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4359 times:

I hope the prosecution goes well and FlyGlobespan staff involved receive custodial sentences and not some silly fine. An example should be made here.

User currently offlineAmberair732 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4057 times:



Quoting Pawsleykat (Reply 4):
Em, actually, they're rather a good airline with good services btw

I don't think the CAA are in the business of taking "good" airlines to court.

The question has to be asked. Why would the pilots proceed on a transactlantic flight with these faults? Surely they would be aware of the fault(s)?


User currently offlineBoeing74741R From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2007, 1184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4025 times:

Good on the CAA for intervening. Flyglobespan was bad enough doing what they did last year, and to hear about the incident with the 757 last year left me in a lot of shock. I accept that they are good at operating short-haul flights, but long-haul is a different kettle of fish.

To be honest, GSM were asking for trouble by announcing new long-haul routes without having the proper aircraft to do the job and they did themselves no favours sending two of their 767s on lease to Air India. Sending a 737 vice 757/767 long-haul with a tech stop in places like KEF and YQX on a regular basis is totally unacceptable, and I felt really sorry for those who had paid to fly in Premium Economy and Business (when they used to offer a 3-class service long-haul) and was forced to wedge into a 737-800.

Looking through the comments posted about them on Skytrax they seem a bunch of cowboys anyway!

EDIT: I wonder whether their previous mishaps (ETOPS licence withdrawal) will be taken into account when a decision is made on how GSM will be punished...

[Edited 2008-06-01 10:22:07]

User currently offlineBY738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2431 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3619 times:

I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt after last years debacle, but the long haul program again this summer has been shocking. 20 hour delays at least all weekend. Im sorry, but I just think that is no longer acceptable. As soon as the plug is pulled on this bunch of long haul amateurs the better. The profits are very telling.....or lack of them. 19 million loss- cant blame that just on fuel bills.

User currently offlineNG737PSR From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3552 times:

History repeating itself really - remember when Globespan took over Excalibur back in 1996? Shut down a great short haul , turned it into a poor long haul one doing much the same thing with the same notoriety, leased in a couple of manky old DC-10s, realistically they should never have been allowed to get involved with long-haul flying again under their own rights.

User currently offlineNQYGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3446 times:

Anyone think that his may lead to their basic operating license being revoked?

User currently offlineBoeing74741R From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2007, 1184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3416 times:



Quoting NQYGuy (Reply 10):
Anyone think that his may lead to their basic operating license being revoked?

I hope so, the poor passengers need suffer no more.

You would think that after the farces last year they would've got their act together and, despite this year's programme being nowhere as near as extensive, it is clear that they still haven't learnt their lesson. And to be honest, reading about the 757 flying with no engine gauges is the final straw.


User currently offlineBY738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2431 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3409 times:

Im surpised a pilot would be happy to fly a 757 is these conditions were indeed the case.

User currently offlineNG737PSR From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3041 times:

Mind you they were on the 757s on another country's register with a less than reliable reputation for serviceability- so go figure.

I personally have vowed not to work on anything operated under that particular country of registration ever again having had first hand experience of a certain airline's operation. Quite literally wing and prayer stuff.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27295 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2998 times:



Quoting Pawsleykat (Reply 4):
Em, actually, they're rather a good airline with good services btw

If you come to Ireland you may hear a different story ::

Stranded passenger in hospital following stroke

Tuesday July 03 2007

THE DAUGHTER of an Irishman who suffered a stroke in a New York airport during long flight delays spoke yesterday of the trauma.

Aoife Smith told how her 71-year-old father became extremely stressed after a Globespan flight from New York to Knock airport had to be continually cancelled since last Thursday.

And some of the stranded Globespan passengers, who were forced to make their own way home on alternative airlines, will not be compensated for their financial loss.

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...pital-following-stroke-925636.html

---------------------------------------------------------

FLYGLOBESPAN passenger reviews

Rating Suspended

Add your FlyGlobespan Review

Airline Reviews : A-Z Index

FlyGlobespan Star Ranking (Suspended in 2007)

World Airline Awards

My Aunt who was supposed to leave Oct 10th at 8 pm from Hamilton to Birmingham England - the flight was cancelled at 9pm due to what they were told was no crew available - they forgot to book one? The passengers were put up overnight in Hamilton - up at 5am - back to airport again to be told they would probably be flying out at 9am -- meantime -no food /water was ever offered to any passengers waiting all this time -THEN they were informed that the flight path had been changed-they are now flying to Exeter -disembarking -the plane just has to be cleaned -then back on the plane to take them to their original place of Birmingham arriving at 10pm -too late for my aunt to get her train home !!! DISGUSTING TREATMENT. What a disastrous experience -NEVER will we fly Globespan -thats if they are even in Business much longer -back to British Airways a reputable airline

http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/flygspan-3.htm

---------------------------------

Another great day for GSM today !!! The inaugural route from YVR - DUB

Vancouver Flyglobespan GSM942 02-06-2008 10:00 Delayed 1915


User currently offlineDiesel1 From UK - Wales, joined Mar 2001, 1639 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2900 times:



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 3):
Good for the CAA. From reading the trip reports on Skytrax etc, they sound like a bunch of con-men. The quicker they're closed down the better.

Regardless of what your views are on what they've been charged with, it's a fine thats going to be levied (if they are guilty) not a closure notice. Of course if they can't pay the fine, they could close.

Quoting Pawsleykat (Reply 4):
That's bad to hear. FlyGlobespan have a good repuation here.
Would this result in a complete closure?

See above...

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 5):
I hope the prosecution goes well and FlyGlobespan staff involved receive custodial sentences and not some silly fine. An example should be made here.

See above...

Quoting Amberair732 (Reply 6):
The question has to be asked. Why would the pilots proceed on a transactlantic flight with these faults? Surely they would be aware of the fault(s)?

Therein lies the exact question that I suspect will be raised in court. Was it the pilots decision or was it a decision made by the company. Let's say it was the company that okayed it (as I believe has been stated elsewhere) - then you get into the whole question of what the culture is within the airline about safety....

Quoting Boeing74741R (Reply 7):
EDIT: I wonder whether their previous mishaps (ETOPS licence withdrawal) will be taken into account when a decision is made on how GSM will be punished...

Isn't it a principal of law that you can only be prosecuted for the case in question... the fact that it has gone to court indicates that the 'history' of the airline has already been considered...?

Quoting BY738 (Reply 8):
As soon as the plug is pulled on this bunch of long haul amateurs the better.

That'll be up to the CAA not the court.. and they've already done that to some degree by removing ETOPS authorisation at a point in the past. If the CAA thought there was a problem now then they would have withdrawn their licenses already

Quoting NQYGuy (Reply 10):
Anyone think that his may lead to their basic operating license being revoked?

See above...

Quoting NG737PSR (Reply 13):
Mind you they were on the 757s on another country's register with a less than reliable reputation for serviceability- so go figure.

IIRC the incident regarding the engine pressure ratio gauges affected a UK registered a/c, not the Icelandic ones.

Quoting NG737PSR (Reply 13):
I personally have vowed not to work on anything operated under that particular country of registration ever again having had first hand experience of a certain airline's operation. Quite literally wing and prayer stuff.

Would like to hear more about why you think this... nothing vague, let's have some specifics...!

Quoting OA260 (Reply 14):
If you come to Ireland you may hear a different story ::

Stranded passenger in hospital following stroke

Tuesday July 03 2007

THE DAUGHTER of an Irishman who suffered a stroke in a New York airport during long flight delays spoke yesterday of the trauma.

Aoife Smith told how her 71-year-old father became extremely stressed after a Globespan flight from New York to Knock airport had to be continually cancelled since last Thursday.

And some of the stranded Globespan passengers, who were forced to make their own way home on alternative airlines, will not be compensated for their financial loss.

Aoife Smith's father was stranded because the B757 due to fly him home, was the same flight, stranded in New York, because the engine pressure ratio gauges weren't working that FlyGobespan are now being prosecuted over.... so would you be happier stranded rather than flying on an a/c with alleged maintenance defects?



I don't like signatures...
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27295 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2863 times:



Quoting Diesel1 (Reply 15):
so would you be happier stranded rather than flying on an a/c with alleged maintenance defects?

Nope !! I would be happier if they had have put them all on a another carrier and done some damage limitation. But seeing as GSM are rock bottom for customer service it does not surprise me. No excuse at all.

What was the reason for the 10 hour delay on the YHM service ex: DUB last week and also the 9 hour 15 mins delay today to their YVR-DUB flight?? Totally unacceptable.

---------------------------

BOSSES at Ireland West Airport want the guarantee of back-up aircrafts and better communications from Scottish carrier Flyglobespan after the airline left US passengers stranded for three days.

About 200 passengers due to travel from JFK in New York to Knock on Friday morning were informed yesterday (Monday) evening that they would have to find alternative transport after their flight had been delayed for three days. Meanwhile, 164 others had not left Ireland West Airport on an out-bound flight due to depart on Sunday and were told that they would be put on the next flight if seats were available.

When the transatlantic service was announced earlier this year, there was great excitement but it has turned to worry with the flights experiencing regular delays since they began in late May.

http://www.westernpeople.ie/news/story/?trs=mhqlmhidau


User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4124 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2824 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
What was the reason for the 10 hour delay on the YHM service ex: DUB last week and also the 9 hour 15 mins delay today to their YVR-DUB flight??

The YVR-DUB flight was probably a knock on from their delayed Gatwick-Vancouver flight yesterday, which left 11 hours late. In fact, I think I could honestly say that more GSM flights out of Gatwick depart late than on time.

However much I love visiting Canada, I think I'd rather stay at home than have to fly there with Flyglobespan.


User currently offlineGosimeon From Ireland, joined Jan 2008, 663 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2785 times:

They're obviously a dodgy airline, cutting corners and leaving pax stranded. You can't say it's the low-fares way; their fares aren't low at all. Also, at least the airlines like FR that don't do much for stranded pax run efficiently and seem to hate delays with a passion. GSM seem to love them...

User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2750 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
About 200 passengers due to travel from JFK in New York to Knock on Friday morning were informed yesterday (Monday) evening that they would have to find alternative transport after their flight had been delayed for three days. Meanwhile, 164 others had not left Ireland West Airport on an out-bound flight due to depart on Sunday and were told that they would be put on the next flight if seats were available.

3 days ? How is that possible ? Have they never heard of reaccomodating on other carriers ? That's just scandalous. Are they not subject to EU compensation regulations ?


User currently offlineJmc757 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2000, 1301 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2707 times:



Quoting NG737PSR (Reply 13):
Mind you they were on the 757s on another country's register with a less than reliable reputation for serviceability- so go figure.

I personally have vowed not to work on anything operated under that particular country of registration ever again having had first hand experience of a certain airline's operation. Quite literally wing and prayer stuff.



Quoting Diesel1 (Reply 15):
IIRC the incident regarding the engine pressure ratio gauges affected a UK registered a/c, not the Icelandic ones.

Correct, the incident being talked about occured on Flyglobespan's own, UK registered 757. Regards to Icelandic ops, well the two 757s Globespan had came from Iceland's far more reputable carrier. That said they the 2 TF- 757s also had an awful summer; although they don't seem to be the problem. And also remember that when Globespan lost the ETOPS the Icelandic 757s and Italian 767s were unaffected....


User currently offlineSandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2620 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Pawsleykat (Reply 4):
That's bad to hear. FlyGlobespan have a good repuation here.

Do they?

My last experience of GSM was pretty bad and friends of mine flew back from Canada last year which required an extra stop because they'd lost their ETOPS. The Scottish Media are taking a dislike to them also and last I heard their 2008 loads where poor.

Sandyb123



Member of the mile high club
User currently offlineWAH64D From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 966 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2578 times:

They are without doubt the worst airline in Europe and that's saying something. I'm ashamed that they come from the same country as me.


I AM the No-spotalotacus.
User currently offlineSoxfan From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 870 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2356 times:

Two questions:

1) Why do people still fly them/how are the loads currently on their long-haul flights?

2) Do ANY of their long-haul operations not suffer from extreme delays?

Unless the fares are unbelievably cheap, I simply cannot see why people want to fly on this airline. I have never flown it myself (and don't intend to), but from reading Skytrax and other sites it seems like the long-haul experience has been nothing short of horrible, particularly with delays and poor (or nonexistent) customer service.

Would it be better for FlyGlobespan to cease long-haul and instead focus on their short-haul operation within Europe?



Pilot: "Request push, which way should we face?" JFK Ground: "You better face the front, sir, or you'll scare the pax!"
User currently offlineBoeing74741R From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2007, 1184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2318 times:



Quoting Soxfan (Reply 23):
Would it be better for FlyGlobespan to cease long-haul and instead focus on their short-haul operation within Europe?

More chance of them ceasing operations entirely before they concentrate on short-haul 100% again. The CAA are probably not going to take a soft stance on GSM, and personally I hope they get the worst of what can be thrown at them.


25 YVRLTN : No idea. There isnt even a need to fly them, you have plenty of choices with Zoom & Canadian Affair (TS / TCX) if youre on a budget who do the same t
26 Sandyb123 : Air Canada compete on this route, and I know which one I'd rather choose!! Not sure about their long haul business but they are still selling cheap s
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