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757-300 - What A Flop .  
User currently offlineHkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2426 times:

With 13 at Condor and 2 at Arkia that makes a big total of 15 in service , WOW !!

Two years in service and only 15 aircraft !, whats wrong with this plane ???

59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24906 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2100 times:

JMC have ordered 2 or 3, and CO and NW have both placed fairly large orders for the a/c I believe. Theres nothing wrong with the a/c , just slow in selling as airlines such as BA are getting smaller a/c.


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineOO-AOG From Switzerland, joined Dec 2000, 1426 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2051 times:

Has been ordered by CO and American Trans Air as well.
Definately not a great success anyway you r right.



Falcon....like a limo but with wings
User currently offlineLogos From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 793 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2018 times:

It's not *yet* a success, but I wouldn't be too quick to call it a flop. Remember the 757-200 also got off to a relatively slow start with only Eastern and BA (and, I believe Monarch) ordering it at first. Now it is the only aircraft type that all major US airlines operate and every carrier has them in fairly substantial numbers.

I would think the 757-300 would be enormously popular with charter operators (like Condor) and the CO and NW orders may be the ticket to jump start its sales.

Just my $.02.

Cheers,
Dave in Berlin



Too many types flown to list
User currently offlineKing767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1967 times:

This a/c does not have to be a total success to bring cash for Boeing! The 753 was not started from scratch and only involved 1 or 2 extra plug sections, and did not cost tons to develop. I would not call it a "flop". Look at the recent CO and NW orders. Expect more.
-Tom


User currently offlineCSA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1931 times:

I think FI also has ordered a few 753.

User currently offlineDeskdriver From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1930 times:

I always wondered why they launched it anyway? Confused
If you want a bigger than a B752, but still the same kind of aircraft surely you would buy a B762 or B763.

Are the economics really that better on a B753 over a B762?? Nuts


User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10645 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1883 times:

Yes, the economics seem to be better. But thats it. I agree, the 753 is not really a sales success and most probably never will (and I hope so, because its one of the worst airliners for the passenger to fly with). That Condor replaced the comfortable DC-10s with these ugly, cramped and relatively uncomfortable Narrowbodies shows that the airlines using them don´t care about the pax (I used this word instead of passenger because it fits more here).

User currently offlineSeasonedflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1857 times:

Actually, its all about caring for the passengers.

An airline exists to make a profit and you can only make a profit by selling seats on an airplane at more than it takes to fly that airplane (RASM - CASM = PrASM).

A 757-300 is cheaper to buy and cheaper to fly than any equivalent sized aircraft (Airbus or 767). It may less comfortable to the passengers compared to other aircraft, but because its operating cost is lower, the cost of tickets on that airplane will be lower.

Most passengers still fly where they can get the cheapest ticket. Therefore, they are willing to accept less than optimal seating to get the good price.


User currently offlineSunilgupta From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 775 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1850 times:

From Boeing's site "The Boeing 757-300 has the lowest seat mile operating cost of any single-aisle airplane on the market…". From what I recall, Boeing developed it at the behest of charter carriers.

Orders so far are from Iceland Air, Condor, Northwest, ATA, JMC, Arkia Israeli Airlines and Continental.

See http://www.boeing.com/commercial/757-300/history.html

Sunil


User currently offlineSteman From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 1366 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1830 times:

The 757-300 started slowly but now is gaining many important order by major airlines.
I am sure the 15 CO orders and the 18/20 NW orders are only the first of a long list.
The 753 is well suited for charter airlines too and it is likely to be ordered by big European Charter Operators, and indeed it has been acquired by Condor and JMC.
If you add that Lufthansa is evaluating it to replace A310 and British Airways may order it as they are reducing capacity, well, I won't call it a flop.

Ciao

Stefano


User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10645 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1821 times:

Seasonendflyer,
you´re arguments are exactly the reason why I´m sure the huge A380 will be a success. That´s the aircraft that can really bring big profits because it will have excellent seatmile-costs - while still offering the best comfort possible in the air (contrary to the cattlecarrier 753).


User currently offlineHkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1819 times:

The 753 is very slow so far, just like the 736 and the 717.

User currently offlineN907CL From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 255 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1801 times:

Airlines that have the 757-300 on order from the Boeing site:
AMERICAN TRANS AIR 10

CONTINENTAL AIRLINES 15

ICELANDAIR 2

JMC AIRLINE 2

NORTHWEST AIRLINES 18



Brian
User currently offlineTWAneedsNOhelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1756 times:

Arkia and Condor ordered several, but their planes have already been delivered.

User currently offline757man From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 370 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1727 times:

I think it will go on to sell a few. OK, it does not look as good as the 752 simply because it looks too long, but airlines don't order a/c because they look pretty or cute (as one lady I knew once described the 732).

As for the arguements about the a/c being cramped and uncomfortable, I don't buy this. OK, it can't compete with a widebody for space onboard, but it is no different to the 707, 727, 737 and the 752. They all have the same cross section, and the A320 series is only a few inches wider.

It also depends on who you fly with too. Charter carriers will cram the a/c with seats, but the likes of CO and NW shouldn't be as bad.

I have flown on the 767 with charter carriers and I found them to be more uncomfortable than a charter configured 757 with 225 seats.

Don't judge the 753 too soon, you may be surprised at how many Boeing will end up selling.


User currently offlineNotarzt From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 642 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1711 times:

Seems as if HKGspotter doesn't have a big clue of aviation industry... just look at his first post. Man, you need to check first - then bash.  Big grin

Daniel


User currently offlineAdria From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1695 times:

The orders for this aircraft are yet to come but Condor isn't very happy because of the long fuselage. the problem occurs when the aircraft must be unloaded and loaded very fast.When Lufthansa tested the aircraft for it A300-600 replacement on domestic routes they weren't satisfied with it

User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 23
Reply 18, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1690 times:

What is really stupid here are people who judge an aircraft after it’s only existed for a few years or sometimes before it has ever flown. i.e. A380. Before any of us can judge the 757-300, lets give the aircraft between 10-15 years in service to see if it’s really a flop. As for the A380, lets wait until the dang thing is really flying before we label it the world’s greatest aircraft. Right now, it’s a "paper airplane".

Ok, maybe “computer airplane” would be a better term.  Nuts



"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineFlashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2900 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1678 times:
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I think it's very premature to call the 753 'uncomfortable'. One of the least comfortable rides I had was on a DL 777 that was incredibly cramped in coach. If I were to post a topic about the incredible discomfort of the 777, I'd get flamed hardcore.

This stems from plane envy syndrome I think -- widebodies are always better, and airlines should always fly widebodies on every route because they're always better, regardless of seat-mile costs, loads, etc... That's not how the real world works.

Boeing may not sell 3,000 753s, but it's all about bang for the buck. If they can make a lot of money on a relatively small investment, more power to them...


User currently offlineRIX From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1787 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1672 times:

Well said, Notarzt, but I would correct this: check first - and still never bash (of course, if you are an enthusiast, not a biased jealous kid). I liked another post too, where some guy compared A380 by comfort to a 757... Probably the first one of this kind here!  Smile

User currently offlineChepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6202 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1662 times:

In my opinion it would be a good idea for AA to buy the 757-300 . They must soon replace the A300 and I think that the 753 is of better choice than a 764 . But anyway AA at the moment is bot planning to buy any of these 2 aircraft type . But lets rememver that the A300's are becoming oddballs in the AA fleet.
Chepos
Puerto Rico



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 53
Reply 22, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1636 times:

Not all aircraft can sell 2000 aircraft-everyone here expects this from the 753-just because it hasnt sold that many doesnt mean its a failure...

Greg



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineKALB From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 573 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1632 times:

Way too early to describe the 757-300 as a flop. In its early days the 737-100/200 was a slow seller and it was almost dropped. Look where the 737 is now: best selling airliner of all time! Has anybody on this post actually flown on a 757-300? I think its best to fly on a plane before judging its worth and comfort.

User currently offlineCrewChief32 From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 418 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1558 times:

Deskdriver, the 753 is cheaper to operate because it does not have containers (=less maintenace costs), and can be off- and onloaded with manpower only (=less ground handling fees).
You don`t have to care if the airport has the equipment to handle containerised aircrafts and you don`t need a bunch of empty containers at every airport you serve.

Adria,
you are right, it is a big minus take it takes quite long time to turn around a 753, especially when the entire load is in the rear compartments, but Condor was so clever to install the conveyor-like leather belts form Scandinavian Bellyloading to reduce the manpower to just one up there.
Arkia doen`t have that system so you need at least three poeple in the comparment.

CC32


25 3rdlove : well NA, you must not be a aviation buff, if you were you would appreciate the 757's elegant lines, she's a beauty. have you ever flown in one? It has
26 Red Panda : it may have to do w/ the U.S as well as global economic slowdown antipated in the next few years. Airlines are now taking spectaculating position on t
27 Alexinwa : The 753 many be slow selling, however, it WILL take-off and it WILL be one of Boeings BEST SELLERS.
28 King767 : "Cattlecarrier 753".......Hmmmm, It's from my observation that some people here just don't have a clue what they are talking about. People just think
29 Notarzt : Tom, I can confirm the reports that Lufthansa was quite happy about the test operations they made. Daniel
30 Post contains images Johnnybgoode : i´d like to concur with notarzt and king767, that LH was very happy with its feasibilty study about the 757-300. unlike adria stated, sorry, fella th
31 Boeing nut : I can't understand why people hate particular types of aircraft because they were "cramped". Yell at the airlines for this, not the aircraft. 30-31 in
32 RayChuang : The Boeing 757-300 is NOT a flop. The reason is real simple: the development costs to build the 753 is very cheap, essentially adding a few fuselage p
33 VirginA340 : I expect Boeing to sell atleast more than 1000 or 2000 aircraft. AA was suposed to be ordering more considering for narrow bodies they want to be an a
34 ILOVEPLANES! : Another Boeing prejudiced comment by who else... Hkgspotter1! Back to the topic! Ok... 15 in 1998... 45+ in 2000-2001. I always see this from Hkgspott
35 Nwa747-400 : Flashmeister: I agree with you that people on here want widebodies on everyflight. I will even admit that I was momentarily dissapointed that NW went
36 Travelin man : Personally, I like widebodies because they tend to offer more first/business class seating (good for upgrades). I like the 757 a lot, though, and it s
37 ScottB : I doubt you can consider the 757-300 a flop if it has 50% of the currently unfilled orders for 757's (according to Boeing's website, there are 94 unfi
38 DesertJets : Scott- I am glad somebody else has picked up on the fact that the 757-300 looks and is designed to fill the same role as the DC-8 Super 60. Everyone-
39 Delta15 : Has anyone been on this airplane?
40 Nwa747-400 : Actually NW domestic DC10-40s that are being replaced by the 757-300s now seat 42 in first class, up from 34 in previous years. I think the 757-300s b
41 Red Panda : What do you mean by " selling at least 1000 to 2000 of aircraft"? If you mean 753 only, it is not possible. There are still less than 2000 747 (incl.
42 Hkgspotter1 : Well this was a hit topic !! Fact is a fact this is a very slow selling aircraft.
43 King767 : "And now we nominate Hkgspotter1 commercial aviation expert of all time, because he sure sounds smart when he speaks. -Tom
44 MD-90 : Changes from the 757-200 to the 757-300: 1. Fuselage lengthened by 23 feet, 4 inches (7.1 m). 2. New interior with vacuum lavatories (737NG type inter
45 HlywdCatft : Remember sales of the 757-200 started out real slow too, look at it now
46 Alexinwa : For the exact reasons stated before. Airlines that may have been a little weary of this A/C at first, are now understanding what a remarkable plane it
47 Boeing747-400 : Hkgspotter1 and other Boeing haters, I have only FIVE things to say to you... GIVE BOEING SOME DAMN TIME THE 767-400 AND 757-300 HAVE ONLY BEEN FOR SE
48 Aerorobnz : remember a 744 takes a longer period of time(and more space in the hanger) to build than a 753 so 2000-3000 could be built faster. I suspect you are r
49 QantasA3XX : I rather fly on a wide body then to fly on a long narrow body plane .. Just imagine how much time wasted when the passengers board and alight the plan
50 Hkgspotter1 : I do not hate Boeing, let me clear that up now. I will admit that I think the 757 and 767 are ugly and that the 747X is very ugly. I also think the 72
51 Early Air : The 757-200 is more pratical. If customers want to go larger they will pry move up to the 767-200. I so agree that the 753 was a flop. This is a subje
52 Tullamarine : It is highly unlikely the 753 will sell to many airlines that don't already have the 752. It just doesn't make sense to add a completely new type for
53 Na : When I said the 753 is cramped and uncomfortable I meant its inferior to older widebodies that were replaced by them like in Condors fleet. Come on, n
54 ChrisNH : Airline buffs will recall that the 757 in the early 1980s was also very slow in taking off. Eastern Airlines bought some, but it took awhile for carri
55 Notarzt : Tom (King767), I agree. Let's nominate the topic's start as the most intelligent and smart commercial aviation expert of all times. What did he say...
56 Boeing nut : Regarding the comparison of the 753 to the DC-8-60, anyone out there think the 753 will also blossom in the cargo market? (though the A300 seems to be
57 Hkgspotter1 : Condor to go Airbus !!! , Well thats 13 second hand 757-300's already !!! Boeing 747-400, The 757-300 has been on sale a bit longer then "a few months
58 Airforum : Nothing wrong with it..just give it the time it needs...same for the 767-400.
59 Nwa747-400 : The 757-300 is more economical than a widebody because (in the case of CO) their 757-200 holds only 2 less people than a 767-200 and on a shorter dome
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