GKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24964 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2174 times:
JMC have ordered 2 or 3, and CO and NW have both placed fairly large orders for the a/c I believe. Theres nothing wrong with the a/c , just slow in selling as airlines such as BA are getting smaller a/c.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
Logos From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 796 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2092 times:
It's not *yet* a success, but I wouldn't be too quick to call it a flop. Remember the 757-200 also got off to a relatively slow start with only Eastern and BA (and, I believe Monarch) ordering it at first. Now it is the only aircraft type that all major US airlines operate and every carrier has them in fairly substantial numbers.
I would think the 757-300 would be enormously popular with charter operators (like Condor) and the CO and NW orders may be the ticket to jump start its sales.
King767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2041 times:
This a/c does not have to be a total success to bring cash for Boeing! The 753 was not started from scratch and only involved 1 or 2 extra plug sections, and did not cost tons to develop. I would not call it a "flop". Look at the recent CO and NW orders. Expect more.
Na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1957 times:
Yes, the economics seem to be better. But thats it. I agree, the 753 is not really a sales success and most probably never will (and I hope so, because its one of the worst airliners for the passenger to fly with). That Condor replaced the comfortable DC-10s with these ugly, cramped and relatively uncomfortable Narrowbodies shows that the airlines using them don´t care about the pax (I used this word instead of passenger because it fits more here).
Seasonedflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1931 times:
Actually, its all about caring for the passengers.
An airline exists to make a profit and you can only make a profit by selling seats on an airplane at more than it takes to fly that airplane (RASM - CASM = PrASM).
A 757-300 is cheaper to buy and cheaper to fly than any equivalent sized aircraft (Airbus or 767). It may less comfortable to the passengers compared to other aircraft, but because its operating cost is lower, the cost of tickets on that airplane will be lower.
Most passengers still fly where they can get the cheapest ticket. Therefore, they are willing to accept less than optimal seating to get the good price.
Steman From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 1403 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1904 times:
The 757-300 started slowly but now is gaining many important order by major airlines.
I am sure the 15 CO orders and the 18/20 NW orders are only the first of a long list.
The 753 is well suited for charter airlines too and it is likely to be ordered by big European Charter Operators, and indeed it has been acquired by Condor and JMC.
If you add that Lufthansa is evaluating it to replace A310 and British Airways may order it as they are reducing capacity, well, I won't call it a flop.
Na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1895 times:
you´re arguments are exactly the reason why I´m sure the huge A380 will be a success. That´s the aircraft that can really bring big profits because it will have excellent seatmile-costs - while still offering the best comfort possible in the air (contrary to the cattlecarrier 753).
757man From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 370 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1801 times:
I think it will go on to sell a few. OK, it does not look as good as the 752 simply because it looks too long, but airlines don't order a/c because they look pretty or cute (as one lady I knew once described the 732).
As for the arguements about the a/c being cramped and uncomfortable, I don't buy this. OK, it can't compete with a widebody for space onboard, but it is no different to the 707, 727, 737 and the 752. They all have the same cross section, and the A320 series is only a few inches wider.
It also depends on who you fly with too. Charter carriers will cram the a/c with seats, but the likes of CO and NW shouldn't be as bad.
I have flown on the 767 with charter carriers and I found them to be more uncomfortable than a charter configured 757 with 225 seats.
Don't judge the 753 too soon, you may be surprised at how many Boeing will end up selling.
Adria From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1769 times:
The orders for this aircraft are yet to come but Condor isn't very happy because of the long fuselage. the problem occurs when the aircraft must be unloaded and loaded very fast.When Lufthansa tested the aircraft for it A300-600 replacement on domestic routes they weren't satisfied with it
B757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1764 times:
What is really stupid here are people who judge an aircraft after it’s only existed for a few years or sometimes before it has ever flown. i.e. A380. Before any of us can judge the 757-300, lets give the aircraft between 10-15 years in service to see if it’s really a flop. As for the A380, lets wait until the dang thing is really flying before we label it the world’s greatest aircraft. Right now, it’s a "paper airplane".
Ok, maybe “computer airplane” would be a better term.
Flashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2903 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1752 times:
I think it's very premature to call the 753 'uncomfortable'. One of the least comfortable rides I had was on a DL 777 that was incredibly cramped in coach. If I were to post a topic about the incredible discomfort of the 777, I'd get flamed hardcore.
This stems from plane envy syndrome I think -- widebodies are always better, and airlines should always fly widebodies on every route because they're always better, regardless of seat-mile costs, loads, etc... That's not how the real world works.
Boeing may not sell 3,000 753s, but it's all about bang for the buck. If they can make a lot of money on a relatively small investment, more power to them...
RIX From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1787 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1746 times:
Well said, Notarzt, but I would correct this: check first - and still never bash (of course, if you are an enthusiast, not a biased jealous kid). I liked another post too, where some guy compared A380 by comfort to a 757... Probably the first one of this kind here!
Chepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6236 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1736 times:
In my opinion it would be a good idea for AA to buy the 757-300 . They must soon replace the A300 and I think that the 753 is of better choice than a 764 . But anyway AA at the moment is bot planning to buy any of these 2 aircraft type . But lets rememver that the A300's are becoming oddballs in the AA fleet.
KALB From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 573 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1706 times:
Way too early to describe the 757-300 as a flop. In its early days the 737-100/200 was a slow seller and it was almost dropped. Look where the 737 is now: best selling airliner of all time! Has anybody on this post actually flown on a 757-300? I think its best to fly on a plane before judging its worth and comfort.
CrewChief32 From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 418 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1632 times:
Deskdriver, the 753 is cheaper to operate because it does not have containers (=less maintenace costs), and can be off- and onloaded with manpower only (=less ground handling fees).
You don`t have to care if the airport has the equipment to handle containerised aircrafts and you don`t need a bunch of empty containers at every airport you serve.
you are right, it is a big minus take it takes quite long time to turn around a 753, especially when the entire load is in the rear compartments, but Condor was so clever to install the conveyor-like leather belts form Scandinavian Bellyloading to reduce the manpower to just one up there.
Arkia doen`t have that system so you need at least three poeple in the comparment.
: well NA, you must not be a aviation buff, if you were you would appreciate the 757's elegant lines, she's a beauty. have you ever flown in one? It has
26 Red Panda
: it may have to do w/ the U.S as well as global economic slowdown antipated in the next few years. Airlines are now taking spectaculating position on t
: The 753 many be slow selling, however, it WILL take-off and it WILL be one of Boeings BEST SELLERS.
: "Cattlecarrier 753".......Hmmmm, It's from my observation that some people here just don't have a clue what they are talking about. People just think
: Tom, I can confirm the reports that Lufthansa was quite happy about the test operations they made. Daniel
: i´d like to concur with notarzt and king767, that LH was very happy with its feasibilty study about the 757-300. unlike adria stated, sorry, fella th
31 Boeing nut
: I can't understand why people hate particular types of aircraft because they were "cramped". Yell at the airlines for this, not the aircraft. 30-31 in
: The Boeing 757-300 is NOT a flop. The reason is real simple: the development costs to build the 753 is very cheap, essentially adding a few fuselage p
: I expect Boeing to sell atleast more than 1000 or 2000 aircraft. AA was suposed to be ordering more considering for narrow bodies they want to be an a
: Another Boeing prejudiced comment by who else... Hkgspotter1! Back to the topic! Ok... 15 in 1998... 45+ in 2000-2001. I always see this from Hkgspott
: Flashmeister: I agree with you that people on here want widebodies on everyflight. I will even admit that I was momentarily dissapointed that NW went
36 Travelin man
: Personally, I like widebodies because they tend to offer more first/business class seating (good for upgrades). I like the 757 a lot, though, and it s
: I doubt you can consider the 757-300 a flop if it has 50% of the currently unfilled orders for 757's (according to Boeing's website, there are 94 unfi
: Scott- I am glad somebody else has picked up on the fact that the 757-300 looks and is designed to fill the same role as the DC-8 Super 60. Everyone-