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Personal Transit System At Heathrow Planned?  
User currently offlineChristopherwoo From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 157 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3345 times:

Hey everyone....

Just saw this on Youtube and didn't know what to make of it? Is this a far fetched plan or something that is seriously being looked into or even built?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEzJVub2LAo

If its actually being built it looks awesome!

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineHywel From Uganda, joined Apr 2008, 802 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3314 times:

Never heard of these plans before, however if they did go ahead, I can guess that:

a) it would take 12 years to build
b) it would cost 3 times as much as originally planned
c) within the first 6 months of it being opened, there would be chaos as it frequently breaks down

and lastly...

d) you would have to pay to use it....

Who knows!


User currently offlineChamone From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2007, 18 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3278 times:

Hi
This is a form of Personal Rapid Transit (PRT).
It is planned to run from the Terminal at T5 to the Long Stay Car Park.
They run along a special track and they appear on demand and will take you to wherever you want to go.
More information can be found at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_rapid_transit

This system, once operational, will be the worlds first PRT system and if successful BAA want to expand its use at LHR.

Daventry (a town in the UK) wants to install a large version - although is a long way off - to allow transport around the town.

Apparently it is the "future" but it is very costly and reliability is yet to be proved...we shall see.

Edited the name of the system - got it wrong...Doh!

[Edited 2008-06-02 14:22:49]

[Edited 2008-06-02 14:23:19]

User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3073 times:



Quoting Hywel (Reply 1):

Well, the tracks nearly fully laid so I guess it is going ahead!! Already seen one of the units as well, looks very futeristic


User currently offlineDenverDanny From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2847 times:

Personal transport systems like this have never worked properly. I think they are terribly inefficient too. Good luck to the Brits relearning what has already been learned.

User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2738 times:

Looks pretty cool, but what a great way for terrorists to get a bomb right into the middle of a terminal without having to be their themselves.... 2 full suitcases of explosives could make a massive explosion.


56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineRwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2374 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 15 hours ago) and read 2528 times:
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Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 5):
Looks pretty cool, but what a great way for terrorists to get a bomb right into the middle of a terminal without having to be their themselves.... 2 full suitcases of explosives could make a massive explosion.

How is that any different than any of the automated trains now in use at many airports?

In fact, it seems like it would be easier to detect that in a PRT pod where a basically simple visual/IR/weight sensor would be able to tell that there's a suitcase but no person in the pod, and then alert security appropriately (and automatically route the pod to a remote location). Although we’ll now have to be on the lookout for people carrying heated mannequins to the airport.

And basic video surveillance would pick up someone just putting something on a pod without getting on themselves.

In a conventional automated train you could get on, put down a bag, and walk off at the stop prior to your target, and need only hope that an extra bag isn't discovered in the crowd of people in the minute or two before the target stop.


User currently offlineLHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 15 hours ago) and read 2503 times:



Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 5):
Looks pretty cool, but what a great way for terrorists to get a bomb right into the middle of a terminal without having to be their themselves.... 2 full suitcases of explosives could make a massive explosion.

If you view the whole video, you'll see that the PRT doesn't run into T5 itself, but into the short-term car park outside T5.

There's nothing to stop terrorists placing bags on the tube, Heathrow Express, or any other transit system anywhere else in the world that runs directly into an airport.

You're sounding a little paranoid there mate....!  Wink


User currently offlineBastew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1028 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 15 hours ago) and read 2479 times:

Most of the track is laid and there has been a 'pod' seen there also.

Quoting Rwessel (Reply 6):
How is that any different than any of the automated trains now in use at many airports?

Instead of going around and around on a track (regardless of whether someone is waiting to use an automated train or not), the personal rapid transit system works more like an elevator. If you are waiting, press a button and one will be along within 40 seconds.

Quoting DenverDanny (Reply 4):
Personal transport systems like this have never worked properly. I think they are terribly inefficient too. Good luck to the Brits relearning what has already been learned.

I think it is a great idea. It is probably the same amount to set up a system like this as it would be to set up an automated train/monorail except this is 'on demand'. It's also better than the bus transport option as there are no driver wages to pay, it can run 24 hours a day and also will not add to the already congsted roads around heathrow.


User currently offlineRwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2374 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 14 hours ago) and read 2460 times:
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Quoting Bastew (Reply 8):
Instead of going around and around on a track (regardless of whether someone is waiting to use an automated train or not), the personal rapid transit system works more like an elevator. If you are waiting, press a button and one will be along within 40 seconds.

Right, but we were discussing its utility in moving a bomb into the airport.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 9 hours ago) and read 2408 times:



Quoting LHR777 (Reply 7):
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 5):
Looks pretty cool, but what a great way for terrorists to get a bomb right into the middle of a terminal without having to be their themselves.... 2 full suitcases of explosives could make a massive explosion.

If you view the whole video, you'll see that the PRT doesn't run into T5 itself, but into the short-term car park outside T5.

There's nothing to stop terrorists placing bags on the tube, Heathrow Express, or any other transit system anywhere else in the world that runs directly into an airport.

You're sounding a little paranoid there mate....!

Ok well it looked like it went into the terminal to me when I saw it... not sure now...

Those other points are true except that people are their to notice unattended bags. These are small vehicles with no-one in them and possibly not much security.... I highly doubt considerable extra money would be spent on thermal and weight sensing floors and computers...
just pointing it out... paranoid? airports are high profile but highly protected targets... in the UK in particular there is a constant threat of both external and internal terrorism.... it is estimated by MI5 that there are at least 100 terrorists at any one time in the London area alone planning some kind of attack... I wouldn't call that paranoid, theres a reason why intelligence and security services call in Londonistan.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineRwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2374 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 8 hours ago) and read 2379 times:
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Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 10):
I highly doubt considerable extra money would be spent on thermal and weight sensing floors and computers...

Well, a basic monochrome digital security camera with sensitivity well into the IR can be had for about $50, and some basic strain gages in the floor structure (or suspension, but then you have to compensate for things like rain or snow adding weight to the whole vehicle) can give you weight to within 10-15kg with reasonable accuracy.

That type of strain gauge is installed in many elevators to detect when they're empty, so that they can turn off all the stop requests (this prevents people from slowing down elevator service by pushing all the buttons just before they get off).

Since there's obviously going to be digital communications with each car anyway (this is 2008, after all), and you'll probably want a security camera in any event (there will at least be vandals, and you'd certainly want to be able to see in when somebody hits the emergency call button). So I'm guessing that it would only cost a few hundred dollars to do all three - and you're probably going to do some of it no matter what. Add a bit of image processing and pattern recognition software, and some rules for weight, and when something goes out of spec, ring a bell in the security center, and let a human look at the camera image.

Worth it? I don't know, but it wouldn't be all that hard or expensive. But my original point was that a similar threat already exists with the more traditional automated trains.


User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 2366 times:

They are bound to also be agents at each stop assisting passengers. And the number of staff etc walking around we do notice unattended bags.

The System goes into the car park at the front of the termianl currently only from the Business car park on the other side of 24L. They only have one bit of track left to fit and thats over one of the emergency entrance to the runway.


User currently offlineBAStew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1028 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 4 hours ago) and read 2298 times:



Quoting Rwessel (Reply 9):

Quoting Bastew (Reply 8):
Instead of going around and around on a track (regardless of whether someone is waiting to use an automated train or not), the personal rapid transit system works more like an elevator. If you are waiting, press a button and one will be along within 40 seconds.

Right, but we were discussing its utility in moving a bomb into the airport.

I guess the same utility in leaving a bag unattended on an automated train, or on a bus/tube/tain running into heathrow.

CCTV seems order of the day in London. Its everywhere. Its effectivness is debateable (use the example of the tube bombings - one of THE most CCTV covered places you could ever visit) but I guess it serves as a deterrent. And if also placed on board the pods would spot an unattended bag pretty easy.


User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6820 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 3 hours ago) and read 2290 times:

More info here.

http://jalopnik.com/cars/industry-ne...-rapid-transport-system-335264.php

http://www.atsltd.co.uk/

http://www.ultraprt.com/heathrow.htm

High quality video (85MB) in last link



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 3 hours ago) and read 2275 times:

England doesn't do futuristic very well. This is bound to be a disaster. It seems like a lot of expense just to get people to the car park.  Yeah sure

User currently offlineAntonovman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 722 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 3 hours ago) and read 2254 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 15):
England doesn't do futuristic very well. This is bound to be a disaster. It seems like a lot of expense just to get people to the car park. Yeah sure

The usual British pessimism


User currently offlinePeterinlisbon From Portugal, joined Jan 2006, 562 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 2 hours ago) and read 2198 times:



Quoting Chamone (Reply 2):
It is planned to run from the Terminal at T5 to the Long Stay Car Park.
They run along a special track and they appear on demand and will take you to wherever you want to go.

As long as where you want to go is the long stay car park!


User currently offlineLeezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4042 posts, RR: 53
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2091 times:



Quoting Rwessel (Reply 11):
That type of strain gauge is installed in many elevators to detect when they're empty, so that they can turn off all the stop requests (this prevents people from slowing down elevator service by pushing all the buttons just before they get off).

Damn I didn't know that, I love doing that !!! ha ha !!.

Quoting Trekster (Reply 12):
The System goes into the car park at the front of the termianl currently only from the Business car park on the other side of 24L. They only have one bit of track left to fit and thats over one of the emergency entrance to the runway.

Where the hell is 24L at LHR ?.

 crazy 



"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2079 times:

You know what I meant lol

27L


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