Good f'n riddance. That was one of the most unbelievably dumb (re-re-re-recycled) ideas in the industry from one of the worst consulting firms out there. Why anyone would hire Mckinsey to do anything with a record like they have (SN, SR, Ted) is beyond me.
Imapilotaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12881 times:
Only 70 aircraft is a kick in the bucket. They need to shed some RJ flying... how Im not so sure. I would not be surprised if they are praying for Mesa's demise to pull out 50+ aircraft out of the system. That's the one downside of not having wholly owneds, is that you cant kill them if you need to get rid of your regional feed.
Although Im trying to figure out how getting rid of Ted saves you all that much money. You've already got the planes painted, the uniforms done, the website created, etc. Its going to cost money to repaint those aircraft, switch back to UA brand.I guess you may be able to have a little bit of schedule flexibility, but TED was to the size that you had a decent schedule flexibility and utilization rates.
Jawake From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12773 times:
Quoting Flyb (Reply 15): I wonder if United would ever consider doing what Air Canada did with Tango? And turn it into a fare not an actually airline? Would Air Canada's system work in the US?
It's possible. But would they?
The demise of TED does not concern me in this latest speculation. More than likely TED employees would be brought back into the UA mainstream.
The real concern is the numbers, 1500 people, 70 aircraft. I wonder if this is an addition 70 aircraft over and above the ones they have already gave notice to park? That would bring the total well over 100 airframes. Wow.
My view of Ted is fairly well known. I think it was a misbegotten idea, but two things were important:
(i) Ted boosted staff morale at a time when it was sorely needed. It was seen as United "fighting back" against the LCC's. In that sense, Ted did his job.
(ii) It was one of the first executive decisions made by Glenn - "Ted" - Tilton when he became CEO.
He was acting on the advise of the airline strategists MacKinsey and Co, who sent at least one airline into bankruptcy.
So I thought Ted would hang around as long as Mr. Tilton did. But that was without oil at $130 bbl.
The real problem is that Ted was designed to stop the erosion of market share, particularly at DEN against Frontier.
That failed. The erosion of market share continued and got worse when Southwest came to DEN.
I can't see the value of United continuing to chase low yield leisure traffic - and diluting the brand - but there have been rumors of Ted's demise before. I'll be interested to see if it is true this time.
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11648 posts, RR: 62
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12490 times:
I agree with others that finally getting rid of the ridiculous joke that is Ted is very smart, and long overdue. It was a stupid idea and flawed strategy from the outset, and did absolutely nothing for United because - as others said - it had the same costs and simply removed First Class. In addition, I continue to find it nothing short of incredible how awful the utilization of some of the Ted flying is - when I see turn times of 50-105 minutes, I don't feel encouraged about this supposedly "low-cost" airline within an airline.
Quoting Davidlc3 (Reply 14): My "sources" inside UA tell me that the cutting is going to be painful, deep and "unbelievable" - this coming from a 20+ year veteran of UA. The words I heard were "this is worse than 9/11"...
It makes sense - as the economic situation facing the airlines today is, indeed, even worse that in the period immediately following 9/11, as astounding and unbelievable as that may be.
I remember those dark days after 9/11 - and the thinking of everyone that it could never possibly be that bad ever again, except if there was another terrorist attack. And here we are, more than halfway to a decade later, and oil prices that are absolutely unprecedented are now posing an economic challenge to airlines that is without equal in the history of the industry.
The cuts from United will no doubt be extraordinarily deep and "unbelievable" - just as were AA's. And, sadly, that is how it has to be, and how it should be, given the economic realities of the moment. I can only hope - that for the sake of the entire industry - other airlines continue to follow AA's (and now United's) lead of making substantive capacity cuts.
I think this quote from JetBlue CEO David Barger in USAToday says it all:
"When we started the year, we were budgeting oil at less than $100 a barrel. … There's too much domestic capacity, and there's been too much domestic capacity. Certainly we've been part of that because we've been a new brand adding new airplanes over the last eight years."
Now, for the CEO of the low-fare airline that less than 10 years ago was the darling of Wall Street and the industry to be saying that - essentially agreeing in full with what some legacy CEOs like AMR's Arpey have been saying for several years - is fairly telling on the capacity-versus-fare trajectory that this industry has been on for the last few years.
Everyone - even the perennial favorites like JetBlue and Southwest - are beginning to recognize that the growth, at the macro level, that this industry has been experiencing in capacity in the last few years has been, and now more so than ever remains, simply unsustainable.
Planes have to be parked. Employees laid off. And fares raised. Period. End of story.
United1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5973 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12871 times:
Quoting Jawake (Reply 21): The real concern is the numbers, 1500 people, 70 aircraft. I wonder if this is an addition 70 aircraft over and above the ones they have already gave notice to park? That would bring the total well over 100 airframes. Wow.
Well if thats the case UA would assumably be parking the entire 737 fleet (30 announced at the end of the third quarter and 70 more tomorrow = 100 airframes there are 94 737s) Of course everyone is also assuming that this is all mainline cuts and that UA has not reached an agreement with the regionals to cut flying.
While any job cut is regrettable 1500 seems way to low a number for 70 or even a 100 airframes being parked. If its just 1500 management/WHQ employees and there are additional line employee layoffs coming that might be a bit closer to the actual number.
Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
: Not true at all. But there is no need for: Aircraft Type No. of Seats Total -------------------------------------------------------------------------
: I'm basically in agreement with Mariner, which is somewhat rare. Ted has always been about Denver. That's where it was born and where it will die. I
: Well I suppose they could just tape "Uni" in front of the "Ted" logos and voila.. United... cheap and dirty. Not a big flyer so never tested "Ted", ca
: As a 50-post member of flyertalk, let me reply: Raaaaaaaar!!!! Seriously, I don't see this happening. Unless the left hand really doesn't know what t
: So, no Ted = no DEN? That would make sense; if we're really talking survival, it's hard to see how much DEN can immediately contribute to that effort
: Logically, you would try to keep the planes that are paid off, not leased or being paid for - thats why NW has 90+ DC-9's. I would suspect that most
: Have no idea where this info is coming from....... Last I heard we are only parking some 737s.... I think real old-322s and some -522s. I bet all the
: We all knew it was on the horizon. I guess we'll figure out tomorrow just how deep these cuts will go. Hoping for the best outcome possible (because
: As a non-premier flier in coach, what is the difference between Ted and United? I have flown both and seemed the same to me. Denver shutdown might be
: You get the full can of soda on one and just a cup on the other. there is not that much of a difference between Ted and Mainline.
: Tilton is not a god and doesn't control the price of oil. If you haven't noticed, oil is an industry-wide problem, not a Glenn Tilton/United problem.
: How is UA even remotely like PA in the late 80s? This is not a UA specific problem this is an industry problem, and UA is taking steps to correct wha
: I'd love to hear you back that up with real similarities. We? Have you ever worked a day in your life for United Airlines?