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The End Of Ted  
User currently offlineBarney Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 966 posts, RR: 13
Posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 14767 times:

Hate to see any more loss of employment in this biz, but according to PlaneBuzz....that's the word on the street

http://www.planebuzz.com/

From the headline;

"United Airlines To Park Up to 70 Aircraft, Behead Ted, and Announce Headquarters' Layoffs"


...from the Banana Republic....
98 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31014 posts, RR: 87
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 14678 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

And there was much rejoicing (about the loss of TED).

User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7195 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 14609 times:

We need Mariner to comment. Unfortunately, Ted already didn't really mean anything. It's not cheaper either in price or cost to operate, so it's demise means as little in death as it did in life.

How many Ted routes are being dropped? Probably 1 or 2 at most, maybe none!


User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3866 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 14311 times:



Quoting Barney Captain (Thread starter):
The End Of Ted

I thought the surgery was successful. What happened?



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23035 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 14195 times:



Quoting Barney Captain (Thread starter):

"United Airlines To Park Up to 70 Aircraft, Behead Ted, and Announce Headquarters' Layoffs"

Ted's demise has been rumoured on and off for at least 3 years. I'll believe it when I see it.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineF9Widebody From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1604 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 14072 times:

Just a few days ago they announced new routes for Ted. Like DEN-OAK.


YES URLS in signature!!!
User currently offlineDsuairptman From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 901 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 13943 times:

Ted was the only United product I remotely liked. Great going Tilton.


GEAUX SAINTS!
User currently offlineJpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4389 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 13895 times:



Quoting Dsuairptman (Reply 8):
Ted was the only United product I remotely liked. Great going Tilton.

You're in the minority there.



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5582 posts, RR: 29
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 13776 times:



Quoting Dsuairptman (Reply 8):
Ted was the only United product I remotely liked.

What made them better? I've never flown them (I think I've flown UA at most two or three flights in my life.).

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineJawake From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 13708 times:

From planebuzz

Yes. We're hearing at least 1500 folks are going to be on the short end of pink slips at UAUA headquarters.

Okay, does that sound like a high number, I mean 1500 people in Chicago. Thats a lot of people!

70 Aircraft

How many 737 does UA fly? Is that all of them and are we talking other types of metal?

This seems like too much of a rumor to be true.


User currently offlineJetBlueAUS From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1145 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 13471 times:



Quoting Jawake (Reply 11):
This seems like too much of a rumor to be true.

Definitely. Nothing is official yet. However, I do believe this rumor could be partially true, just the numbers aren't as big as planebuzz projects.



Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
User currently onlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5973 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 13422 times:



Quoting Jawake (Reply 11):
How many 737 does UA fly? Is that all of them and are we talking other types of metal?

UA has 94 737s

30 735
64 733



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineDavidlc3 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 13349 times:

Bye Bye 735s...

My "sources" inside UA tell me that the cutting is going to be painful, deep and "unbelievable" - this coming from a 20+ year veteran of UA. The words I heard were "this is worse than 9/11"...

Naturally that has no meat but makes for a heckuva pondering statement...


User currently offlineFlyb From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 686 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 13276 times:

I wonder if United would ever consider doing what Air Canada did with Tango? And turn it into a fare not an actually airline? Would Air Canada's system work in the US?

User currently offlineBarney Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 966 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 13275 times:

I realize I meant to add a (?) to the title thread.....sorry if I made it too definitive. I hope the numbers are inaccurate as well........we shall see.

[Edited 2008-06-02 19:32:37]


...from the Banana Republic....
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17516 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 13167 times:



Quoting Barney Captain (Thread starter):

"United Airlines To Park Up to 70 Aircraft, Behead Ted, and Announce Headquarters' Layoffs"

Good f'n riddance. That was one of the most unbelievably dumb (re-re-re-recycled) ideas in the industry from one of the worst consulting firms out there. Why anyone would hire Mckinsey to do anything with a record like they have (SN, SR, Ted) is beyond me.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17516 posts, RR: 46
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 13103 times:



Quoting F9Widebody (Reply 6):
Just a few days ago they announced new routes for Ted. Like DEN-OAK.

LAX-SJD just started too as "Ted". Just the name makes my blood boil!



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineImapilotaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12881 times:

Only 70 aircraft is a kick in the bucket. They need to shed some RJ flying... how Im not so sure. I would not be surprised if they are praying for Mesa's demise to pull out 50+ aircraft out of the system. That's the one downside of not having wholly owneds, is that you cant kill them if you need to get rid of your regional feed.

Although Im trying to figure out how getting rid of Ted saves you all that much money. You've already got the planes painted, the uniforms done, the website created, etc. Its going to cost money to repaint those aircraft, switch back to UA brand.I guess you may be able to have a little bit of schedule flexibility, but TED was to the size that you had a decent schedule flexibility and utilization rates.


User currently offlineMXA318 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12826 times:

Could Ted possibly be dead? We can only hope....

User currently offlineJawake From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12773 times:



Quoting Flyb (Reply 15):
I wonder if United would ever consider doing what Air Canada did with Tango? And turn it into a fare not an actually airline? Would Air Canada's system work in the US?

It's possible. But would they?

The demise of TED does not concern me in this latest speculation. More than likely TED employees would be brought back into the UA mainstream.

The real concern is the numbers, 1500 people, 70 aircraft. I wonder if this is an addition 70 aircraft over and above the ones they have already gave notice to park? That would bring the total well over 100 airframes. Wow.

We will see.....


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8902 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12722 times:

As a 4000+ post member at FlyerTalk, I have but one thing to say:

RAR!!!!!!!!!

Sure going to be a lot of people there that will be ecstatic. My friend that is Premier on UA will often fly GSO-IAD-LAX-LAS to minimize his time on Theodore.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12665 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Enilria (Reply 2):
We need Mariner to comment.

My view of Ted is fairly well known. I think it was a misbegotten idea, but two things were important:

(i) Ted boosted staff morale at a time when it was sorely needed. It was seen as United "fighting back" against the LCC's. In that sense, Ted did his job.

(ii) It was one of the first executive decisions made by Glenn - "Ted" - Tilton when he became CEO.

He was acting on the advise of the airline strategists MacKinsey and Co, who sent at least one airline into bankruptcy.

So I thought Ted would hang around as long as Mr. Tilton did. But that was without oil at $130 bbl.

The real problem is that Ted was designed to stop the erosion of market share, particularly at DEN against Frontier.

That failed. The erosion of market share continued and got worse when Southwest came to DEN.

I can't see the value of United continuing to chase low yield leisure traffic - and diluting the brand - but there have been rumors of Ted's demise before. I'll be interested to see if it is true this time.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23035 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12552 times:



Quoting Imapilotaz (Reply 19):
I would not be surprised if they are praying for Mesa's demise to pull out 50+ aircraft out of the system.

So... there's not a single route in the system for which a 50-seater is the most appropriate aircraft?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11648 posts, RR: 62
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12490 times:

I agree with others that finally getting rid of the ridiculous joke that is Ted is very smart, and long overdue. It was a stupid idea and flawed strategy from the outset, and did absolutely nothing for United because - as others said - it had the same costs and simply removed First Class. In addition, I continue to find it nothing short of incredible how awful the utilization of some of the Ted flying is - when I see turn times of 50-105 minutes, I don't feel encouraged about this supposedly "low-cost" airline within an airline.

Quoting Davidlc3 (Reply 14):
My "sources" inside UA tell me that the cutting is going to be painful, deep and "unbelievable" - this coming from a 20+ year veteran of UA. The words I heard were "this is worse than 9/11"...

It makes sense - as the economic situation facing the airlines today is, indeed, even worse that in the period immediately following 9/11, as astounding and unbelievable as that may be.

I remember those dark days after 9/11 - and the thinking of everyone that it could never possibly be that bad ever again, except if there was another terrorist attack. And here we are, more than halfway to a decade later, and oil prices that are absolutely unprecedented are now posing an economic challenge to airlines that is without equal in the history of the industry.

The cuts from United will no doubt be extraordinarily deep and "unbelievable" - just as were AA's. And, sadly, that is how it has to be, and how it should be, given the economic realities of the moment. I can only hope - that for the sake of the entire industry - other airlines continue to follow AA's (and now United's) lead of making substantive capacity cuts.

I think this quote from JetBlue CEO David Barger in USAToday says it all:

"When we started the year, we were budgeting oil at less than $100 a barrel. … There's too much domestic capacity, and there's been too much domestic capacity. Certainly we've been part of that because we've been a new brand adding new airplanes over the last eight years."

Now, for the CEO of the low-fare airline that less than 10 years ago was the darling of Wall Street and the industry to be saying that - essentially agreeing in full with what some legacy CEOs like AMR's Arpey have been saying for several years - is fairly telling on the capacity-versus-fare trajectory that this industry has been on for the last few years.

Everyone - even the perennial favorites like JetBlue and Southwest - are beginning to recognize that the growth, at the macro level, that this industry has been experiencing in capacity in the last few years has been, and now more so than ever remains, simply unsustainable.

Planes have to be parked. Employees laid off. And fares raised. Period. End of story.

This has got to stop.


User currently onlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5973 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12871 times:



Quoting Jawake (Reply 21):
The real concern is the numbers, 1500 people, 70 aircraft. I wonder if this is an addition 70 aircraft over and above the ones they have already gave notice to park? That would bring the total well over 100 airframes. Wow.

Well if thats the case UA would assumably be parking the entire 737 fleet (30 announced at the end of the third quarter and 70 more tomorrow = 100 airframes there are 94 737s) Of course everyone is also assuming that this is all mainline cuts and that UA has not reached an agreement with the regionals to cut flying.

While any job cut is regrettable 1500 seems way to low a number for 70 or even a 100 airframes being parked. If its just 1500 management/WHQ employees and there are additional line employee layoffs coming that might be a bit closer to the actual number.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
25 Imapilotaz : Not true at all. But there is no need for: Aircraft Type No. of Seats Total -------------------------------------------------------------------------
26 Enilria : I'm basically in agreement with Mariner, which is somewhat rare. Ted has always been about Denver. That's where it was born and where it will die. I
27 Jbernie : Well I suppose they could just tape "Uni" in front of the "Ted" logos and voila.. United... cheap and dirty. Not a big flyer so never tested "Ted", ca
28 F9Widebody : As a 50-post member of flyertalk, let me reply: Raaaaaaaar!!!! Seriously, I don't see this happening. Unless the left hand really doesn't know what t
29 MasseyBrown : So, no Ted = no DEN? That would make sense; if we're really talking survival, it's hard to see how much DEN can immediately contribute to that effort
30 PHXmd80 : Logically, you would try to keep the planes that are paid off, not leased or being paid for - thats why NW has 90+ DC-9's. I would suspect that most
31 Post contains images AAH732UAL : Have no idea where this info is coming from....... Last I heard we are only parking some 737s.... I think real old-322s and some -522s. I bet all the
32 PanAm330 : We all knew it was on the horizon. I guess we'll figure out tomorrow just how deep these cuts will go. Hoping for the best outcome possible (because
33 ADent : As a non-premier flier in coach, what is the difference between Ted and United? I have flown both and seemed the same to me. Denver shutdown might be
34 United1 : You get the full can of soda on one and just a cup on the other. there is not that much of a difference between Ted and Mainline.
35 FreequentFlier : Tilton is not a god and doesn't control the price of oil. If you haven't noticed, oil is an industry-wide problem, not a Glenn Tilton/United problem.
36 United1 : How is UA even remotely like PA in the late 80s? This is not a UA specific problem this is an industry problem, and UA is taking steps to correct wha
37 JpetekYXMD80 : I'd love to hear you back that up with real similarities. We? Have you ever worked a day in your life for United Airlines?
38 FreequentFlier : Oh yes he can....and I believe he just did.
39 Jamake1 : I wouldn't be so quick to believe everything one reads on Planebuzz, although I do respect Holly Hegeman. I was at a company meeting this past week in
40 United1 : LOL...so true I suppose I should have phrased is as "AAH732UAL is barking up the wrong tree if he thinks that Tilton is responsible for the price of
41 NwaLAS : I jokingly stated a year ago or more on this site that I think the name "TED" should have been "PID".....and instead of saying "PART OF UNITED" at the
42 UAORD2000 : Ted employees are United employees. As a f/a, it is very common to work both Ted and Mainline flights in the same trip pairing. This whole "airline w
43 DaCubbyBearBar : What will happen to cities like LAS that are all TED? All we know in LAS is the yellowtail. It would be nice to see some 75's back, or do I dare dream
44 UAL777UK : Lets just get those A320's rolled back into the mainline and be done with TED, and send the 737's to the desert. TED came, fought and arguably lost.
45 VictorKilo : No. Ted's reason for being was United's strategy at DEN to deal with DEN's market dynamics at the time of its creation, which was low cost low fares
46 Enilria : Agreed. It just means that UA will shrink in Denver, if true. I don't expect any Ted routes to go away completely...maybe a few. The 1,500 layofss at
47 Jawake : Agreed, what I think it is more likely is that 1500 people system wide maybe out of a job. 1500 at HQ would make it a ghost town. Sources like plane
48 CuriousFlyer : UA is at a point where mainline and Ted in-flight services are both LCC-style if I understand (I have not flown them in years, too many bad experience
49 DC8Fanjet : TED has never been "separate". Other than the paint job & seating, operates like the rest of UA, so no extra costs. F Class seats might be an option,s
50 Sxf24 : This is why UA should (and will likely) fail: it's management is stupid and clueless. How can you judge the profitability of an integrated business u
51 MSYtristar : Well you won't see me shed a tear if this turns out to be true. Ted was just smoke and mirrors. It started out with a bang, but quickly went downhill.
52 ItalianFlyer : I respect Holly allot...she is usually right on and not one of those "experts" from the Big Three brokerage firms that get paraded out on CNBC who par
53 Enilria : I suppose that's true, but frankly every airline in the U.S. is LCC-style in coach at this point. To me the stupidest part of the airline within an a
54 Post contains images AAH732UAL : No but I love UA very much an consider it family as well as I am very much involved in them and have many pilot pals who work for them besides my mom
55 Bartond : I wouldn't go this far, as I generally like United better than other US carriers, but Ted does/did not offer a bad product at all. The planes are new
56 A342 : Instead of parking 737s, they should shed excessive regional jet frequencies and use mainline aircraft instead. One 735 should be cheaper to operate t
57 EMB170 : In theory, yes... but there are pros and cons: Pros of Mainline vs. Express: Wider cabin (usually = happier travelers because they have their carryon
58 AirframeAS : They were always UA employees. They were only wearing TED uniforms. Still UA employees.
59 B6fll : What a minute, like Song, wasn't Ted supposed to put Jetblue out of buisness...LOL...Next
60 BrianDromey : I think if UA were to introduce the 'unbundled' product AC sells they need to do an entire review of product delivery and options. AA are just adding
61 DeltAirlines : No - Ted wasn't aimed at JetBlue really. There was a little overlap at IAD (some IAD-Florida and IAD-LAS) but that was it really. UA sends mainline o
62 AirframeAS : No, that would be F9. And it didn't work.
63 JpetekYXMD80 : You can't be serious.
64 B6fll : It was a joke although I was serious about the Song part!
65 Nycbjr : I don't believe that DL ever felt Song would kill jetBlue, it was to be used as a test environment for new service changes, and it was tailored to at
66 Post contains links WA707atMSP : I flew Ted three months ago LAS-DEN (click here for trip report http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ums/trip_reports/read.main/123400/ In the 1970s
67 AADC10 : Since all UAX carriers are only contracted to UA how do the fuel costs work? Does UA pay for the UAX fuel? I would think UA might be tempted to pass
68 Srbmod : The "Ted is Dead" rumor has had legs for sometime, especially once Delta shuttered Song. Ted was a good idea at the time, but once the industry began
69 ScottB : No, that's not necessarily the case, unless you can actually find someone to take the newer leased/mortgaged aircraft off your hands. Some carriers (
70 Xtoler : I think that's exactly what they did. Just because they have a yellow version of the lates UA livery and left off the letter UNI, that saved them mon
71 BrianDromey : Song was far more detached and had far better branding than TED was ever given. It was also a very different service proposition from mainline. Peopl
72 Xtoler : At least DL learned from Song. I've never flown Song, and haven't flown DL since '90 and that was through SATO. How come UA didn't wait a few minutes
73 Briguy1974 : Replacing regional flying with less frequent mainline flights is not an option on most UAX markets. United is an airline tailored to the buisness trav
74 Post contains links Barney Captain : Looks like it's as bad as advertised: "Reports: United Airlines to ground dozens of fuel-guzzling aircraft in cost-cutting move CHICAGO (AP) -- United
75 OPNLguy : What also caught my eye was this: "United intends to retire 94 decades-old Boeing 737 jets, the Tribune reported. The airline had already planned to
76 NwaLAS : So where are they going to park them??? I'll bet you it's going to be Victorville. Those people down there are probably drooling with money signs in t
77 VX4Ever : R.I.P Ted I will miss you at ONT with your amazing colors!
78 Enilria : Kudos to Holly on this one. That is the odd duck in the announcement. Everything shrinks, but Express grows. I think they believe Mesa will die and t
79 TN757Flyer : I've always felt that since WN's arrival at DEN and their meteoric growth there, there would eventually only be two large players at DEN. Don't assum
80 AirFRNT : As several people have noted, if F9 can survive bankruptcy, there is a non-trivial chance that UA dehubs DEN. I think it's only a matter of time befo
81 Jasp25 : So when is Ted gonna stop flying? -jasp
82 MasseyBrown : Seems to me UA could improve their overall position by cutting DEN to hub and international flying and codesharing with Frontier for the feed. They a
83 MoMan : Ted is goodbye and good riddance. All it did was to fracture the brand image and keep Tilton and his gang from making any meaningful changes in their
84 Post contains links F9Widebody : It's official. Here's the PR: http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_..._Reduction_Press_Release_FINAL.pdf
85 A342 : I have no clue. It was just an idea that seems to make at least some sense.
86 Cubsrule : I doubt it... DEN would have to become WN's largest station for WN to have the most flights at DEN. There's no doubt that they'll grow DEN more, but
87 UnitedSuperDC8 : According to today's press release, Ted will be reconfigured to mainline A320 layout begining in Spring of 2009 to be complete by Fall of 2009 when th
88 AirFrnt : Why not? DEN is about the ultimate location for the point to point routing that WN Favors.
89 Cubsrule : It's not really any better or worse than Las Vegas, where the competitive environment is much better.
90 Cactus742 : Why don't the airlines realize this (ahem, US)? CO is head and shoulders above the other legacies in both quality AND profitability. It's not a coinc
91 TN757Flyer : Reread what I said. I didn't say it would become WN's largest station. I said don't be surprised if Southwest becomes the #1 carrier at DEN. If UA ke
92 Cubsrule : And, again, if WN is to be the largest at DEN, one of three things will have to happen: 1) F9 cuts about 120 flights at DEN (unlikely to happen unles
93 TN757Flyer : [quote=Cubsrule,reply=92]And, again, if WN is to be the largest at DEN, one of three things will have to happen: It's quite obvious you don't get it,
94 Cubsrule : I think that you wrote that you anticipate WN having the most departures of any carrier at DEN in the not-so-distant future. Did I read it incorrectl
95 MasseyBrown : If F9 and UA cut the flights that Cubsrule proposes, which cuts are not unthinkable, what does that do to WN's station costs? Won't they end up with g
96 LGA777 : One think that I can't understand about UA's plans are why start reducing Ted in Spring 2009, why not at least pull some aircraft out in Sept-Nov 2008
97 AirFrnt : Sure it is. You don't' have to fly over the Rockies, and you can reach above New York with regional. Both are huge advantages. Not to mention that DE
98 Cubsrule : From California to Denver, you must cross the Rockies. From New York to Las Vegas, you must cross the Rockies. Except for those very few people betwe
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