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Qantas The Oldest Airline Now?  
User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 855 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 15472 times:

I've been seeing recent QANTAS ads here on Hong Kong television and QANTAS is now claiming to be the oldest airline in operation. Isn't that title still held by KLM? KLM founded in 1919 and QANTAS in 1920?!?!

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGreggarious From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 15442 times:

As far as I know, Qantas is at least the third oldest airline. KLM is the oldest, followed by Avianca. Perhaps someone else knows if Qantas is #3?

User currently offlineCupraIbiza From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 837 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks ago) and read 15125 times:



Quoting Greggarious (Reply 1):
As far as I know, Qantas is at least the third oldest airline. KLM is the oldest, followed by Avianca. Perhaps someone else knows if Qantas is #3?

This has recently been discussed. Qantas is the oldest in that it is the "longest continuolsy operating airline"

Quoting JohnClipper (Thread starter):
I've been seeing recent QANTAS ads here on Hong Kong television and QANTAS is now claiming to be the oldest airline in operation.

isnt the claim the "worlds most experienced airline"



Everyday is a gift…… but why does it have to be a pair of socks?
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5316 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks ago) and read 15120 times:



Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 2):
This has recently been discussed. Qantas is the oldest in that it is the "longest continuolsy operating airline"

KLM was operating all though the war - just not in europe, so QF dont even have that claim.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4865 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks ago) and read 15023 times:



Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 2):
Quoting Greggarious (Reply 1):
As far as I know, Qantas is at least the third oldest airline. KLM is the oldest, followed by Avianca. Perhaps someone else knows if Qantas is #3?

This has recently been discussed. Qantas is the oldest in that it is the "longest continuolsy operating airline"

Quoting JohnClipper (Thread starter):
I've been seeing recent QANTAS ads here on Hong Kong television and QANTAS is now claiming to be the oldest airline in operation.

isnt the claim the "worlds most experienced airline"

 checkmark 

Quoting ANstar (Reply 3):

Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 2):
This has recently been discussed. Qantas is the oldest in that it is the "longest continuolsy operating airline"

KLM was operating all though the war - just not in europe, so QF dont even have that claim.

Are you sure about that?



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 14940 times:

KLM (Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij) is the world's oldest airline.

User currently offlineAdam42185 From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 416 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 14810 times:



Quoting SCL767 (Reply 5):
(Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij)

what is the word for word translation of this in english? out of curiosity


User currently offlineStevAAn From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 14771 times:

Royal Aviation Airlines.... I guess, correct me if I'm wrong  crossfingers 


747
User currently offlineLevent From France, joined Sep 2004, 1718 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 14771 times:



Quoting Adam42185 (Reply 6):
what is the word for word translation of this in english? out of curiosity

Royal Airline

But better known as Royal Dutch Airlines


User currently offlineAussie747 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 14753 times:

Take it as you will of the following which is factual. No debates

KLM -
Founded Oct 7 1919
First Flight May 17 1920
Airline has operated continuously even during WW2. However the airline did not fly out on Netherlands throughout WW2. It's operations were confined to operating out of the UK only at that time.

QANTAS
First Flight was 10 Nov 1919 under business name of Western Queensland Auto Aero Service Limited
Founded as QANTAS when business name was re registered on 16Nov 1920

AVIANCA
Formed as AVIANCA in June 14 1940
Originally known as SCADTA when formed on December 5 1919

So interpret all of the above as you will. KLM is the oldest airline under the original name. However QANTAS is the oldest if you take into account it's origins.

Those are the historical facts.


User currently offlineKLMCedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 812 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 14753 times:



Quoting Adam42185 (Reply 6):

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 5):
(Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij)

what is the word for word translation of this in english? out of curiosity

Royal Aviation Company


User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5316 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 14726 times:



Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 4):
Are you sure about that?

Yup - just do some googling and you'll get all the info!


User currently offlineCarduelis From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2001, 1586 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 14509 times:

Try researching AT&T (Aircraft Transport and Travel) and their first international passenger flight carrying Colonel W N Pilkington of the St Helens glass firm on 15 July 1919. It flew from Hendon, near Heathrow to Paris, with Captain Jerry Shaw in charge. He should have called in at Hounslow Heath, now LHR, to clear Customs, but did not due to the early hour of the day and that he 'could not see any Customs people below'!. The flight was actually a Charter paid for by Pilkington Glass..

Although the Governement's authorisation of flying dated from 15 July 1919, it took several weeks to get scheduled services organised, and it was not until 25 August 1919 that AT&T again made history by operating the world's first regular scheduled International daily air service.

AT&T and others were the predecessors of Imperial Airways and followed by BOAC in 1939, all through World War 2, up to today's British Airways.

Tha above info is taken from 'A Pictorial History of Imperial Airways and BOAC'

QF's claim appears to be that it still has the same orignal name now as when it started.

[Edited 2008-06-04 00:44:06]


Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 14462 times:

Quoting Aussie747 (Reply 9):
Founded as QANTAS when business name was re registered on 16Nov 1920
"May 17, 1920 : First KLM Flight, route Amsterdam - London. Aircraft: De Havilland DH-16, pilot: Jerry Shaw".

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 5):
Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij
KLM translated into English literally means Royal Aviation Association.

[Edited 2008-06-04 00:30:28]

User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 855 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 14426 times:



Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 2):
Quoting JohnClipper (Thread starter):
I've been seeing recent QANTAS ads here on Hong Kong television and QANTAS is now claiming to be the oldest airline in operation.

isnt the claim the "worlds most experienced airline"

The television spots are indicating both with the "most experienced airline" being the final tag line. Ad copy during the commercial is something to the effect of "as the world's oldest airline..." I'll listen again to it (not like it's not broadcast each morning).


User currently offlineERJ135 From Australia, joined Nov 2000, 687 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 14301 times:

Ok the literal translation of Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij is
Royal Air Travel Company.
I haven't heard of Qantas claiming to be the oldest airline but A.Net experts are very good at interpreting facts and figures to make one aircraft seem better than another based on just a single snippet of information. Using this formula you could say that KLM is a relativly new airline that was incorporated following Air France aquiring the assets of the old KLM that was founded in 1919. If it could be proven that the Current corporate structure and ownership is just a few years old then Qantas could actually claim to be the oldest continuously operating airline in the world today.
Just for the record I think it's a load of crap and who really cares. I would hazard a guess and say none of the current A.Netters were here when it all began any way.

Actually from memory I believe Sabena was around in 1919 too and SN Brussels was born out of the ashes of Sabena and actually still operates some of their aircraft.



I remember when the DC-3 was new!
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3189 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 14242 times:



Quoting ERJ135 (Reply 15):
I haven't heard of Qantas claiming to be the oldest airline but A.Net experts are very good at interpreting facts and figures to make one aircraft seem better than another based on just a single snippet of information.

The only claim that Qantas has made regarding being the worlds oldest was that they were the oldest airline in the English speaking world. The new ads claim Qantas is the worlds most experienced airline not the oldest.

If you are talking historical facts then KLM is the worlds oldest airline and Qantas is the second oldest. End of story.  Smile


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 14214 times:



Quoting Sydscott (Reply 16):

 checkmark 


User currently offlineAirbuster From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 454 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13998 times:

See the reason that it can't be any other airline than KLM being the oldest is very obvious if you look at KLM's colorscheme:

Being the first, they had the first choice, and that was SKYBLUE!

AB



FLY FOKKER JET LINE!
User currently offlineFlashFlyGuy From Australia, joined Jan 2007, 439 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 13770 times:

The oldest existing national airline is KLM. Qantas is the second oldest existing national airline - and is the oldest existing national airline in the English speaking world. That is what I heard and was told 40 years ago.

Quoting ERJ135 (Reply 15):
KLM is a relativly new airline that was incorporated following Air France aquiring the assets of the old KLM

ERJ135's theory could prove interesting. Should an examination of the Air France take-over prove that KLM is no longer legally the national airline of The Netherlands, then Qantas is within their rights to now call themselves the 'oldest existing national airline'.


User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 13766 times:

I believe Finnair holds that crown.  Wink

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 13757 times:

They have a good accident record though.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineFlashFlyGuy From Australia, joined Jan 2007, 439 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 13680 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 20):
I believe Finnair holds that crown.

You believe wrong.

According to the Guiness Book of Records 1987 (not that this info can change) Finnair doesn't even get a look-in;



User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 13606 times:

Q.... Queensland
A... .And
N ... Northern
T ... .Terrotories
A.... Airline
S.... System has been around quite a while as has KLM and Northwest.

Now, wasn''t that easier to pronounce then that KLM wordie thing?

safe
 yes 



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineFlashFlyGuy From Australia, joined Jan 2007, 439 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 13478 times:



Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 23):

A.... Airline
S.... System

um nice try but....
A....AERIAL
S....SERVICES

Queensland and Northern Territory Aerial Services Ltd

http://www.qantas.com.au/info/about/history/index


25 Viscount724 : What services did KL operate from the UK during WWII? Brussels Airlines (formerly SN Brussels) is a separate company, like LX vs. Swissair. And Terri
26 Sydscott : I disagree. To have survived for 50 years as an airline is pretty good going when you look at the failure record of this industry. I re-iterate, KLM
27 Bramble : Regardless of which is the actual oldest (first flight versus first founded as a company) can we at least agree that the advert are a marketing ploy t
28 SCL767 : Correct! I just don't understand why some people have such a hard time believing that KLM is the oldest carrier.
29 Singapore_Air : I would think of even greater concern would be the actual content of the Qantas advertisement, notably the part when it touts its Business Class which
30 QFYMML : I'm pretty sure that Business Class is available on all direct services from the UK. Just like SQ is the world's largest operator of the A380. The de
31 Isitsafenow : Thankyouverymuch....thats what friends are for... and that also goes for Viscount724. safe[Edited 2008-06-04 17:00:46]
32 Post contains links and images Singapore_Air : In the details indeed. Unfortunately for Qantas, they have depicted a fully flat SkyBed and past that off as a product, a fully flat bed, that is ava
33 QFYMML : If you can point me to the QF release that states that exactly - a horizontal fully flat business bed on every flight from LHR - rather than your int
34 Jfk777 : Pan Am was "the world's most experienced airline", Juan Trippe would be proud to know Qantas is using its tag line. Qantas certainly has been one of
35 Singapore_Air : My interpretation is the same as yours (I can't give you the statement as the UK version of the advert isn't on Youtube but it states: "SkyBed availa
36 QFYMML : My interpretation of that statement is that it is 100% accurate. I do agree though that it's misleading to then show the 180 flat product not availab
37 SCL767 : That's funny; he would roll over in his grave! I was actually reading an article about him today regarding Pan Am's routes around the world.
38 ABpositive : Well spotted! KLM airline DOES NOT exist any longer. Air France-KLM incorporated are one company which fly their planes under two difference brands,
39 ANstar : Very misleading - the pic is the skybed which is only on A380's The text underneath says it is on A330, 747 etc etc
40 SCL767 : KLM is STILL the oldest airline in the world still operating under its original name. KLM is a subsidiary of the Air France-KLM Group!
41 QFYMML : It's semantics, but - the Skybed product is QF's International J product and it most definitely is available as stated. But you're quite right, the 1
42 Isitsafenow : What you kiddies did not know was the second part to this phase in the late 60's and thru the 70's when PA dumped a few 707's around the world...dump
43 QANTAS077 : 110%..KLM was also flying from a base in New York during WW2 as well as Asia.
44 ERJ135 : Merger Air France-KLM On 30 September 2003, Air France and KLM announced that they would in future be known as Air France-KLM. This entity was offered
45 SCL767 : The name of the Company (or entity) is Air France-KLM; and both Air France and KLM are independent subsidiaries of the Air France-KLM Company. Theref
46 FlySSC : By the way, Air France was formed on OCTOBER 7th 1933, almost 75 years ago. Then, its "independent identity" will not be anymore guaranteed. : - KLM
47 FlySSC : As there is no precise rule to define exactly the requirements needed to be "the oldest airline", they can claim whatever they want : Some Will say i
48 Post contains links NYC2theworld : The reason for this is the ownership/control structure of AirFrance-KLM in order to preserve KLM's landing rights based on the fact its' the flag car
49 PU803 : PLUNA, the national airline of Uruguay starts its operations at 1936 (November 20, 1936) and still flying (http://www.flypluna.com/seccion/2/Historia.
50 SW733 : Yeah, I kept seeing this one in China and Hong Kong SAR last month...and all I could think was "Wait...what about KLM??" I was constantly wondering h
51 Ikramerica : Nor does the fact that QF and KL are so old mean anything today, either. Different planes, different routes, different owners, different management,
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